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Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > April 2004 > job prospects for CS major
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job prospects for CS major
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| bobattopsail 2004-03-17, 12:22 pm |
| Hey guys,
How are the job prospects for a guy with a BS in Computer Science??? | |
| Spides 2004-03-17, 12:39 pm |
| The qualification sounds great, what experience do you have............that is what I would be more interested in........ | |
| Taqwus 2004-03-17, 3:52 pm |
| You might want to get your A+ cert at least, that seems to be the only one worth anything | |
| jarbob69 2004-03-17, 5:05 pm |
| Computer Science is more of a software engineer's degree where I'm from. So I would think you would be lined up for a gig writing software. If you want to get into networks or PC/Server administration, you need to supplement your degree with some other training. | |
| smrkdown 2004-03-17, 9:31 pm |
| I'll be finishing my associates degree in a few months. I decided to go for a two year degree in favor of a four year degree because I can "major" in networking (CIS). I would like to have a bachelors degree only because alot of jobs require them as a minimum qualification but it seems to me that every CS degree is four years worth of programming, computing theory, and mind-numbingly crappy classes. I'm going for my CCNA next week so I'll have an AST Degree, A+, Network+, and CCNA when I enter the workforce. I'll think I'll stop with that and work on the hands-on aspect of the field. | |
| bobattopsail 2004-03-18, 1:29 am |
| just to let you know, my AAS is in computer networking and I have A+, MCP,,,
3 yrs as comp tech at a comm College..
BTW,,, which has gotten me nowhere :l
so i went back to school............ | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-18, 2:28 am |
| I'm close to getting my Associate's degree in Information Technology also.
But I've noticed from my research that 90% or more of the companies out there want a Bachelor's degree for an entry-level job, when the applicant has little to no prior experience. And even those jobs seem to be far and few between.
I have seen maybe 2-3 job ads in the past 6 months looking specifically for someone with an Associate's degree and little to no prior experience. So needless to say, I'm moving on to my Bachelor's once I'm done with the AS, because I would like a job someday lol.
If anyone thinks I'm wrong, please write me with the good news! | |
| Spides 2004-03-18, 5:01 am |
| quote:
I'll think I'll stop with that and work on the hands-on aspect of the field.
Yep smrkdown all the letters in the world won't mean much without that beautiful thing called experience.....good luck with CCNA, been there got the scars.. | |
| bobattopsail 2004-03-18, 11:54 am |
| I think companies want a BS applicant because with computer science you have to take all these flowchart and algorithm classes, not to metion the calculus to give you some real problem solving skills..
but with an AS it's like "you know alittle cisco" woopdeedoo | |
| smrkdown 2004-03-18, 12:12 pm |
| I had advanced math courses in high school... And I've never used them since. You could slap a mathematician down in front of a Cisco 7200 and he'll be about as productive as a cotangent. And flow charts don't get routers communicating. The only reason they (employers) ask for Bachelors degrees is because it shows that you've worked towards something, not becuase it shows that you know anything. I've also seen techs in the field who have no formal education aside from maybe high school, who will be more proficient and knowledgeable than most school-taught people. I'm not saying that Bachelors degrees are useless, only unnecessary. I've seen people with current Bachelors degrees working in pizza shops and in factories doing manual labor but I have never come across any CCIE's in those places though I will keep my eyes open.... Talk about run-ons and misplaced modifiers. | |
| mikop 2004-03-18, 12:33 pm |
| technician, meet engineer. | |
| bobattopsail 2004-03-18, 2:00 pm |
| that's a good point but i don't see any Engineer graduates working at mcdonalds.
Most people that have low gpa's and don't care about being professional (bad interview) seem to end up without the job..
The degree seems to get you an interview, What you do with it is up to you, and Half the us population has a computer certification nowadays, and half of them are unemployed.. | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-18, 2:03 pm |
| Smrkdown, so you are saying that someone with a CCIE should have no trouble finding work, with or without a degree? I am just trying to understand where you're coming from.
If there was actually a certification that I could get RIGHT NOW (that didn't require time in the field in order to sit for it)and get a job, I would start studying for it in a heartbeat. But I search three national job sites 4-5 times a week to get a feel of what the market's like, and I almost NEVER see the minimum requirement as "certification, no experience neccessary".
I have heard that the ability to pass Calculus for Engineers or a BSCS doesn't neccesarily make a person a good IT professional. But that is what most employers are looking for with the higher-paying, entry-level positions requiring little to no experience. If anyone knows of an employer that hires based on certs only, please let me know! | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-03-18, 2:11 pm |
| quote:
The only reason they (employers) ask for Bachelors degrees is because it shows that you've worked towards something, not becuase it shows that you know anything.
Smrkdown-
You could say the same thing about certs. A cert doesn't really mean you can do anything. It just shows you have dedication enough to get the cert.
But that's not what hiring managers focus on during the interview. If you made it to the interview stage, they are mainly determining if you would be a good fit into their company- i.e. does your personality match theirs. You might be asked technical questions (I never have.), but they aren't focusing on the content of the answer, just the way to talk to them.
Don't be nervous, don't be arrogant, just be personable, honest, and professional.
An experienced hiring manager won't expect you to know everything about the job. They want to hire someone that has room to grow.
Having a degree and/or certs shows them you have the discipline to learn.
Just my opinion.
Hope that helps. | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by curiousgeorge
If you made it to the interview stage, they are mainly determining if you would be a good fit into their company- i.e. does your personality match theirs. You might be asked technical questions (I never have.), but they aren't focusing on the content of the answer, just the way to talk to them.
Hope that helps.
That's it. | |
| smrkdown 2004-03-18, 8:12 pm |
| I'm not claiming a degree or certification to be a guarantee as far as getting a job. I think experience is the key ingredient along with personality, dependability, etc.. I'm only using my degree and certifications to get me in the door so to speak.
As far as certification not showing that you know anything, I'd have to disagree in some cases. I doubt anyone could pass the CCIE hands-on lab if they didn't know their way around Cisco equipment. | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-18, 9:14 pm |
| Does anyone know which programming certifications are in highest demand right now?
I read Microsoft's newsletter, and it said people that know C++ are currently the most sought after. But has anyone seen a C++ cert? I haven't. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.
I just want to focus on getting the most valuable certs first, since the exams are pretty expensive. | |
| bobattopsail 2004-03-19, 12:17 am |
| There are no programming cert's that I know of.
But what i'm trying to say is that getting a cert can be done by reading a book alone, no hands on needed....
Now a guy that has a degree, sitting in class with hands-on experience and their teacher giving out grades has an edge. | |
| smrkdown 2004-03-19, 12:58 am |
| Please point me to the book that will enable me to pass the CCIE Routing and Switching lab. Maybe if I sit in school another two years I'll be able to? 
Maybe it's different at your school, but at my college, the teachers with Bachelors degrees are bumbling idiots who misinform the students on a dialy basis. They read a paragraph out of the book to the class, pause for a minute to try to understand it and then proceed to try to explain it to the class and you know they've never heard those terms before in their life. The only qualified (actually over-qualified) instructor at my school is our Unix instructor who has no formal education. I'd rather read a book on my own and teach myself than be read to by underqualified instructors who can't make heads or tails of the information that they are presenting. When I'm at school, I feel like I'm rotting. | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by ITMom28
Does anyone know which programming certifications are in highest demand right now?
I read Microsoft's newsletter, and it said people that know C++ are currently the most sought after. But has anyone seen a C++ cert? I haven't. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.
I just want to focus on getting the most valuable certs first, since the exams are pretty expensive.
Programming certs are worthless. programming is much too complicated a task to be able to be realstically evaluated by something as simple as a standard test. | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-19, 2:10 pm |
| quote:
I read Microsoft's newsletter, and it said people that know C++ are currently the most sought after. But has anyone seen a C++ cert? I haven't. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.
I have 5 years of paid work experience with C++, and there's not much demand for it.
A CS degree, however, is a good stepping stone to a career (provided that it isn't left too late). For example, one young lady I know majored in CS, and is now in medical school. Within a few years, she will be in that category of citizens colloquially referred to as "the most ambitious," and will be earning a six figure salary.
By itself, though, a CS degree isn't worth much, unless the holder is brilliant. As has been noted here, many holders of CS degrees are employed in menial capacities, due to the wide-ranging glut of IT skills on the market.
RD | |
| Taqwus 2004-03-19, 7:16 pm |
| So is it really worth it to get a degree and what are the difference between them like CIS, MIS, CS, BSIT, CNET
Also, I have had a recruiter mention getting certified in C++ to me | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-19, 7:35 pm |
| Microsoft had a couple of certifications available for Visual C++ 6, but they were more oriented towards developing Windows applications than using the language itself. | |
| bobattopsail 2004-03-19, 8:01 pm |
| ok first of all, how many CCIE do you know? ever met one? No,,, only the smartest of the smartest can get that type of cert, and the people that do have it are already working in that area...
what i mean is that - certifications mean you know one thing (windows, cisco, whatever..)
having a CS or engineering degree can open your job prospects up to everything from electronics, power companies to engineering tech or even management... A CS major has many more options than just programming in C++...
I believe certifications are good if you are already in the field,,, if not - you need a degree and/or alot of experience to get a job doing what your cert is for.... | |
| smrkdown 2004-03-19, 11:19 pm |
| I think Burger King is hiring. | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-20, 2:07 am |
| You left out Arby's, Wendy's, Dairy Queen, and last, but not least, McDonald's. | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-03-20, 5:30 am |
| Network Administrator at McDonalds
-Seemlessly integrate a multiplatform of burgers, fries, and shakes.
-Able to program a cash register
-Subject matter expert in DT/IP protocol (Drive Thru/ In Person)
-Extensive knowledge of DT/IP filtering (Will this be for here or to go?)
-Extensive routing experience (route to bathrooms, playground, or tables)
-Tabletop support for 800 users on a daily basis
I guess that's how a 25 year-old who claims they have 10 years of IT experience justifies it.
 | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by curiousgeorge
Network Administrator at McDonalds
-Seemlessly integrate a multiplatform of burgers, fries, and shakes.
-Able to program a cash register
-Subject matter expert in DT/IP protocol (Drive Thru/ In Person)
-Extensive knowledge of DT/IP filtering (Will this be for here or to go?)
-Extensive routing experience (route to bathrooms, playground, or tables)
-Tabletop support for 800 users on a daily basis
I guess that's how a 25 year-old who claims they have 10 years of IT experience justifies it.
You're giving people ideas here.  Then again when an employer wants someone with 10 years administering a Windows 2000 network, what can you expect? | |
| bobattopsail 2004-03-20, 11:43 am |
| you guys are friggin hilarious...
everybody seems to love McDonalds around here... | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-20, 1:02 pm |
| Hahaha-- too funny! | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by bobattopsail
you guys are friggin hilarious...
everybody seems to love McDonalds around here...
I prefer Red Lobster personally. | |
| Kasor 2004-03-20, 11:21 pm |
| experience and career path is very important for CS major...
what u really want to get out from CS major?
U need to pick a specific area to master | |
| donroper 2004-03-22, 9:51 am |
| Education alone won't do. Certs can help if you don't have experience. Experience is great if you can get it........
The following is a great story....
IT manager, 15 years experience in networking, server OS's & programming, AAS, BS, MBA, A+, N+, MCP, CCNA. Worked for a large company for 10 years. Left the big company right before it went out-of-business(can you say NAFTA). Started at different type of company. Does everything with help from 2 techs. Programs, designs and maintains networks, maintains and upgrades server OS's (Netware, Win2003,Linux,OS400),Web stuff, upgrades and repairs 175+ PC's, etc, you name it.
This in addition to budgets, managing, other administrative stuff. Overworked, underpaid and really just underappreciated (normal for IT nowadays)
The guy's been looking for 2 years. He's sent out HUNDREDS of resumes and networked, networked, networked. Got maybe 4 replies in 2 years; 2 actual interviews. Both companies OUTSOURCED the IT department within weeks of the interview. Outsourcers are paying slave wages (10-14 per hour)and offer NO benefits. And this guy is sharp. I wish I had his creditials.
Maybe it's time to start looking in a different field. I hear the medical field needs people. | |
| smrkdown 2004-03-22, 10:20 am |
| I think sometimes luck has something to do with it. Not that I believe in luck but being in the right place at the right time helps. You always hear about experienced people who are underpaid but then you also hear about underexperienced people who luck into an overpaying job. I just hope my college's guaranteed placement doesn't include fast food establishments.
Add On:
No offence to anyone currently working in the food services arena | |
| LadyTechie 2004-03-22, 3:02 pm |
| ---------------------------------------------
Maybe it's time to start looking in a different field. I hear the medical field needs people. [/B][/QUOTE]
---------------------------------------------
Honestly for those who are unemployed and looking for a job plus IT experience, if you are willing to go back to school for a 2 yr RN. You can become an informatics nurse. All they do is implement network in health care facilities. JOB SECURITY. Plus if you need extra money you could always work through a pool | |
| jarbob69 2004-03-23, 12:26 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by donroper
Education alone won't do. Certs can help if you don't have experience. Experience is great if you can get it........
The following is a great story....
IT manager, 15 years experience in networking, server OS's & programming, AAS, BS, MBA, A+, N+, MCP, CCNA. Worked for a large company for 10 years. Left the big company right before it went out-of-business(can you say NAFTA). Started at different type of company. Does everything with help from 2 techs. Programs, designs and maintains networks, maintains and upgrades server OS's (Netware, Win2003,Linux,OS400),Web stuff, upgrades and repairs 175+ PC's, etc, you name it.
This in addition to budgets, managing, other administrative stuff. Overworked, underpaid and really just underappreciated (normal for IT nowadays)
The guy's been looking for 2 years. He's sent out HUNDREDS of resumes and networked, networked, networked. Got maybe 4 replies in 2 years; 2 actual interviews. Both companies OUTSOURCED the IT department within weeks of the interview. Outsourcers are paying slave wages (10-14 per hour)and offer NO benefits. And this guy is sharp. I wish I had his creditials.
Maybe it's time to start looking in a different field. I hear the medical field needs people.
Where is this guy located? Things have slowed down in my neck of the woods but nowhere near that badly. | |
| DivxGuy 2004-03-23, 12:37 pm |
| Maybe the Seattle area? I read in The Seattle Times a few weeks back that aggregate IT employment in the Seattle area had fallen from a peak of 62,000 in 2001 to 52000 today.
It's also terrible here in Vancouver, where there are six qualified people for every open position, and the qualifications listed for this person wouldn't stand out from the hordes of desperate wannabes. | |
| onoski 2004-03-23, 12:45 pm |
| Most employers in the UK emphasize more on ppl with MCSE or MCP status. Just currently got a role didn't even make mention of my high university IT qualification only the MCP. It's all about persistence, kinda like how desperate are you. It ain't going to come to you you've got to go for it. If you don't someone else like me would take ur spot but on a serious note it is tough out there but not impossible to land an IT role. Stop looking at the negatives and look for the positives. Best wishes to all those still seeking an IT role and don't give up, pls don't. Remember nothings easy in life. Gone are the days of a job for life too. No one is indispensable. Cheerio and keep hussling. | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-24, 1:55 am |
| >>Stop looking at the negatives and look for the positives. Best wishes to all those still seeking an IT role and don't give up, pls don't. Remember nothings easy in life. Gone are the days of a job for life too. No one is indispensable. Cheerio and keep hussling.<<
Well said, Onoski. Thanks for the uplifting words. | |
| securelockdown 2004-04-02, 11:04 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by bobattopsail
Hey guys,
How are the job prospects for a guy with a BS in Computer Science???
bad. |
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