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Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > March 2004 > Appeal To All Indian Nationals - Please Don't Bring Down The Salaries Rate
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Appeal To All Indian Nationals - Please Don't Bring Down The Salaries Rate
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| haseeb_eng 2004-03-15, 1:13 am |
| Hi,
I just want to shed some light on the job market. Where ever you apply job the HR department will tell you " we can get the professional with the same expertise like you with less salary so you are asking too much salary " i dam care about this because the experience i have belongs to the country where i live currently.
I am preparing for CCIE lab exam and was expacting atleast 250% raise after passing CCIE lab exam (this is what CCIEs making these days)but the company got some CCIEs from india for the time being(never mind) but their salary is just 60% more to my current salary, and i think so if i clear my lab exam my company won't offer me more then that. This is just a small example i had saw many similar/different cases over here. I am not afraid of getting paid less but i want to convey my message to all indian people " please don't try to get low paid salary job. Before you move to a new place investigate about their salary ranges otherwise market will never come up "
If anybody disagrees with me then you can comment on this. | |
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| laugh
I am sure somewhere in India a ccnp is bitching about some Pakistani ccie who are willing to undercut his wage...
And somewhere in Western Europe a ccie is complaining about all the Eastern Europeans who are willing to work for less...
And in all of USA various ccna... or even net+ are complaining about all the British, Indian, Pakistani, and Chinese ccies who are taking their job for less or just complaining to the next candidate who are without children to feed and is willing to forgo that extra 5K in compensation that are being negotiated...
... and everyone in CA/NY are bitching at everyone in midwest America who think 6 figures is a lot so they move here, undercutting us all only to realize that they can't live on 100k... Just as I am sure that there are some up and coming kid somewhere in rural pakistan who is willing to do anything just to get out of their village... and the economic disparity between rural and city life is greater there than in the US...
... and I am sure all Pakistan, India, China and various other countries are bitching at America because it is able to entice the best minds of their country to work for not Nationalism or other idealism, but for pure hard currency...
and that ccie probably will take offence to your statement that you don't mind being pay less even after achieving ccie status because your goal is greater and you are willing to pay the buy in. I suspect that they would urge you to not undercut their wage because you want to get the experience... To them it is probably not an issue of geography and origin...
and of course all of these are just as valid when reversed... where exactly do we draw the line of fairness? If we can buy a car cheaper at the store next door, why am I shopping here? if others are able to sell it and still remin in business for that price, am I being rob by paying this amount? and when all your customers do their shopping at the other store, does it call for cost cutting, improve efficienty or a change business practices? Perhaps there is simply a need for adjustment in the market so it would accurately reflect the current environment... after all, my 200 dollar stock is trading at 3 dollars just 3 short years later...
ain't this fun? | |
| haseeb_eng 2004-03-15, 7:07 am |
| My dear let me tell you something in Pakistan CCIEs are making more then CCIEs in USA and not only me many other even arabic, american and british professionals also
admit this. This post was not for the poeple trying to get their feet into the IT field. Offcourse they will be willing to have internships but i was pointing more towards experienced professionals.
Personally i don't care whether a company offers me 300 % more salary or less then my current salary. I have the confidence and i know my market value. And i am really proud that i belong to a country which is having few rural areas. Atleast we don't attack a country to snatch their wealth and OIL by calling it "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION"  | |
| Dr. C 2004-03-15, 10:28 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by haseeb_eng
Atleast we don't attack a country to snatch their wealth and OIL by calling it "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION"
So far that oil has been slow in coming. | |
| Spides 2004-03-15, 11:12 am |
| quote:
I am not afraid of getting paid less but i want to convey my message to all indian people " please don't try to get low paid salary job. Before you move to a new place investigate about their salary ranges otherwise market will never come up "
Haseeb_eng what world are you living in, some of the things you come out with are unbelieveable....
quote:
I am preparing for CCIE lab exam and was expacting atleast 250% raise after passing CCIE lab exam (this is what CCIEs making these days)
250% raise, are you on uncut Heroin!!!! I can't help humbing the SuperTramp song to myself..............."Dreamer, nothing but a Dreamer.....can you put hand on your head oh.............."
quote:
but the company got some CCIEs from india for the time being(never mind) but their salary is just 60% more to my current salary
Welcome to the real world......... | |
| curiousgeorge 2004-03-15, 12:22 pm |
| haseeb,
Aren't you the one who has been interviewing for a teaching job??
Instead of complaining, why don't you just be happy for others. And be happy that you MIGHT increase your own salary by 60%.
Anyone who complains about the prospect of getting a 60% raise isn't going to get any sympathy from me.
The company that hired the Indian CCIE's isn't the only one in Pakistan. Go find a job somewhere else and stop crying like a little girl. | |
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| haseeb_eng 2004-03-15, 11:52 pm |
| Guys you totally misunderstood what i am trying to saying. You are missing the point. I am very happy with my current job and salary and curiousgeorge why should i be unhappy for others job ? Others are not going to feed me or provide finance for my needs hah. My faith is that whatever money/food GOD has decided to give you in your whole life you will get it either this way or that way but offcourse you should not give up and keep trying. So whatever a person is making is given by GOD you and i can't do anything about it. THE POINT TO START THIS POST IS TO REALIZE SOME IMPORTANT FACTS WHICH COULD BRING DOWN THE MARKET AND I BELIEVE SO THIS IS ALSO ONE OF THE MAJOR FACTS.
Spides would you like to give more brief explanation whatever you are trying to say? Is there something wrong discovering the company's past histrory and their salary ranges ? And yes it is 250% raise infact it is 300 plus (this is the minimum and i believe so if you are ambitiuos you had a right to dream too) And i told you my story to give just a small example. | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-19, 4:32 am |
| I hope the US anti-outsourcing legislation in the passes.
Instead of worrying about lowered salaries/wages and raises, you will be worrying about less work outsourced to you and your country from the US, because those IT jobs will stay in the USA where they belong. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by ITMom28
those IT jobs will stay in the USA where they belong.
Just curious, but what makes you think these jobs "belong" in the US rather than anywhere else? You guys think you are better or something? IT jobs are not a constitutional right, you know. | |
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| ITMom28 2004-03-20, 1:26 pm |
| No, Americans are not better at all...
But we have a duty to our children to make America a better place for future generations.
As it stands, if outsourcing is allowed to continue at the current rate, 300,000+ more jobs (mainly technology jobs) will be sent to foreign countries before 2007. Clearly, if something isn't done to at least slow it down, it could get way out of hand.
Large corporations get so many tax breaks.
Part of the idea behind that is that they will use that money saved to grow and create more jobs for Americans.
Banning outsourcing is unconstitutional.
However, stopping companies from being able to use state or federal funds to fund outsourcing, or giving companies that keep jobs in the USA tax benefits that outourcing companies can't get, isn't.
Go Kerry. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by ITMom28
No, Americans are not better at all...
But we have a duty to our children to make America a better place for future generations.
As it stands, if outsourcing is allowed to continue at the current rate, 300,000+ more jobs (mainly technology jobs) will be sent to foreign countries before 2007. Clearly, if something isn't done to at least slow it down, it could get way out of hand.
Large corporations get so many tax breaks.
Part of the idea behind that is that they will use that money saved to grow and create more jobs for Americans.
Banning outsourcing is unconstitutional.
However, stopping companies from being able to use state or federal funds to fund outsourcing, or giving companies that keep jobs in the USA tax benefits that outourcing companies can't get, isn't.
Go Kerry.
This goes both ways . . . a lot of jobs have been insourced to America as well. If you start urging your legislators to engage in protectionism, other countries are likey to follow, which will cost us business as well.
And as for telling companies who they can and can't employ, that seems rather fascistic to me . . . however if the government decides to start giving Microsoft a hard time for employing foreign labor, the people of America will pay for it one way or the other.
The fact of the matetr is that we live in a global economy whether anyone likes this or not. Deal with it or get left behind. | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-21, 5:48 am |
| Tell that to the thousands of experienced, educated technology professionals who are out of work right now, or working at McDonalds. | |
| Dr. C 2004-03-21, 10:02 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by ITMom28
Tell that to the thousands of experienced, educated technology professionals who are out of work right now, or working at McDonalds.
Well, sorry but all I have to say to that is tough shit. There are plenty of jobs here, you jyst have to look harder or be more qualified to get them. If you can't cut it move out of the way for people like me who can. No one ever promised you that you would always get what you want. If you want to try to make laws that guarantee the right of the less competent and overpaid to get jobs at the expense of those better qualified, in the end you'll pay for it. | |
| Dr. C 2004-03-21, 10:03 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
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| charlie130 2004-03-21, 12:26 pm |
| Instead of infighting, why cant we organize as a union not only to protect our profession's compensation, but also to setup qualification standards to certify member skills? We have no strength as a profession when all we do is XXXXX about how we are underpaid or underemployed. The employers have all the power in this and we have little or none as individuals. I have seen little or no discussion, much less action toward improving our "hand" as a group. Maybe the "UNION" model is one that we need to examine. I would be interested to hear everyone's opinion, including our "offshore" colleagues.
Cheers
P.S. FYI. I am comfortably employed as an IT Manager of a midsized nonprofit in the US. But I know that there is little to no job security from day to day in any organization. | |
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| Someone I worked with looked that the CCIE distrbution and told me that there were only 100 CCIEs in India. So while they might have found someone for less, they may not have been a CCIE. Remember that only cisco partners HAVE to have CCIEs on staff. | |
| sexualninja 2004-03-25, 2:38 am |
| Sorry I have just come in on the end of this one, but my take on it is a little off the track actually more to do with the outsourcing mainly by companies like Dell.
I believe they like HP outsource their help desk to india or singapore, I'm pretty sure it's singapore.
Anyway I absolutely hate this, I'm an aussie and I really appreciate speaking with people that speak ENGLISH to the point where I can UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FU%K THEY ARE TRYING TO SAY.
From say Dell's view not a bad idea, setup shop in a 3rd world country and have them read through common diagnostic/solution documents to customers. It does make sense but for the end customer this sucks big time. The operators half the time cant communicate correctly, they dont seem to be able to use any initiate, they dont seem aware of the time in australia when calling back eg trying to call back on a sunday instead of mon-fri.
But anyway as for the initial posters comment I do agree that it would be good if people could stand up and not except shitty pay, unfortunately though here in australia I am verging on doing exactly that. I work for accountants and get paid $31,000 australian dollars annually. Accountants are tight arses and I live in an area which even though is quite large there arent too many IT jobs around.
To sum up, its a problem that isnt going to go away quickly and whilever people need money to put a roof over their head and food on the table they will accept whatever they can get....thats life....and companies exploit that at times. | |
| ITMom28 2004-03-26, 7:56 pm |
| Dr. C said:
"Well, sorry but all I have to say to that is tough shit. There are plenty of jobs here, you jyst have to look harder or be more qualified to get them"
This isn't about competence or who's better. This is about GREED. This is about doing the right thing. Do you think it is fundamentally right for companies to use tax dollars (most of which is paid by middle class Americans) to send jobs overseas, so the bigwigs can get fatter and richer off of all their saved labor costs, while there are so many unemployed Americans that can do the exact same job?
"No one ever promised you that you would always get what you want."
"If you can't cut it move out of the way for people like me who can."
No one ever gets everything they want (no duh?), but you don't have to stand by like an idiot and let things continue as they are, either. Why "move out of the way" when I can use my power to vote and help change the way things are. That's the beauty of being an American.
"If you want to try to make laws that guarantee the right of the less competent and overpaid to get jobs at the expense of those better qualified, in the end you'll pay for it"
No law can GUARANTEE the rights of the less competent and overpaid. But laws can stop the greedy from using tax dollars at the majority's expense, as well as give tax incentives to the companies that keep jobs in the US.
In other words, REWARD THOSE WHO HELP THE MAJORITY AND DON'T REWARD THOSE THAT DON'T HELP THE MAJORITY.
Seems pretty fair to me! | |
| charlie130 2004-03-27, 12:18 am |
| ITMom...Just wanted to give you a big AMEN...you have the "fire in belly" they always talk about...
It seems that you and I have lost our audience...the room seems awfully empty, quiet and unresponsive...
I got literally no responses concerning organizing as a profession...(I think I will start a new thread since this thread was probably the wrong one for the subject I raised)
so it seems there are a few talkers, and even fewer doers...
Cheers,
charlie130 | |
| haseeb_eng 2004-03-28, 2:06 am |
| Charlie i do agree with your comments you had make previously |
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