| Author |
youngster needs help
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| ne0-reloaded 2003-08-22, 7:05 am |
| whats the most desired field in IT thats not programming? is it wireless technology, security, voip (dont know what it entails but ive been hearin a lot bout it)? any help would really be appreciated. Also ive been reading many posts saying how bad the pay is for ppl in IT, but when i look at monster.com, i see jobs in the 55k+ range with only like 2 years of exp and a bs. am i missing something or have just been reading posts from ppl who just not making a lot right now?
thanks in advance
also, consultants ive heard make mucho dinero, how would one become one? thanks | |
| bloodshotx 2003-08-22, 8:48 am |
| Some jobs are like that. I think the majority of the people on here don't have a 4 year degree.
This forum has lots of new to the industry people. Meaning the majority on here are trying to get entry level positions not middle career positions.
It's to my understanding that if you have a bach/masters degree with a good deal amount of certifications/experience you should have NO problem in making 55k+ a year. I know a good deal amount of people that make 6 figures in the IT field. All have high end degrees with years of experience.
To be a consultant you must master what you are consulting in. It depends which field you want to go into. Security is a big thing right now. It seems like you are younger person so I would recommend going into the basics right now.
General Guidline to security field.
Hardware>Networking>Software(OS's)>Routers(Cisco)>Hacking(know how to and maybe test on your OWN systems)> Security
It will become like second nature how to protect against vulnabilities if you know how someone is creating and exploiting them.
P.S. There is a reason why I am not an english major | |
| ne0-reloaded 2003-08-22, 8:15 pm |
| thanks bloodshotx, i was gettin really nervous bout my future, but you've given me some valuable insight. I was up all night last night trying to figure out what route i should take (fell asleep at bout 7AM). I want to take a vendor neutral approach (not just know how to work with cisco and windows), but not sure if that would be a good idea. In regards to what you said about security, are they're any security certifications i should be pursuing (i know bout security+, but is there others)?
thanks again | |
| bloodshotx 2003-08-22, 10:27 pm |
| CISP and CCIE SECURITY will net you nice incomes. Very hard to attain..and yes I would start out with security+_ | |
| adamkpmm 2003-08-25, 4:57 pm |
| CCIE is one of the certs you should have if you want to make some real cash. Though the exam does have a fail rate of 80% and the exam and lab time cost around $1500 big ones. People do reccomend CCNA then CCNP then maybe you will be ready. Thats after the studing of coarse. http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/62...paration.html#1 might help. | |
| MKeill 2003-08-25, 5:53 pm |
| Ne0 reloaded:
I think the vendor neutral approach is smart, grated there are plenty of folks who have the MCSE, they have chosen to specialized, I would consider looking at the NACSE ( National Associaton of Comminication of System Enginners) they have there own vendor neutral certifications, not focusing in just Microsoft or Cisco. There certifications are granted, however its the person's responsibility to remain updated on technology, you must recertify every year.
Check them out at www.nacse.com | |
| ne0-reloaded 2003-08-25, 10:40 pm |
| i know the ccie is a guaranteed money maker (around 100k a year), but im just getting into IT so im nowhere near ccie; besides im only 20. when i start school next month. im gonna have my ccna hopefully. while there im gonna get my net+, serv+, mcp, and possibly sec+. The only reason Im getting my ccna is to be a good candidate for an internship, adn only reasin im getting the other Comptia certs is a resume filler for when im done wit college. although a vendor neutral approach is good, from thinking about it and looking at what enployers are looking for by checking out monster.com, they are very vendor specific. When I go for my MCP, im taking the 70-217. Why? Becuase in the networking field Active Directory competency seems to be a silent rule. | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-01, 9:03 pm |
| The most desired field outside programming is security ..
Mind you, that might involve programming.
If you are a good mathematician then maybe you could devise a method of encryption that is uncrackable.
Chances are that this is highly unlikely. | |
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| I think it would be rather difficult to go totally vendor neutral. Being vendor neutral means you are familiar with concepts and not specific workings of an operating system. Let's face it about 80% or more of the market is MS, so that has to be a must for a course of study. However I would also supplement that with a CCNA. This cert is vendor specific, but it also introduces a lot of industry jargon and introduces you to IP addressing and subneting which is critical for any study path. Also learning security also means learning Unix to some degree. Learning security means learning security of a whole networked environment, meaning routers,vpns,servers and physical security. I would think that it would take you a good 2-3 years to get familiar with the various OSes and related hardware.
The CCIE would be great if you had a few years experience behind it. The CCIE without any experience won't get you that far. I couldn't see anyone in their right mind giving someone a job at that level with no experience. If you are doing CCIE type work, that means you are doing some very technical work for telcos or large companies. I think that may be a reason some people may feel there is no money in it. They get an MCSE(paper, no experience)and expect to start making 50k. Again, who in their right mind would unleash a paper MCSE on a network? Network administration is a very technical higher end job. I don't think you would want this job without experience. There is a tone of stuff involved. Your best bet would be to work with a NetAdmin and learn from their experience. I also see people asking about Unix/Solaris certifications. These OSes usually run mission critical applications, again, no way are you going to touch a system like that without some experience.
I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, however you do need to be realistic. Security is a great field, but remember you are building a career which will take a few years. If you can augment your certifications with a University/college degree then all the better. I don't think there are any quick roads to money/success. It's just good old fashioned hard work and effort. If you try hard and work hard you will probably succeed. | |
| Helen of Troy 2003-09-04, 3:04 am |
| You know dek you are just barking up the wrong tree ..
I appreciate however what you are saying though generally these are simply wasted words.
Security is an interesting problem which I am currently addressing on and off ..
I read your comments and they were sufficient to be interesting.
Thank you! | |
| HappyTom 2003-09-04, 1:56 pm |
| I thinks that DEK is right in what he is saying about the vender natural certs. If their is a job posting for a Linux Red Hat admin and you had a comtia linux+ or LPI, these are great certs but the Red Hat cert is better for that case. Employers want to know that you can step into a new job and work on the system that they have. Taking vender neutral certs gives you the concepts of the technology but not the nuts and bolts that employers are looking for. The job marked is flooded with many IT people looking for jobs, you will want to have a better edge over them with certs that are specific.
With the security you will have to know Unix, LAN and WAN technologies, scripting (Perl, VB, JAVA) programming (C, C+) Windows networking and others. This is a hard thing to get into because you will have to take your work seriously. I am in the security business and this is a 24 hour job, and learning process. I am reading all the time (at lease 2 hours a day) to stay current with what is happening in the computer world.
Being an independent can make lots of money but you will have to factor in Medical, 401k and that you earn no $ for sick time and vacation.
If you want some advice get into a job that they will cross train you and that people around you will share their knowledge. I learn more things on a daily basis by the people that I work with.
Good Luck
HAPPY | |
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| "You know dek you are just barking up the wrong tree ..
I appreciate however what you are saying though generally these are simply wasted words."
Helen why do you think these were wasted words? Also I didn't quite get the metaphor about barking up the wrong tree. I was giving my two cents for the young lad that asked for it.. | |
| bloodshotx 2003-09-05, 11:48 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by dek
The CCIE would be great if you had a few years experience behind it. The CCIE without any experience won't get you that far. I couldn't see anyone in their right mind giving someone a job at that level with no experience.
Well, as I see you have your CCNA. However, the CCIE is 100x harder than the CCNA and I think its rather dumbfounding to think of someone with a CCIE with no experience. In fact I would like to meet someone that has never had any IT experience with a CCIE. | |
| mindmesh 2003-09-05, 1:12 pm |
| My personal opinion is that if you want to be in IT your not going to be able to stray too far from Programming. Maybe if you admin MS products but with Linux/Unix if you administer you are expected to know how to atleast write scripts.
Security is a good course of action but beware that it IS NOT easy. Before taking the CISSP most are recomending atleast 5 years admin experience w/ Security. CCIE is damn near impossible with out having practical experience on a cisco network. Also, expect to be in school/classes or self educating for the rest of your career. Things change daily and in security you have to keep up with those changes more so then an admin would.
I would go for Security as a long term goal but work on getting down the basic and admin certs over the next few years. Being only 20 you have plenty of time but like myself have jumped into a flooded market.  I love what I do though so I stick around.
Just an opinion | |
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| The reason I made a remard about a CCIE without experience is because I know of at least two people who have self studied the CCNA,CCNP and CCIE without practical experience. One works for a telecommunications company and the other works for EDS. However the only work one of them does is with a lower end broadband type Cisco router and the other one does absolutley nothing with routers. So folks this does happen. I guess my point was that it would be a good idea to have experience to back up your paper credentials. | |
| mindmesh 2003-09-06, 11:16 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by dek
I guess my point was that it would be a good idea to have experience to back up your paper credentials.
Definately... | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by dek
The reason I made a remard about a CCIE without experience is because I know of at least two people who have self studied the CCNA,CCNP and CCIE without practical experience. One works for a telecommunications company and the other works for EDS. However the only work one of them does is with a lower end broadband type Cisco router and the other one does absolutley nothing with routers. So folks this does happen. I guess my point was that it would be a good idea to have experience to back up your paper credentials.
How can someone become a CCIE without practical experience? "maybe BigMac jackiechan"
To pass those eight hour lab exam you must be real good but first you have to passed the written exam and with no practical experience wow!!!
Yes Bloodshotx I also would like to meet someone that has never had any IT experience with a CCIE!
Maybe after or before his CCNA and CCNP he has a profesional IT job and then after 2 or 3 years passed the Lab and become a CCIE and then you can do everything you like. (even become a waiter or waitress but don't forget to recertify)
By the way to become a CCIE you don't need CCNA or CCNP, but that would be stupid.
According to cisco:
Certified CCIEs are an elite group. Less than 3% of Cisco certified professionals become CCIEs. Find out about Cisco's entry-level Career Certifications (eg. CCNA and CCNP).
Passing the exams is not easy. Hands-on experience is the best preparation.
CCIEs have a lot invested. Candidates devote considerable time and money to pass the exams. |
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