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Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > May 2003 > India as threat to IT industry for other counteries ??
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India as threat to IT industry for other counteries ??
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| kumar2k 2003-04-24, 11:40 pm |
| Hi all
I live at Bangalore ,India and have been working in IT for last 8 Years.
I have witnessed All the Major US and MNC migrating their back office operations and call center operations in India.
Does it feels like India is posing a Threat to IT workers in those counteries.
Please feel free to post your comments in a positive sense ( +ve and -ve effects.).
I am really sorry if somebody is hurted by posts at this thread.
Kumar | |
| onoski 2003-04-25, 8:30 am |
| Why don't you use your time wisely to study and gain more knowledge. Moreover, the reasons why companies are outsourcing to India is because it is cheaper. Unfortunately we live in a dog eat dog world, to companies its all about cutting cost and improving profit margins. Best wishes in your IT career  | |
| TK-421 2003-04-26, 7:16 pm |
| I agree. A friend just lost his IT job because his department was moved to India. It's a shame that companies are worried more about money than the people who are helping them to make that money. | |
| Kasor 2003-04-27, 11:25 am |
| Cheap labor, low pay, good job...
No need to worry about stupid local law, as management point of view.
Do you want to do that, too?
Govn't shall control the issue, but they didn't..... | |
| DivxGuy 2003-04-29, 3:43 pm |
| Apparently IT wages are soaring in India, causing the outsourcers to seek greener pastures of cheap labor elsewhere.
The spectre of offshore outsourcing casts an ominous pall over the future for U.S. IT workers, and it is a big reason why I wouldn't recommend the field to newcomers.
RD | |
| sean34 2003-05-02, 5:14 pm |
| quote:
I am really sorry if somebody is hurted by posts at this thread.
Well from the looks of it we will all be gleefully employeed as English teachers 
later tough guy,
Sean | |
| darthw 2003-05-03, 11:01 am |
| quote:
Well from the looks of it we will all be gleefully employeed as English teachers
Sweet. I actually have a Bachelor's degree in English/Speech, so, now I can mix my IT experience with teaching foreigners how to write and speak. | |
| Randhir 2003-05-03, 6:29 pm |
| Hi guys,
I am smelling few people burning themselves due to outsourcing. I am happy as they have outsourced to India and provided me an oppertunity to work on major network projects without leaving India. | |
| Randhir 2003-05-03, 6:54 pm |
| Hi Kumar,
I respect your experience.
Can you please let me know, which project you are working with | |
| DivxGuy 2003-05-04, 3:31 am |
| The following appears courtesy of www.zazona.com.
==============================
==========
3/18/2003
German 'green card' ruling
The German "green card" is a work visa that is similar to H-1B. The German government decided to stop issuing work permits known as green cards. The National Association of Software and Service Companies (Nasscom) complains complains that this will hurt Indian companies. It appears that workers in Germany "just said no" to nonimmigrant workers.
3/10/2003
TATA Designs Unemployment System
TATA announced that they designed a computerized unemployment claims system for New Mexico. It's quite ironic that a company that gets rich off replacing American workers with the cheap young blood of indentured workers on H-1B and L-1 visas, is now developing the unemployment systems that the Americans will file their claims with. | |
| LioKaiser 2003-05-07, 7:26 am |
| Man, things is getting even worse.
Quote from USATODAY.com:
"Nearly one in four large technology companies surveyed said they had already outsourced technology work to foreign countries, and an additional 15% of large technology companies said they were considering a similar move within the next year."
Heres the link:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2...tech-jobs_x.htm
-LioKaiser. | |
| Carl_Docklands 2003-05-07, 8:27 am |
| I think there needs to be a clear distinction here between what kinds of work the Indians are doing.
Most of the oursourcing up until now has been for call centre work.
Hands up all here who want to work in a call centre..........
OK
Secondly, the companies who are outsourcing stuff like programming, from what i hear, are coming unstuck, due mainly in part to poor standards and technique of the indian guys.
Dont get me wrong, some of the most intelligent, switched on guys I know and work with are Indian, but they are here (in london) for a reason and thats because they are generally better than the guys left back home.
And as for the government intervention, well dont forget when it comes to money, our governments are switched on. They usually let something reach a critical mass, than tax it  | |
| jackiechan 2003-05-07, 10:10 am |
| Eastern countries stealing jobs from western countries. | |
| limsam 2003-05-08, 12:31 am |
| Also western guys steal jobs from eastern conterparts!
Peace.
I am not against anyone talented getting a suitable job anywhere. But, I dislike the 'go with the wind attitude'. This is like 'all the companies are hiring foreigners, so we also will hire them no matter how bad or good they are. | |
| Luchnia 2003-05-08, 4:36 am |
| What if the the IT jobs in India were outsourced to the US? Now $$$ makes the difference, we have become gluttons in this country and yet we balk when the jobs are outsourced!
It is ironic for sure, but how long will we continue to think without understanding what brings these things about? I work with some that are from India and I am amazed at their work ethic. Day-to-day they work with good attitudes, compasion, and strong willingness to learn and do a job well.
Rarely can I find that with workers from this country. That saddens me and I feel that should concern us when we think about our country's jobs going to outsources. | |
| Carl_Docklands 2003-05-08, 10:09 am |
| Lets not forget that the one, single driving factor behind the outsourcing is pure greed. It has nothing to do with skills, colour or race. | |
| limsam 2003-05-09, 3:50 am |
| Lets not forget that the one, single driving factor behind the outsourcing is pure greed. It has nothing to do with skills, colour or race
Agreed! Greed but pure greed. Some big man wants to show cost-savings and take a big pie for himself and his cronies. | |
| sujithjm 2003-05-09, 4:52 am |
| Hi,
Dont be stupid to say indian work is not up to the standard. Then why would Oracle cut 400 short in US and take 4000 new people in India last year?.
Also did anyone know 33% of Microsoft employees are Indians??
Now tell me whether India is not a threat or not.
Sujith Mathew (Obviously form India ) | |
| onoski 2003-05-09, 5:01 am |
| Originally posted by sujithjm
Dont be stupid to say indian work is not up to the standard. Then why would Oracle cut 400 short in US and take 4000 new people in India last year?.
Also did anyone know 33% of Microsoft employees are Indians??
Now tell me whether India is not a threat or not.
Sujith Mathew (Obviously form India )
Point taken, but are you part of this 33% of Microsoft's employee? | |
| limsam 2003-05-09, 11:49 pm |
| No country has a better talented people or worse talented people that the other. There are experts in all the countries, so from India also. Same way there are dump persons in all countries.
The matter behind the hirings is 'low cost' | |
| kumar2k 2003-05-11, 5:45 am |
| Intel, the world's largest chipmaker, is developing the next microprocessor in its Xeon range at its centre in Bangalore.
Shall I say something more !!!
Cheers !!!
kumar | |
| kumar2k 2003-05-11, 5:48 am |
| The Bangalore centre is also engaged in designing and developing high-end, 32-bit Intel architecture microprocessors for servers and large computers
kumar | |
| kumar2k 2003-05-11, 5:53 am |
| Steve Mills, Senior Vice-President and Group Executive, Software Group, IBM Corporation
visited bangalore last week and IBM is setting up biggest BPO in india (Till now GE is the biggest followed by Dell , Compaq , HP etc.)
Global chips design and developer company ST Microelectronics's R&D centre will be the company's largest facility outside US by December this year when the centre touches a professional strength of 1500 in Delhi.
Great news ....
kumar | |
| kumar2k 2003-05-11, 5:56 am |
| The American concern over India’s skilled labour force seems to have spilled over to manufacturing from software services and BPO.
No, its not traditional worries about low-cost goods or low wages, but about high-quality goods made by high-skilled workers in this part of the world. Add to that, an acute shortage of skills in the US, expected to touch 10 million by 2020. The US manufacturers appear to be already feeling the pinch.
A white paper released last week by Deloitte & Touche, a business consultancy, The National Association of Manufacturers and The Manufacturing Institute of the US says, “The greater challenge to America is not low-cost goods from low-wage producers in developing countries, but rather it concerns high-quality goods made by high-skilled workers in advanced and emerging economies.”
“The potential exists that manufacturers will increasingly move production operations overseas to seek the technological talent that is being strategically and purposefully prepared in places like the European Union, the Pacific rim (including China) and south Asia (particularly India) — if they cannot find this talent here”, the study, entitled Keeping America Competitive: How a Talent Shortage Threatens US Manufacturing, says.
The study fears that US manufacturing sector may run out of talent, with the skilled ‘baby boom generation’ set to retire in 15 to 20 years on one hand and the current generation not keen on this sector for a career option on the other.
“Demographic shifts portend great change ahead. The ‘baby boom generation’ of skilled workers will be retired within the next 15 to 20 years. Currently, the only source of new skilled workers is from immigration. The result is a projected need for 10 million new skilled workers by 2020,” it says.
Interestingly, the present generation in the US does not see manufacturing as an attractive career option. The group conducted two qualitative researches recently to find, “The sector’s image was found to be heavily loaded with negative connotations and universally tied to an old stereotype of the ‘assembly line,’ as well as perceived to be in a state of decline.”
“When asked to describe the images associated with a career in manufacturing, student respondents offered phrases such as ‘serving a life sentence,’ being ‘on a chain gang’ or ‘slave to the line,’ or even being a ‘robot’,” the study said. It blames the US education system to an extent for this negative perception.
The study quotes an earlier survey according to which more than 80% of the large and small manufacturers polled reporting a moderate to serious shortage of qualified job applicants. The most critical shortages of employees identified were in production and the direct support of production, including engineering and skilled crafts.
According to the survey, 42.5% of manufacturers said there was a serious shortage of craft workers, 41.2% said that about machinists, 33.9% about technicians/electricians, 20% felt there was serious shortage of engineers. Compare this with only 16.7% saying that there was serious shortage of computer programmers and 18.2% saying that about IT professionals.
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| kumar2k 2003-05-11, 5:58 am |
| be back with more news.
Atleast English teacher should come back to see a job here.
Its all fair in love and war.
HA HA
kumar | |
| onoski 2003-05-11, 6:12 am |
| How old are you Kumar? I think you could do with some growing up. Remember no one is indispensable so keep laughing. | |
| limsam 2003-05-11, 10:00 pm |
| Intel, the world's largest chipmaker, is developing the next microprocessor in its Xeon range at its centre in Bangalore.
This shows, the 'outsourcing' can work anywhere. If there is cheap workforce in Somalia plus electricity and water supplies, the next outsourcing will be in Somalia.
Man, not all the people working in IT are in high tech. I know there were many cut-and -paste IT workers during Y2k. What they did was 'cut-and-work' for 8 hrs per day.
The motive behind outsoucing is 'pure greed'. | |
| featherbabe 2003-05-11, 11:34 pm |
| It is all about the money!!!!!
How much do you guys in India get paid?
Compare that to what we get paid in the US....
It is simple math!!
Don't kid yourself into thinking it has ANYTHING to do with skills...
I saw reports on this a couple of months ago......and you are just now posting on it? Have they not explained to you that you make 1/3 or less money than we do here? Maybe that is why you are just now hearing of it... your government doesn't want you to know you are being used to make them a profit!
There are PLENTY of skilled workers in the US...
It is just like all the manufacturers going to Mexico....
Hmmm...bet the person that started this thread won't be bragging when the major companies start building factories in India...polluting their country... just like they have done Mexico! And that is what will happen when Mexico is used up!
You seem to be counting your chickens before your eggs are hatched!
There is an agenda to this whole thing...and IT professionals are getting the shaft in both countries. | |
| DivxGuy 2003-05-12, 12:04 am |
| quote:
Compare this with only 16.7% saying that there was serious shortage of computer programmers and 18.2% saying that about IT professionals.
The fact that anyone in the U.S. thinks there's a shortage of IT professionals is evidence of how out of touch from reality some people are.
RD | |
| Carl_Docklands 2003-05-12, 7:26 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by kumar2k
Intel, the world's largest chipmaker, is developing the next microprocessor in its Xeon range at its centre in Bangalore.
Shall I say something more !!!
Cheers !!!
kumar
Its only for the same reason they setup shop in Ireland. Cheap labour, plenty of cheap land and accessibility of skilled people. Its a no brainer. | |
| njaffer 2003-05-12, 7:56 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by kumar2k
be back with more news.
Atleast English teacher should come back to see a job here.
Its all fair in love and war.
HA HA
kumar
Yo Kumar dude you need to understand something. Alot of people don't like the way you are throwing in other's faces. There is a saying. "Don't bark when you haven't got the whole bone in your mouth". This isn't a curse but be careful when you say next time. | |
| featherbabe 2003-05-13, 3:35 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by njaffer
Yo Kumar dude you need to understand something. Alot of people don't like the way you are throwing in other's faces. There is a saying. "Don't bark when you haven't got the whole bone in your mouth". This isn't a curse but be careful when you say next time.
No doubt!!!!
What happens when these companies get boycotted...and force them back into their rightful place?!!!!!
This next statement may piss some people off... but I don't care.... kumar is rude, arrogant, and apparently wants to argue...saying Indians have better skills and produce quality products...so apparently he is blind... anyway here it goes...
Kumar,
India is one of the OLDEST cultures on Earth.... they could have ruled the world! But why didn't they?
Lack of brain power and inability to compete!!
And that is evident by the fact that you can't see that you are getting paid pennies on the dollar compared to what we make! That you can't see the only reason you have a job is because you will work for scrap!
Us Americans have a saying....
What goes around comes around!
And you are definitly speaking too early.... LOL...what happens when they move to another country because those folks will work for even less than you!!!
Do you realize that birth defects went up massively in Mexico when our factories moved in there.... and that is because Mexico doesn't have the environmental laws that US does...(there are babies being born with no brains) and I don't think India has those laws in place either.... is that what you want for your people? If so you too are running on pure greed!!! | |
| brianferry 2003-05-13, 5:01 pm |
| Anyone with half a brain should have seen this coming a long time ago and done something about it to invest in their future. Firstly outsourcing overseas has been going on for over a century for all industries. Nothing new there. Secondly, once it becomes cost effective big business is ALWAYS going to consider doing it. Instead of accumulating more and more certs and taking sideways jobs and trying to grab more bloated salaries some folks should have concentrated harder on getting the sort of skills and experience that was going to keep them employed. Instead the 'base' of IT skills has just broadened and that's always the place that gets hit hardest when outsourcing comes around. So lots of folks simply managed to get more certified in being, and more experience in being..ordinary. There has been plenty of opportunity these last four years to get the experience if you went after it and plenty of opportunity and resources to learn voice, security, unix, messaging, cisco yada yada. Not easy but do-able. Yes you may have had to gamble on a job change, yes you may have had to take a pay cut, but if you want the skills, knowledge and experience to invest in YOUR future that's exactly what you should have done. F**K the industry. Work on what you CAN control.
Yes employers now are asking for a lot in terms of skills and experience. What did you expect? It's 2003 for crying out loud!Deal with it. Avoiding SQL server as an elective for your MCSE isn't going to help you because employers want you to know about it, and Exchange, and Linux/UNIX, and firewalls and Cisco and everything else.
There are and will always be jobs available at 'home' and smart people will be nicely positioned to get them no matter what goes overseas. | |
| kumar2k 2003-05-13, 10:11 pm |
| Ping Moderator !!!
Requesting site moderator to close the thread now as it is not helping either way.
If you have seriously read the first comment
itself by onoski , then we could have saved our precious time. Thats why my reply came back so late in this thread just to see whats happening there.
_____________________________
Why don't you use your time wisely to study and gain more knowledge. ...........
______________________________
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Sorry guys , my intentions were not bad when i started this thread but as some guys gone on head-hunting , i have to respond that.
I agree that job created at one corner of globe is the job lost somewhere and is not goiong to help the society.
I pray to God for all the IT industry a better future.
Thanks to evryone who participated in the thread.
Will come back with some good and positive thread.
kumar | |
| limsam 2003-05-14, 12:11 am |
| Kumar,
You have to understand in general, you (Indians) are no worse than anyone else and no better than anyone else in other parts of the world. | |
| Deja-vue 2003-05-14, 12:30 am |
| I see India has already produced a Baby without a Brain.
kumar2k is living proof of it.
| |
| featherbabe 2003-05-14, 11:41 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by kumar2k
Ping Moderator !!!
Requesting site moderator to close the thread now as it is not helping either way.
If you have seriously read the first comment
itself by onoski , then we could have saved our precious time. Thats why my reply came back so late in this thread just to see whats happening there.
_____________________________
Why don't you use your time wisely to study and gain more knowledge. ...........
______________________________
__
Sorry guys , my intentions were not bad when i started this thread but as some guys gone on head-hunting , i have to respond that.
I agree that job created at one corner of globe is the job lost somewhere and is not goiong to help the society.
I pray to God for all the IT industry a better future.
Thanks to evryone who participated in the thread.
Will come back with some good and positive thread.
kumar
Its all fair in love and war.
HA HA
kumar
You got really nasty.... did you just expect everyone to sit back and take it? Now that the heat is on you want the moderator to close the thread? I don't think it quite works that way!!!!!
Quoting you "Its all fair in love and war."
LOL...to brianferry...there are some of us that have the brains to carry on in the IT industry... what this thread amounts to is the Indians coming on here bragging that they are taking our jobs...TRYING to rub our noses in it and getting put in their place! And you are right... everyone should keep their skills marketable...
Not sure if you aimed the base IT skills and ordinary remark at me... Yes the only certification I hold right now is A+.... but that doesn't mean that is all I know! It means that I am not "f**cking the industry"...but that I am watching it to see which way I want to go!! I could go get my MCSE right now... but do I want to spend the money on certifications that EVERYONE has... I think not. I am blazing my own trail...just like many other people here...and doing a damn good job... my employers are VERY happy with me! And I am making just as much as people with massive certifications...because I didn't "f**ck the industry". I rolled with it and looked ahead of it!
If you don't watch the industry you become obsolete really fast! | |
| brianferry 2003-05-14, 2:00 pm |
| Good luck to you. Good attitude. As for f**k the IT industry what I mean is don't waste effort worrying about what you can't control. Instead, learn LAM, mobile IP, IPSec/VPN or asymetric routing amongst other things. I have the day off work. It's late here and I'm still learning which is why I still have opportunities. I could play the Xbox but I would rather work on multihoming scenarios or learn Avaya. I'm sick of hearing 'IT Pros' XXXXX about the way things are. Your users have Natted Linux firewalls at home now. That doesn't mean they understand more than before, but their awareness is higher than before and their technical expectations of you. Deal with it, learn something difficult and try, actually try to be as good as you really think you are. Forget the 'game', forget 'gerry' on tv, read the Cisco Internetworking Overview, or Parker, Stevens, Kwok, Stallings, Doyle, or whatever takes your fancy. Just stop moaning.
Good luck to the Indians. We are talking about a tiny percentage of their population getting these jobs. They work hard. Sure some XXX***es crow about the fact they are over there and have jobs. Ignore it. Anyone been to Delhi lately? Lots of people with lots of problems. Took notice of what you wear, what you eat, what decorates your house? Chances are it's made in countries by people that have a life you wouldn't even understand. Doesn't stop you buying a Big Mac though does it? That's why you can afford an Xbox. Base jobs are going over there. Don't be base line. You got an education, you CAN afford to eat, you got clean water, you got a home and 60 channels. Try harder. | |
| jonhiker 2003-05-15, 3:43 pm |
| IT jobs going overseas, as pointed out earlier, are just one of many jobs that have left the US and gone. Just like clothing and manufacturing. It's due to the cheap labor pool and lack of safety & environmental regulations.
My clothes were probably made in SE Asia, from my tie to my socks. I'd by americanc made, but I doubt if there is such a thing in wearable textiles, anymore.
Someone aslo said"who wants a helpdesk,call center job?" How do you think a lot of techs get started, do they walk in and start loading software, building the network, and other duties? Nope, help desk,customer service,cleaning printers, and showing someone how to print to the right printer.
The jobs sent overseas are probably lost for good. That means creating new opportunities or adjusting skill sets to meet current needs. | |
| brianferry 2003-05-18, 5:07 pm |
| I agree. Helpdesk is where you start. Schmucks still think braindumping to MCSE or worse CCDP is going to get them work. It doesn't. Experience is what gets you hired. Helpdesk always has been and always will be the first step. The problem today though is progression, getting OUT of helpdesk into roles that give you experience in stuff that gets you on. With outsourcing and the 'tech on the phone' model its increasingly hard for a helpdesk guy to get the chance to build a server much less re-engineer a network or even get a piece of the action. MCSE, CNE and Cisco cover lots of design requirement for their exams but the opportunity to do that kind of work and apply that knowledge are diminishing and without it, people are helpdesk fodder no matter how many certs they have. The trick is to pay your dues in helpdesk same as anyone else but SEEK the job change that will give you some exposure to hands-on experience. This could be a small shop that has switches, routers, a website, a firewall, SQL server and Exchange server that need maintaining even Voice or UNIX or Oracle. You may have to take a pay cut *gasp* to take that job. Take it. You may have to move state to take that job *gasp*. Take it. Until you actually do these things for yourself and get experience in these things you remain ordinary. Two years ago a slew of ordinary certs and ordinary experience got you work. Now employers expect people to have diverse skill sets, experience and aptitude to learn new stuff with no training quickly. Keep studying too the latest stuff. | |
| huntert 2003-05-25, 1:12 am |
| Its funny how kumar thinks that we think ppl from india are the best techies.
Grow up and understand that your people make penuts for a salary and what US company wouldn't want to get ahead "financially" by outsourcing. Enjoy your pay raise from $1 per hour to $2.50 |
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