|
Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > April 2003 > Companies are asking for too much!
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Companies are asking for too much!
|
|
| exar07 2002-02-02, 9:28 pm |
| I usually dont like to whine but I was checking jobs sites to see what companies are paying and expecting us to know.
It is CRAZY! Companies are wanting us to know everything and pay us less. I like the IT field because it is challenging but it is getting unreal these days.
These companies want a Database, networking with NT-Linux-AS400-Novell, programming in 3 different languages, ecommerce expert, web developer and a college grad for just over 45k a yr in most states.
Are you kidding me!!!!!
Am I alone?????????? | |
|
|
| Nicole 2002-02-02, 10:06 pm |
| It doesn't seem much worse than it used to be, except for the dropping salaries. The ones that ask for the world are usually recruiters -- they take the "wish" list and make it a list of demands. | |
| mrfixit 2002-02-02, 10:06 pm |
| Yeah, it's kind of like Real Estate. You have some months when it is a Buyers market, and others when it is a Sellers market. Right now in the IT industry, it is the Employers that have the edge, because of the glut of certified people looking for work. Give it some time, and it will most likely flip back to out favor, (I hope). JMO | |
| PotatoHead 2002-02-02, 11:58 pm |
| i agree it seems like to get $30k - 40k - you have to know everything from databases to networking to web development. | |
| aneesh_bhatia 2002-02-03, 1:14 am |
| Ads like these are mostly by recruiters or even companies who would like to have someone with ALL those skills BUT even half will do!!!
I once got a call from a recruiter who saw my resume, I went for the interview and got the job. Later on when i saw the ad, i was shocked!! The skills requiment list was so daunting, i would have never applied for the job, it required C++, some energy management software and some other stuff i had never heard of. But I still got the jobs and learnt it all on the job (not C++, they did not even require it for the work!! GOD know was it was listed on the job requiremnt)
So I guess these guys try to cram the requirment list with everything and then see what they can get! | |
| jackiechan 2002-02-03, 3:10 am |
| Why should an employer demand less. We dazzle them with our certifications yet some cannot do what they put on their resume. So of course its is employers beware. It use to be: mention a few technical words on a resume to a non-IT person and they think you are a computer whiz. It is payback by the employers to idiots that masquerade as IT professionals and there are lots of them around. Even you are reading this post. | |
| mrfixit 2002-02-03, 10:00 am |
| Employers shouldn't expect less, and neither should the people that have been out in this industry for any length of time, (and even those that haven't). This problem is not about certificates flooding the market, although they are, it is about the economy. Jobs are scarce, especially in the IT industry, and people are getting downsized all over the place(we have lost over 500 jobs where I work!). The companies that are advertising these positons "beef" up these postings in an attempt to "weed" out the undesirable candidates. It is all about the bottom line, they know they have an edge, and they are going to use it.
JMO | |
|
| Oh! Well...
American company standard policy mean = cheaper labor but over qualify worker
 | |
| likuid 2002-02-03, 9:50 pm |
| You gotta roll with the changes,specifically economic ones, but don't despair. Think of this as a purification period. Tech skills are not everything to an employer. You're work ethics, communcation skills, and teamwork ethics are just as important. Although you might have half the list of skills you might still get the job based on other criteria, As for the pay, you can think of a strategy to increase it while you're there. Write down your successful projects and point out good reasons as to why you need and deserve a raise. obliously no company is going to give you 60 or 70K starting with out proof. just like certification work your way up one step at a time. | |
| xtremeICT 2002-02-04, 4:18 am |
| quote:
Why should an employer demand less. We dazzle them with our certifications yet some cannot do what they put on their resume. So of course its is employers beware. It use to be: mention a few technical words on a resume to a non-IT person and they think you are a computer whiz. It is payback by the employers to idiots that masquerade as IT professionals and there are lots of them around. Even you are reading this post.
From JackieChan
I simply must agree with you! Far too many IT'ers put things on their CV to impress onlookers, but actually cannot perform the tasks sufficiently enough...
In the european market the same things are happening but I feel for different reasons...The market for the employee has become more flooded, but at the same time the market for the employer has become more permanent...lett freelancers, and more permanent people...THeir wish list here seams to be just as high, with eaqual demands but salaries definately vary from company to company.
It seams that in most cases if you know what is reqired of you on a premanent basis you will be paid accordingly, but for smaller companies, that demand just as much, you will not be paid as much...but will probably also not stick around for too long.
With the market here most people will take on lower income positions to gain necessary knowledge to get better jobs, and therefore accept the lower income for the gaining of knowledge as long as it is not for too lengthly a period.
Good luck to all those in search of a well paid employment! | |
| limsam 2002-02-04, 9:14 pm |
| It is CRAZY! Companies are wanting us to know everything and pay us less. I like the IT field because it is challenging but it is getting unreal these days.
I agree 100%. I see funny job vacancy advertisements like this
5 years NT/Unix experience . MCSE prefered
5 years Oracle Database administration with certification.
hands on AS400
Should write Perl/Java scripts
4 years Novell Netware experience in a multinational company- CNE preferred
Citrix experience a must.
Cisco router configuration (CCNA preferred)
Able to program in C/Java (!!!)
4 years desktop support experience
Plus, I saw the usual things (Must be innovative, a team leader, proactive thinking) added at the end.
What a f***? | |
| NickL 2002-02-04, 11:49 pm |
| {{{I agree 100%. I see funny job vacancy advertisements like this 5 years NT/Unix experience . MCSE prefered 5 years Oracle Database administration with certification. hands on AS400 Should write Perl/Java scripts
4 years Novell Netware experience in a multinational company- CNE preferredCitrix experience a must. Cisco router configuration (CCNA preferred)
Able to program in C/Java (!!!)
4 years desktop support experience
Plus, I saw the usual things (Must be innovative, a team leader, proactive thinking) added at the end. }}}
Lots of Luck finding this "ideal candidate". But what's worse, is that entry & junior level IT positions (particularly in programming) require 2 or more years experience similar to the above.
So, where are all the recent college grads who spent 4 years on a BS in Computer Science getting jobs(those with no experience)?, nevermind those of us taking the certification route?
Or maybe these recent grads (those with no experience), and their parents must finally wake up & realize that there is no place for someone in IT without 2 or more years of experience, and that it is time to move on to a different field of study and career.
A four year piece of paper is not much different than a certification, and it certainly will never compensate for any hands on experience gained outside the classroom. | |
| mrfixit 2002-02-05, 8:03 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by limsam
It is CRAZY! Companies are wanting us to know everything and pay us less. I like the IT field because it is challenging but it is getting unreal these days.
I agree 100%. I see funny job vacancy advertisements like this
5 years NT/Unix experience . MCSE prefered
5 years Oracle Database administration with certification.
hands on AS400
Should write Perl/Java scripts
4 years Novell Netware experience in a multinational company- CNE preferred
Citrix experience a must.
Cisco router configuration (CCNA preferred)
Able to program in C/Java (!!!)
4 years desktop support experience
Plus, I saw the usual things (Must be innovative, a team leader, proactive thinking) added at the end.
What a f***?
Have seen similiar adds, only the clencher was that you either had to have a BS or Masters degree to get the job. And starting salary was like 35K - 40K DOE!! Are they for real?????? | |
| onoski 2002-02-05, 8:52 am |
| Jackiechan's post reply sound's like a repeatedly disappointed job seeker. All I can say is that it is true that employer's are seeking for a jack of all trade and hence why they get a master of none.
The law of economics states that when supply exceeds demand, then there would be a surplus of the later which is the case. Just like everything in life it reaches a saturation point and almost die's out. But as long as the market remains the way it is for now then employers can afford to be forcee. The bit that really annoys me are the agency IT sales people that call themselves IT consultant without a clue of the definition IT. They are just a bunch of arrogant liars and sales sweet talk individuals. Keep the knowledge pool flowing and don't give up even if you're thinking of giving up, nothings easy in life it's a continuous struggle. | |
| onoski 2002-02-05, 9:38 am |
| I quite agree with the post, it is stated in economics that when supply exceeds demand this leads to a surplus drastically resulting in a reduction in price. Well, in this case it's not quite a price issue as there are a lot of well deserved qualified IT people in the IT field.
Owing to the current global economic crisis this has lead to companies downsizing and cutting cost mainly affecting mostly their IT infrastructor. I don't agree with what "Jackiechan" stated in he's post, as everyone is entitled to study for a certificate either through one of either of these routes. Just because there is a flood of influx of people taking certifications does not and shouldn't give anyone the right to think why should they. There is a lot of envy especially regarding certifications.
Employers do not just take into account your technical abilities, but other issues such as personality, team spirit, communication and determination to learn. I do not think there is someone out there that knows it all, life is all about a continous learning process.
Just be confident and keep gaining more knowledge the best way you see fit because at the end of the day time would tell if you can put your theories into practice. More knowledge people and keep going even if you think it's not worth the hassle, life ain't easy the struggle continues just like Bill Gates. | |
| eric1971 2002-02-14, 1:41 pm |
| I saw a job posting asking for 5 years experience using Windows 2000 and Active Directory. Is it just me, or is this impossible? | |
|
| eric1971, you should reply to the job post and tell them that you've been using Windows 2000 since 95', so you easily exceed the requirement. | |
| jackiechan 2002-02-17, 9:12 am |
| Or tell them that you are outgoing in a interview with a clueless I.T recruitment agency. | |
| foggy 2002-02-17, 11:52 am |
| Try using a microwave PC,it can give you 5 years experience in 10 minutes.
Regards,Foggy. | |
| mrfixit 2002-02-17, 4:17 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by tree
eric1971, you should reply to the job post and tell them that you've been using Windows 2000 since 95', so you easily exceed the requirement.
Yeah, maybe they'll get the hint. (Subtle as it is.) | |
| RichardJW 2002-02-21, 6:38 am |
| Hi there guys, need to see something post but actually I think that companies will be shooting themselves in the foot with current salaries unless the appropriate adjustments are made with the changing market though hard feelings may still remain. | |
| RichardJW 2002-02-21, 6:58 am |
| Has anyone ever thought of throwing in a few, well let's say "embellishments" on their CV in order to land that interview? A poll for which I cannot check the source suggests 33% of CV's contain such. | |
| RichardJW 2002-02-25, 7:59 am |
| Hmmm...now where did that source go again? I'm sure I put it down around here somewhere. Must have just missed it. | |
| RichardJW 2003-03-02, 4:51 pm |
| Who is Nicole? Who really is she? Is she Secret Agent? Does she have a hand in mikeop? She has lost the beauty stakes and come second. But who really is she? A Hollywood actress maybe ... | |
| limsam 2003-03-03, 2:33 am |
| This saturday I saw an advertisement sth similar. (advertised by Volvo)
(1) NT/2000 experience 5 yrs- MCSE preferred
(2) Novell experience- 3 yrs- CNE preferred
(3) AS/400 experience
(4) Cisco router configuration- CCNA preferred
(5) SQL database tuning, optimising, and programming
(6) C++ programming
(7) Citrix experience- CCA preferred
(8) Firewall experience- Checkpoint, PIX
(9) Troubleshooting PCs, PC OS installation
(10) solid Linux, Solaris experience
(11) Office 2000 training experience
(12) and more follows
I guess, they will hire a LIAR. | |
| luisjo 2003-03-03, 8:19 pm |
| and i have the idea that if i have the following cert i would be over certified,
mcse,mcsa,mcp,net+,inet+,serve
r+,security+,linux+,ccna,ccda,
ccnp,ccdp,ciwp,ciwd,ciwsp.
Now i have to study a little more to be mcse 2k+3 and mcsa 2k+3, besides of some certs in oracle, sun, as/400(when i study as/400 there where no certs), God help me my wall aint big enough to hang all these certs, and get paid 40,000 a year, Damm, even for my country thats too cheeeeeaaaaap, im planing on having a job that pays like 200000, the year, i know im runing for president. | |
| eyeccd 2003-03-04, 12:11 am |
| yeah, that's how it is nowadays. Even with everything you can see I've got(to your left), I have an appointment week from this Saturday with local american express office to look into becoming finacial advisor. Would mean passing NASD Series 7, series 66 licesne exams, and also state insuramnce exam. Est. cost $1000-$1500. If I join american express as a direct hire, they pay for all classes; if I fail exam (6hours, via Promteric; exam costs around $1000) then they terminate me.If I join on my own, and self-study, then I qualify for a hiring bonus, wich would cover the cost of the exam and classses. To everything else i have now, I would add 3 more letters: CFP (Certified Finacial Planner). Sigh. | |
| cruss575 2003-03-05, 4:18 pm |
| A CFP is actually quite a valuable certification and represents a great deal of hard work. I took (and passed) the NASD exam, but the CFP is supposed to be much harder.
Most of these jobs are sales jobs, though. cold-calling and sales calls will probably be a large part of your job. That's a pretty big career change. | |
| Tekmazter 2003-03-17, 8:28 pm |
| BUMP
???? | |
|
| Sometime, those recuriter or HR people don't know "S***" about their job and what their company looking for.
Some idioit always got a job because of luck, but some don't.. | |
| limsam 2003-03-24, 10:56 pm |
| Here in Singapore, last week I saw a job vacancy asking for 5 years of solid AD design experience! | |
| tedd07 2003-03-27, 8:23 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by exar07
I usually dont like to whine but I was checking jobs sites to see what companies are paying and expecting us to know.
It is CRAZY! Companies are wanting us to know everything and pay us less. I like the IT field because it is challenging but it is getting unreal these days.
These companies want a Database, networking with NT-Linux-AS400-Novell, programming in 3 different languages, ecommerce expert, web developer and a college grad for just over 45k a yr in most states.
Are you kidding me!!!!!
Am I alone??????????
| |
| tedd07 2003-03-27, 8:28 am |
| I agree! I feel the same way when looking at ad's. There are so many aspects of I.T. that if you want to make it in the biz, you cant spread yourself too thin. I think these co.'s are going to find it hard to fill such a position and end up re-writing the ad's to be less demanding. My guess is that these are small co.'s that have a 1 or 2 person I.T. dep't. and have to squeeze all these different "jobs" from one position. A large co. would have the #'s to ask for more specialist as opposed to the "general" IT staff position. | |
| limsam 2003-03-27, 6:39 pm |
| I agree. But, before they realize that their expectation is too hing, they would have hired a liar!
Next, it is not just the small companies that are asking for too much things. The recruitment companies also are clueless. If they hear some words, they will ask for it.
Example: If they know just the word 'AS400' they will put it as a requirement without even knowing what it the requirement) is for. | |
| onoski 2003-03-28, 3:57 am |
| Originally posted by limsam
I agree. But, before they realize that their expectation is too hing, they would have hired a liar!
Verty true, hence I have now stopped using recruitment agencies. Only,if I really have to as they are not worth the hassle.
Next, it is not just the small companies that are asking for too much things. The recruitment companies also are clueless. If they hear some words, they will ask for it.
Companies of all sizes are playing this too.
Example: If they know just the word 'AS400' they will put it as a requirement without even knowing what it the requirement) is for.
I think they are trying to impress the client at all respects. A very wrong mentality. In a nutshell boycott recruitment agencies and apply direct to the company if possible. Best wishes guys and gals and don't let this put you off as when the going gets tough only the tough gets going. I know it's not easy but don't give up your hard work and interest for IT for those low level IT sales jokers. | |
| Snowblind 2003-04-05, 8:23 pm |
| So true... I've been certified for 1 year now and I had several interviews with no luck. I have found that an MCSE is basicly an entry level job. Here is Southern California they start at around 25K to 30K a year. This is a big drop in pay for a truck driver. I've had a few bits since I've put my resume on Monster.com. Try it. I've been called by a company in Florida which has given me some contract work. The problem is the pay is from $18 to $25. Try getting some Cisco certs like CCNA and CCNP. This is a big jump in pay. | |
| mijimoe 2003-04-06, 12:21 pm |
| It is indeed a tough market but there are always positions to land out there...sometimes we have to give a little in order to get into a company and then be hopeful that the future will bring us to a place where we will attain that $$$ amount we are looking for subconsciously. There is a fine line I have began to notice that you need to have the right combination of certifications and yet at the same time you dont want to over-do it too much (unless the company is paying for the education - then ok) with a plethora of certs. Look at what you really want to do and then focus all your attention and energy towards attaining that goal via researching market trends, employer expectations and by the advice of some of the "guru's" in the industry. | |
| groversyck 2003-04-20, 12:28 am |
| In reference to the 5 years W2K experience, I saw an add recently wanting 10 years W2K experience.
I think the HR department flunkie is wiriting the adds. If it sounds like you mignt like the job, go for it. You might find someone with intiligence.
But then again, the line that never was mignt apply. "Beam me up, Scotty. There is no intiligent life here".
Grover Syck
gsyck@cinci.rr.com | |
| eyeccd 2003-04-24, 2:30 pm |
| It sure is an employer's market. I had a friend one time that went for an IT job. He didn't get it because they wanted him to have a degree in Accounting(!!!!) Sheesh.
I just finished my 75pg. Final report to earn my Bachelor's degree in MIS from an online school in California. Now that that's out of the way, I'm getting back into the certification thing. Looking for somewhere I can study for the Citrix CCEA and my Cisco CCDA. Also Novell CNA. Has anyone ELSE noticed that once you have the MAJOR stuff out of the way, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to find even any BOOKS on the stuff? The ONLY book I've been able to even FIND for the CCEA is the ExamCram little red thing that's pretty much obsoete, I think. It covers Citrix exams 910 through 950. Anyone know where else to study for CCEA and CCDA? BESIDES www.citrixexperience.com that is.  |
|
|
|
|