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Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > March 2003 > Companies that ask for too much.
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Companies that ask for too much.
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| aslee0 2003-03-08, 9:57 am |
| In response to a VERY long thread (filled with complaints, whines, and excuses.)
I think its good that companies ask alot out of prospective employees...
Explaination: If a company raises the bar, it will divide the Can-Do people from the I-have-a-cert-and-nothing-else people. The people who truly want to be in this industry, for what ever reason be that money, love, or fame (ok maybe not fame), will strive to achieve what these companies expect. I dont think its unrealistic to ask for an expert in Networking, Sys Admin, Security, and programming (more of PERL and Scripts then DB) and an expert will have(probably) all the corresponding certs, CCIE, CISSP, MCSE, and some type of programming cert. From their perspective, I would want to hire the best and someone who's dynamic enough to do it all, thats called a wise investment. Ofcourse a person like that should be getting paid very well.
From my own personal perspective, I wouldnt want to work with schmucks. Make this industry more professional and a little more diffcult to break into. Weed out the nondedicated, shortcut takers.
SO I say raise the bar, let the weak, fall, and have the strong, triump. | |
| onoski 2003-03-09, 6:31 am |
| Your post sounded so much like a disgruntled IT job seeker. I still say some employers are asking for too much, a jack of all trade but a master of almost none. I believe in fighting, dedication and hardwork and not short cuts however. | |
| aslee0 2003-03-09, 9:08 am |
| I'm not a disgruntled IT job seeker, I'm more of disgruntled IT Manager who had to let go 2 people in the last month because on paper they looked good but in real life could not preform their job function. Just tired of looking at the same resume/CV with different names.
A solution working for me is to raise the bar, which deters the unexperienced from even applying... Seems to be working. | |
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| I think both manager and interviewer shall make some correction on theirselves.
Manager shall state to the point on the advertisement what they looking for
Interview shall review theire skill, do not over qualify and make lie statement.
Since the job market is so bad, that it is hard to avoid the situation.
Just do the best to perform your duty. | |
| soccer4net 2003-03-10, 11:39 am |
| Maybe if managers didn't give such impossible/overkill jobs requirements, jobhunters wouldn't be so quick to falsify. Plus those of us who have integrity, won't even bother applying even if they in fact meet the REAL reqs. | |
| limsam 2003-03-10, 9:42 pm |
| I'm not a disgruntled IT job seeker, I'm more of disgruntled IT Manager who had to let go 2 people in the last month because on paper they looked good but in real life could not preform their job function. Just tired of looking at the same resume/CV with different names.
A solution working for me is to raise the bar, which deters the unexperienced from even applying
Well, everything has a limit. Raising the bar is OK. But raising the bar to a ridiculous level is NOT OK. In the latter case, only the 'cheaters' will succeed.
Only a fool will expect a CCIE to do serious C++ programming in an accounting software.
There is nothing wrong in learning multiple technology. But you cannot master all. If somebody says he is, then he is a cheap cheater.
Remember, raise your bar ridiculously high. You will hire some 'joker' only. Genuine experts will laugh at you and will not apply.
If you want real experts, have a 'technical' interview. Do not throw foolish and typical questions like 'tell me your weakness, tell 10 adjectives that describes you' etc. Ask good technical questions. Remember, even an expert cannot reply all peculiar questions. But while you interview, you will pick an the real expert, provided that you are smart. | |
| onoski 2003-03-11, 4:07 am |
| Well said limsam. IT managers should be realistic. | |
| darthw 2003-03-11, 8:03 am |
| I certainly won't apply when the bar is set extremely high, but I can also see aslee0's point.
Thankfully, aslee0 is able to get rid of his low performers. I see several individuals who have no idea what they're doing in IT who somehow remain in their positions, likely due to weak managers who won't take the initiative to get rid of them. In the meantime I know a couple IT folks looking for work who are very skilled, certified, and experienced looking all over for jobs. It's frustrating. | |
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| I agree with aslee0. Raise the bar if need be! If not, raise it anyway! Let the weak fall. I've seen to many people with jobs whine about what the can't do, and what they don't know while they sit and collect a paycheck.
I've worked hard to get where I'm at. You gotta raise the bar. If you bring in people that can hang with the people you already have, then it's not fair to either party. | |
| darthw 2003-03-12, 10:03 pm |
| Here, here, tree. I certainly agree. I've worked with too many techs that look at me as "The Golden Boy" because I continually try to learn more, certify, degree, and do my best. They think I'm doing it to make them look bad. Nope. I'm doing it to make me a better tech and increase my opportunities. And if they look bad compared to me, that's their fault, not mine. | |
| Spides 2003-03-12, 10:28 pm |
| I'm more of disgruntled IT Manager who had to let go 2 people in the last month because on paper they looked good but in real life could not preform their job function.
Why did you employ these guys, they obviously impressed you in the interview!!
Ever heard of giving a guy a chance.... | |
| limsam 2003-03-13, 7:15 pm |
| Spides, if you are an IT manager already, stop going for that stupid MCSE. It has no value. Even if you are an expert in an MS platform, your MCSE will look like a 'joke',especially when you are a manager.
These days, I am skipping my MCSE from my resume!
Well, an opinion only; if you are keen to get that paper, you can continue.
Watch MCSE 2003 is in the horizon. | |
| Spides 2003-03-13, 8:10 pm |
| Well I'm not an IT Manager, I wish. I've worked for quite a few companies and in my opinion the Manager has the easiest position. All he has to do is deligate, give out the tasks and reap the rewards. I got so far with my MCSE and I wasn't going to bother, but I am two away. I also notice you work in Singapore, well I will be working in London, and no MCSE equals no interview.... | |
| limsam 2003-03-13, 10:12 pm |
| Mm, then you must get your MCSE.
Give work to those who can work, for others give promotions. That is the motto of modern management.
And also, read below the line! You have to know some big boys/girls. | |
| Spides 2003-03-13, 10:27 pm |
| Limsam I have to agree with your bottom statement, nothing more true than it isn't what you know, it's who you know.. | |
| limsam 2003-03-13, 11:10 pm |
| Yes, I put those words sadly. In fact, I was stongly opposing it. I want the real talented people to get the smart/good/highly paid jobs. I was believing that was the case.
Times and over, I am proven wrong. I have seen enough duds getting highly paid jobs by contacts only. And their jobs are stable also, because they know the big guys.
Of course some smart guys are also getting good jobs, but again, they also mainly find jobs by contacts only.
These days (bad economy), contacts are more value than your tech skills/talents.
I wish smart/talented persons got good jobs. I can wish only. | |
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| I agree with darthw and limsam. I've been in the position of having to work with someone the management hired for one reason or another (maybe because they had connections) when they couldn't cut the mustard. It sucks when you have to carry them on your back, especially if you think they're being paid nearly what you are. Unfortunately a good deal of the hiring process in some environments does seem to be who you know.
I've also supervised people that had to go, either becuase they weren't what they advertised, or simply lacked work ethic. None of it is a fun position to be in for any of the parties involved. I can empathise with aslee0 and Spides on that. Even if they're slack, it's no fun to be the one to tell them bye.
I can say this. When I was in that supervisiory position, I never recommended anyone I knew for employment. They'd probably have just ended up hating me anyway if they had to work with me. :-) | |
| Spides 2003-03-14, 12:53 am |
| I agree totally. I ahve worked along side and below complete muppets. MCSE's who couldn't map a printer, or install a printer on a print server..... | |
| me? I dunno... 2003-03-15, 1:13 pm |
| quote:
SO I say raise the bar, let the weak, fall, and have the strong, triump.
'triump' has an 'H' at the end, and yes, I certainly am looking forward to my first IT job. | |
| iApple 2003-03-16, 10:56 am |
| I agree with raising the bar.
I think if you make the industry more competative than the Paper Certs and wannabe's will fall by the side.
I'm all for competition... Let the stong survive!
SPIDES... I totally hear you about the Muppets, theres a muppet I work with who needs to start learning somewhere else... He got the position cus of family connections but seriously he needs to start as an entry level tech rather then working on a production network. I dont wanna carry him on my back anymore, I dread seeing him and avoid him at all costs... | |
| darthw 2003-03-16, 11:35 am |
| quote:
He got the position cus of family connections but seriously he needs to start as an entry level tech rather then working on a production network. I dont wanna carry him on my back anymore, I dread seeing him and avoid him at all costs
That's got to stink to high heaven. | |
| Spides 2003-03-16, 4:24 pm |
| Yep that would drive me nuts. I'm contracting at the moment in Oz for Abn Amro Morgans, a stockbrokers. I'm on help desk but get involved with Servers. They have loads of there own applications, things like ASX Seats and Winbroker, stuff exclsive to them, stuff I don't have a clue about which I hate. I think they feel it's not worth showing me as I'm not here for that long. It's financing my MCSE so once I get that I'll return to the UK!! | |
| me? I dunno... 2003-03-16, 4:28 pm |
| quote:
I think if you make the industry more competative than the Paper Certs and wannabe's will fall by the side.
You never know, maybe he can spell... maybe you could help each other out?
Knowing the English language can come in very handy at times, particularly during job interviews.
How many mistakes are you allowed in command line syntax? | |
| Spides 2003-03-16, 8:41 pm |
| lol..........me? I dunno you got it bad but it does make me laugh  | |
| onoski 2003-03-17, 4:50 am |
| All this ranting and raving for goodness sake you guys started from some where remember. I think sometimes you should see it from an angle of giving someone a CHANCE if they are willing to learn. | |
| Spides 2003-03-17, 3:00 pm |
| PHP:
All this ranting and raving for goodness sake you guys started from some where remember. I think sometimes you should see it from an angle of giving someone a CHANCE if they are willing to learn.
Well see what I wrote earlier in this post.
I said this in a similar post saying about giving people a chance, but perhaps you should be in the other shoes. When you explain the same thing to someone time and time again, tell them to take notes but they don't, come back to you with the same problem time and time again. There was an application install we did at a place, in order for it to work the user had to be in the power users group. This guy must of done this install 30 time plus, every time he came to me telling me the same error. I'd say about the user in the power users group and sure enough he hadn't done it everytime!!!!
There are limits to patience, I quit rather than work with that guy again..... | |
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| What is the different between two forum?
Who don't want a cheap labor? |
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