| Author |
Alternative to listing every certification?
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| TJLeeland 2003-10-07, 5:10 pm |
| I have a number of certifications and plan to add a couple more by the end of the year. I've gotten to the point where I think listing all my certifications may look worse than not having any. To put on a resume:
TJ Leeland, CISSP Security+ CCSA
MCSE:Security MCSA:Security MCDBA Linux+
just looks like I'm trying too hard or that I'm compensating for something - perhaps a lack of confidence. I work for myself but I also send out resumes to clients to show them what my history has been. It's a lot like a job interview and can involve the same issues.
Having these certs are important but I'm not sure that listing them all is a great idea, yet I fear leaving off something like the minor CCNA or Linux+ in case those technologies are important to their shop. I don't always know enough about the company's infrastructure to make an educated guess beforehand either.
Any ideas on how to express a large number of certifications without actually listing them. I've thought about something like Certifications furnished upon request kind of thing but it just doesn't flow.
Anyone have any ideas? | |
| ANDRONDA 2003-10-07, 10:19 pm |
| List what is pertinant to the job. Do not list "lesser" certs if you have the ones that are higher on the chain. | |
| Boulware5 2003-10-07, 10:20 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ANDRONDA
List what is pertinant to the job. Do not list "lesser" certs if you have the ones that are higher on the chain.
For example, don't list Network+ if you are a CCNA and don't list Linux+ if you are a RHCE.  | |
| jarbob69 2003-10-08, 11:16 am |
| Most resumes I have seen list certifications near the top of the page. If your previous work experience is a very strong point for you, I would consider listing all of your certifications last on your resume. That way it wouldn't look like you were jumping up and down and pointing to paper certs as your most important credential, and you could still list all of them you wish to list.
I see the point about lesser certifications, though. No point in quoting MCP if you have an MCSE that supercedes it. I think I would still quote everything coming from unique vendors. | |
| bloodshotx 2003-10-08, 11:23 am |
| TJ
I would recommend maybe not puting all those certifications behind your name.
Create a certifications section on your resume. List everyone that pertains to the job that you are doing. Explain any special details, like where you got it from or if you created a home lab.
I have gotten alot of interviews lately and i've been turning them down because of school. But on my resume it looks like this:
Objective
Experience
Education
Certifications
And goals: this is optional | |
| Papiya 2003-10-08, 1:04 pm |
| Tailor your resume for the job you are applying for. A MCDBA may not be of much use unless you are planning on doing development or database administration. MCSE would not be particularly relevant for anything other than supporting Microsoft networks. This will allow you to focus a bit on the qualifications that are most pertinent to the job at hand.
Next, as said above, drop the "lower level" certs once you get the higher level. To me and MCSE will always rank higher than an MCSA. No point in listing MCP if you have the higher level cert. Likewise the CompTIA certs are useless if you have more advanced certs . . . Linux+ vs. RHCE, Network+ vs. CNE, no contest. Also CCNP requires CCNA, so what's the point in including the lower level certs?
Besides, if you want to, you could just mention the other certs you have in the interview. Experience is what really counts. Certs are just a nice addition. | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-08, 4:37 pm |
| Thanks everyone. The idea I like best is the section on certs near the bottom. I don't list my MCP, and if I had a CCNP I wouldn't list the CCNA, nor will I list both an MCSE and MCSE: Security when I get the latter. I do think the MCSA and the MCSE are a little different (since there's a test I had to take for it which didn't count toward my MCSE) but it's the one cert I currently list that I could lose without much problem.
Unforutately I need to list basic certs like the Linux+ and the CCNA bacause I don't have anything like them that shows a greater knowledge of those technologies.
Also, I've had the following experience a couple of times already:
Owner: We really need someone with a CCNA.
TJ: Actually, I do have a CCNA.
Owner: If you have a CCNA why isn't it on your resume (sideways look suggesting I'm lying)
TJ: It gets pretty cluttered when I add all my certifications and all the products I have experience with so I try to include the most important ones and fill in any additional information as needed during meetings like this.
This is often the end of the process. I'm frequently treated as though I'm lying, even when I pull out a copy of my cert. Of course some do buy it, but it's just frustrating to lose that percentage that doesn't.
So the goal is really this, if I don't tell them all my certs up front (which I might just do using bloodshotx and jarbob69's suggestions) how can I prepare them for the fact that not all certs are listed and that I may have more. Perhaps a combo. Maybe I'll list the most important certs in a section by itself based on what I think the company will want, then the last line could be "Full list of certifications availible upon request." Something like that.
Thanks all. | |
| plantwiz 2003-10-17, 10:42 pm |
| TJ,
And anyone with an opinion,
For your certs, what if you incorporate the logos of the ones you hold onto your document?
Certainly, typing out the certs behind your name is well earned, but couldn't you also achieve a similar goal by using the logos? The logos could be neatly listed across the bottom (footnote section) or possible down the left-hand margin creating a letter-head type page.
Just a thought from left field | |
| onoski 2003-10-18, 6:34 am |
| Originally posted by plantwiz
The logos could be neatly listed across the bottom (footnote section) or possible down the left-hand margin creating a letter-head type page.
Nice idea I like the idea | |
| jarbob69 2003-10-18, 10:43 am |
| Logos! Great idea, never seen it done before... | |
| plantwiz 2003-10-18, 12:03 pm |
| IMHO,
For TJ's case where a resume is needed like a calling card, it would seem that the logos would dress it up and present him as a business (or professional)
I have played with this arrangement for my certs and have grown to like the look. Just need to keep it from becomming too cluttered. | |
| student615 2003-10-20, 10:09 am |
| In addition to previous suggestions you can have multiple resumes that are tailored for specific position/company that you are trying to get business from. | |
| Papiya 2003-10-20, 2:49 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by student615
In addition to previous suggestions you can have multiple resumes that are tailored for specific position/company that you are trying to get business from.
I think that is probably the best solution. | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-20, 6:33 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by onoski
Originally posted by plantwiz
The logos could be neatly listed across the bottom (footnote section) or possible down the left-hand margin creating a letter-head type page.
Nice idea I like the idea
I currently have my certification logos down the left-hand side of my cover letter. There’s not really enough room on the resume itself, I’m having a hard enough time keeping it to a two page resume as it is. There's only one problem, and I don't know that it's really a problem at all: Microsoft has some stupid logo guidelines on how big the logo has to be (no less than one inch across) and how far it needs to be from other text or logos. Keeping to this guideline makes it possible to only have so many. And since the MS ones are all that big, the others would look silly, or like you're favoring MS if you made them smaller.
I don't know that anyone would ever bother to report such a misuse to MS, but there is a complaint process, so even though my logo's are a little less than one inch, they're not much less.
But it is a good look, I think especially on the coverletter. Still, I want to mention them in some way in case the cover letter isn’t included. | |
| curiousgeorge 2003-10-20, 11:38 pm |
| TJ
Why are certifications an issue if you have too much experience to fit on a two page resume? Certs should only be used to get your foot in the door. Once you're in front of the client, certs shouldn't matter.
I gear my conversations and interviews on my experience. Only once have I been asked about certifications. The guy stopped me and laughed as I was listing my seventh one. Then we talked about my experience again.
Also, I don't find any utility in getting overlapping certs. i.e. why are just now working on security+ if you already have CISSP. And once you get it, why bother listing it when CISSP is a higher security cert?
My suggestion is don't worry about your certs and worry about the conversations you have with your clients. You will win over much more confidence if you can tell them about projects you have completed using the technology in question rather than telling them you have a cert in that area.
Your certs are fine. Now focus on the next step. | |
| onoski 2003-10-21, 7:38 am |
| Curiousgeorge thanks for the insight and clarification on this issue. Experience indeed would stand out on a resume at any point in time. | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-21, 2:35 pm |
| Thanks to all of you that have offered me advice, and made suggestions. I especally appreciate those of you that took my request at face value and offered solutions to the problem instead of telling me that my problem was elsewhere.
To those that have said not to list my certification or to target my resumes: Again, thanks for the effort but my circumstance don't allow it.
Certifications hold more importance in my line of work. Clients want to be able to say to the boss, "he said he was a CCNA!" if something goes wrong. It may be a pure CYA thing on their part but I don't blame them - most of the clients that hire me don't have the knowledge to make an educated decision so they use what they can to qualify a person.
Also, business owners tend to hang out with other owners. Sometimes a friend says to them something like, "never hire a tech without a Sec+, you'll regret it!" and they don't know any better.
Targeted resumes are hard since there's no classified add or posting on Monster telling me what the prospect is looking for. Often my ONLY knowledge of the company's needs come from, "hey, my boss was just saying he needs to hire someone for the network." Try to target that sometime.
Thus I've come to you all, not for advice on which certs to use or how many to list, but because in my situation there is a real (and demonstrated) advantage to listing ALL of them, and I'm looking for a good way to do it without looking like a jackss. So far I'm favoring the sections on certs. In fact I've already added it to the bottom of my separate Skills page. I now list Hardware, Software, Technologies (such as TCP/IP) and finally Certifications. | |
| student615 2003-10-21, 6:35 pm |
| It is great decision.
On the other hand I wish I would be concerned where to put and how many certifications. I am impressed with your achievements. | |
| curiousgeorge 2003-10-22, 12:53 am |
| TJ
I didn't mean to offend you, but I don't think your certs are the issue, especially after your last post. I think it is communication.
quote:
"hey, my boss was just saying he needs to hire someone for the network." Try to target that sometime.
I would target that by simply saying, "Really? What needs to be done on the network?"
And considering you are listing your certs as the last item on a Skills page and not including them on your two page resume sounds to me like certs aren't actually that critical in gaining business.
Any recruiter in America will tell you that personality and effective communication skills are a key part of an interview process. And if a company is going to search over a two page resume full of experience and base their hiring decision on a specific cert, maybe they aren't the type of company you need as a client.
Please take the comments as constructive criticism and see the validity in them. |
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