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Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > January 2003 > Whats more valuable, a degree or cert??
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Whats more valuable, a degree or cert??
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| I'm lucky to be on a good salary, working as a Network Manager. But I still look around to see whats on the UK job market, and I'm supprised to see many jobs requiring a degree, and not so much a cert such as MCSE.
The job advert below would suit me perfectly as I have 2 - 5+ years experiance in a large organisation, but I do not have a University degree... I would of thought that an MCSE backed up by 5 years IT experiance would be more valuable than a degree?
World class blue chip organisation is currently seeking an individual to lead the systems management engineering team responsible for storage and server admin. We are looking for technical individuals with broad backgrounds and experience in a range of different technologies. Keytechnologies are Solaris, Windows 2000, Terminal Server, Citrix and Storage. Experience will have been gained in large organisations with mission critical infrastructures. You must be able to administer both Solaris and W2K boxes with Citrix, Terminal Server and experience of EMC/Veritas Netbackup.Projects include EMC, Storage Area Network implementation (Centera), Sunfire implementations, SAP. This is a leading edge infrastructure with the latest kit. A degree is essential for this position regardless of experience. Job hoppers will not be considered for this position. 5 years commercialexperience with 1 yr Team Lead. This is a company of opportunity where you can build a long term career.
Is a University degree more valuable than an MCSE then? | |
| revcop 2003-01-04, 6:44 pm |
| Get both of them.
If you can.
I think lacking a degree leaves you a little overlooked in the job market as you can already tell.
But if you can't get a degree, get a cert by all means. | |
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| Definitly degree build up your foundation of knowledge and tradition communication at the school.
Remember certification only enhance your technical skill., not to get you a job.
For high level management and technical skill always refer back to your degree. A strong background is always a safe way to build up your career. | |
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| It's interesting, but I am 26 now and left college 5 years ago. I have far too many financial ties to go to university to get a degree, so I'm just going to concentrate on achieving my MCSE, and experiance. | |
| aslee0 2003-01-05, 3:32 pm |
| You could always get a student loan, grants, and/or financial aid. THERE IS ALWAYS AWAY.
Sure you have other financial obligations as do most people so I think saying you cant afford to go to University is a WEAK excuse.
DEGREE IS ESSENTIAL. Most places I submitted my resume, when I was looking for a job, REQUIRED a degree to even be considered. And some of my friends who graduated earlier came back to my University as a Recruiter for their company and set aside the resumes of people who came to the Career fair without a degree listed. (they told me afterwards that they dont even put the people without degrees in their database, which is used for future consideration).
NEXT IS EXPERIENCE. more important then a certification is EXPERIENCE.
Then Lastly is CERTIFCATIONS. The reason I think people do CERTS are because they want to break into the business not because they need to validate themselves.
GO TO SCHOOL or atleast take some college classes/credits. And work on getting a degree no matter how long it takes. A degree IS FOREVER. | |
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| aslee0, I feel that you have insulted me by saying I have a WEAK excuse...
For starters, I can afford it. I own a large house, 2 cars and work 40-45 hours per week. When did I say I couldn’t afford it? I'm not job hunting, I just follow the career world out of interest.
Here in the UK you have no chance of getting a University degree whilst in full-time employment, otherwise prove me wrong. I'm very lucky to be on an excellent salary, and have nearly 6 years experience of large scale networking (2 years W2K).
Secondly, I have a University HND but unfortunately not a degree. As I said, I have nearly 6 years experience and I agree it is MUCH more important that a certification.
Finally, I am starting to see that the UK job market differs greatly from the USA. For starters, my company won't employ a network administrator unless he/she has at least 4 years working experience with large networks. I am lucky to be heavily involved in the selection process for new staff and we don't consider degree's to be important, but rather a solid understanding of IT. There appears to be a real lack of IT jobs available in the USA compared to the UK.
The reason I started this Topic was that I am surprised that this particular company wouldn't even consider the applicant without a degree... regardless of experience. One thing everybody has agreed on is that nothing beats experience! | |
| aslee0 2003-01-05, 5:10 pm |
| Didnt mean to insult you.
When you said...
"It's interesting, but I am 26 now and left college 5 years ago. I have far too many financial ties to go to university to get a degree..."
I ASSUMED you meant you couldn't afford to go to college. IF you can afford it, by all means, I would suggest you TAKE NIGHT CLASSES OR WEEKEND CLASSES as long as they are offered.
As time progresses, a degree becomes almost like a prerequisite, and almost assumed that everyone will have one. Then the differentiator will be whether or not you have a Master or Ph.D. As far as education goes. I think a degree is proof of being able to COMPLETE a long term goal which at the same time instills a foundation in which ever subject one studied.
I am not surprised that MOST PLACES in the US require atleast a 4 year University Degree. I, for one, would trust someone with a degree to work with EXPENSIVE networking equipment rather then someone who studied for 2 weeks and got his/her CCNA and CCDA. (Which I am guilty of).
Having spoken to my Boss who hired me as a Network engineer, he explained to me that it was not my CCNA and CCDA that got me the job but that it was my Degree. And the fact that I just finished University, I'm 21 and am looking for an entry level job, (so that he can pay me less then a seasoned veteran). He knows and I'm sure many other managers know that almost any beginning level Certification is a joke. Hence my pursuit of CCDP and CCNP.
I think certifications show ones willingness to learn more. But by NO means is it a replacement for a degree or Experience. I think its a good starting point and nothing more.
I'm sorry if I insulted you, that was not my intention. | |
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| Apologies accepted. I've got 4 more exams to go before my MCSE then I want to work extensively with network security as thats already a hobby (if you know what I mean).
A friend of mine works in network security, has no degree, no certifications, but 20 years experiance. He now works 3 days per week offering his consultancy services, which my company has used on many occasions, and he's on a massive salary of £50,000 which is around $80,500 USD. What a job! But he knows his stuff, word gets round and he's doing very well... I think all I'm trying to say is that no degree doesn't equal no prospects. | |
| DivxGuy 2003-01-05, 5:30 pm |
| quote:
Is a University degree more valuable than an MCSE then?
It is difficult to even compare the gap in worth value between the two, because the first has considerable worth, while the second has almost none. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
It only took me three months to obtain my MCSE; nothing that easy to get is ever worth anything.
RD | |
| darthw 2003-01-05, 6:59 pm |
| I agree with DivxGuy's point that a certification can be earned in the short-term, certainly moreso than the time it takes to get a degree. I often think degrees are favored because one has to sacrifice a greater deal of time, money, etc. to earn a degree. By earning a degree a person can show they have set a long-term goal and attained it. Also, coursework for degrees is usually more well-rounded than studying vendor specific info to pass a certification.
This is not to say that experience or certs are worthless. A degree is just another tool. And the more tools a person has in his/her box the better.
I am degreed, though a B.A. not in IT, and I do have a couple A.A.S. degrees in IT, along with nearly five years experience, and certs. I've worked with a couple dozen techs, almost all of whom have NOT earned a degree and few, if any, have worked on certifications. Of the couple dozen, only one or two of the techs, lacking a degree or certification, have had impressive technical skills. Many times the other techs have demonstrated only an entry-level understanding of IT, in spite of years in the business. This is not to say that all degreed, certified techs are going to be the best, but in my experience a company is more likely to get the skills they desire from someone educated, certified, and experienced, hence the requirements in a job description. | |
| aslee0 2003-01-05, 7:20 pm |
| l9nix said "I think all I'm trying to say is that no degree doesn't equal no prospects."
Sure, you could also say no certs or no experience doesnt equal no prospects.... You could win the lottery or inherit a fortune too.
I agree with the both the posts above this one... | |
| DivxGuy 2003-01-05, 7:35 pm |
| In this tough economic climate, in this profession, those without a degree one's prospects are very dim.
RD | |
| Ian Poon 2003-01-06, 3:35 am |
| As a Manager, a degree is most important than IT cert.
You may have management skills more than technical skills in your level. Certainly, as an IT manager you must know some of technical terms and procedures to arrange or manage your staffs. But I think you only need to know the concepts, that's enough in your work.
I suggest you study a degree that will have more benefits for your career future.
Online University Reference:
http://www.purpletrain.com/ | |
| Carl_Docklands 2003-01-09, 3:12 pm |
| It all depends on how hungry & how smart you are.
I have no degree & have never been held back by a lack of one. The only time i have failed is because i have just not been good enough.
It does not seem to be the degree so much in the US as more where you did it which decides how far you get your leg in the door :>
The competition in the states right now seems to be massive for what jobs are left and people are trying anything to distinguish themselves in the IT market.
From getting an MBA to having plastic surgery done to make themselves look younger, its a wonderful & crazy place is the states.
But going back to the question a degree is a solid foundation for an IT career but experience & certifications will be an over-riding factor. | |
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| Carl_Docklands you just hit the nail on the head!
It seesms that there is so much competition taking place in the USA to prove themselves and it's coming down to who has got the best qualifications and who's been to the most popular university.
I do a lot of consultation with many IT companies as part of my job, and meet well paid consultants every week. The skills sought in the UK is definately about who has the most experience, which is acompanied by certs. In the UK a degree will definiately help you get your foot in the door to the IT world, but at the end of the day companies need experianced staff.
My company recently advertised for my old job since I was promoted to manager from an administrator, and the requirements are minimum of 3 years Windows 2000 / Networking / WAN / Firewalls etc, with MCSE and or CCNA. The guy that got the job has 4 years experience, and 2 MCP's (70-216 and 70-221). Not that he couldn't pass them all, but he never felt it necessary. Since he started last we're both working together to be MCSE certified by July 2003.
It seems that neither of us would have any chance in the USA! |
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