Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries - The Oracle Credential?

Author

The Oracle Credential?

Factor>G<

2002-07-17, 12:25 am

Hello...

Ok I need answers and make em straight to the point (youch!).

Is it worth pursuing the Oracle DBA track, especially if one has no prior knowledge of databases?

The reason I ask such a question is twofold, first and foremost is it worth all the hard work and expenditure (my pocket) in today’s climate?

Secondly since most biggie companies (Fortune-100) use Oracle does one also need a degree just to enter their building??

It is never tooooooo late to learn; hence many people in life decide to study further down the road for whatever the reason.

A good one being a change of career for example.

This leads me nicely on to my third and final question for this evening folks.

I guess if one has gained the Oracle status - God bless ya, one will probably be housed within an Ivory tower that's within that biggie building.

Thus would such companies/buildings lol which include the Ivory Penthouse suit (smile) entertain a degree be it via the online study method???

I conclude did you manage to enter said biggie building and heaven forbid lol with only your Oracle credential.

I seriously hope so, if not where does this leave the state of play regarding the future of Certification.

Later

>G<

Nicole

2002-07-17, 10:31 am

quote:
Is it worth pursuing the Oracle DBA track, especially if one has no prior knowledge of databases?

Uh... no. I have 7 years of DB experience and was 4 exams deep into an OCP and didn't even have a vague Oracle nibble, even if I told them I had my OCP already... I figured I could finish by my start date if it came down to it

quote:
Secondly since most biggie companies (Fortune-100) use Oracle does one also need a degree just to enter their building??

Yeah, usually, at least here in the US, but not always. It's often a corporate formality -- waivable if you know the right person, and where you get it doesn't seem to matter as much as having one.

Databases are big and they're very much an up and coming thing. Everyone has gotta have one by now. You might consider taking the OCA exam and try to get your foot in the door as an operator.

I'm sure there are people that manage to leverage an wet OCP into a great career with no experience. (I haven't met one yet.) IMHO, the cost of an OCP -- and it's getting higher all the time -- is not worth the changes of having it pay off. But Oracle books tend to be awesome at teaching normalized design and fundamentals that work across all RDBMS's, so they're worth the read anyway.

If you do go for it, at this point I'd approach databases from an internet development and cross-platform connectivity point of view. Linux, Java, etc.

Factor>G<

2002-07-17, 12:15 pm

...Hmm

Now enter my dilemma, I'm actually in the Staes right now until the end of the month, I guess one could call it a constructive holiday, sorry vacation(smile).

I'm currently weighing up the pro's and cons if any with regards to furthering my studies this side of the pond.

Now I have been doing a little research and the stats I have indicate roughly that in LA out of lets say ten million people only 435 hold the Oracle credential.

I would say the odd's sway heavily in the favour of an Oracle DBA when it comes to looking for employment?

>G<

laloca

2002-07-17, 12:56 pm

Hi >G<,

the answer depends on your motivation why you want become a DBA.

Is it for money and glory?
Climbing up the "ivory tower" needs much, much more than a DBA cert. Those really highly paid profs are very rare - check the Oracle newsgroups to meet some of them. They will all tell you that they never needed a cert - only few of them made it. These people worked with databases for many years (10+) and have loads of practise and expertise attained in many companies and/or projects.

Are you generally interested in databases and how they can support business organizations and processes?
Then preparing the Oracle exams give you a thorough basic knowledge on how a database works. But it doesn't give you the practise you need to get a job. It's mostly theory!

For a beginner there are IMO 2 possible ways to become a "real" DBA: become a tech guy (networks, OS ..) in a company where you can additionally "support" the DBA.

or start as a database programmer and show interest in database design, backup, recovery and other administrator tasks.

Both ways are IMHO more a long term project.

Nicole

2002-07-17, 1:00 pm

You'd think. But in reality, no one wants a freshly certified DBA with no experience running their mission critical Oracle solution. And justifiably so -- Oracle solutions tend to be at the top of the heap, so you can't really find "small" Oracle houses to cut your teeth on. An inexperienced DBA can cost a company a whole heap of money.

On the other hand, a "big" Oracle house may have some low-level operator positions, where you can get the practical experience you need to move up. You might need an OCA to land one of those -- but like any entry-level position right now the competition is stiff.

All I'm saying is don't buy the wishful thinking and certification glorification that goes on. Just because some certification magazine says that certification xxx is HOT and makes HUGE $$$ doesn't mean that it's hot for a newbie to the IT business. OCP always ends up on those lists because high level DBAs make great money, but there aren't that many available jobs at that level. Go to www.dice.com and search the open Oracle positions, and you'll an idea of what kind of other qualifications you have to have to land one of those primo jobs.

If you've got the cash to invest in Oracle training, you'll learn a lot. From what I understand, though, the Oracle training camps that last 2 weeks (if that's what you're thinking of) are really only useful to people who are already very familiar with Oracle.

Factor>G<

2002-07-17, 5:24 pm

A big HI goes out to both Nicole and laloca..

First and foremost I just want to thank u both for your valid contributions to my post.

Ok I just want to say obtaining Oracle DBA status has nothing to do with the fame game and fortune that may go with it.

I'm currently in Hollywood as I type, thus if it was the fame game I was interested in I would pursue a modeling, yup not your average train spotter come geek here I hasten to add…LoL

A valid point all the same laloca...

I was released from my IT contract a couple of months ago back in the UK. Thus with having some spare time on my hands I decided to take a holiday/vacation and think about my future.

I recognized Oracle, as being one of the traditional skill sets, hence should always be in demand due to the ever-increasing reliance on databases.

I have worked as a tech support guy, had great success and enjoyed it too, yet something was missing?

My analogy of that role was something along the lines of a pit stop crew member just waiting for the inevitable to happen, and it did (yawn).

This is why I value your opinions so much because believe it or not u may just help point me in the right direction.

I’ve decided to study for the A+, why well it may only be entry level but one has to start on the bottom stepping stone and work a way up does one not?

After my studies for that are complete I will pursue yet another certification, the problem being which one hence my asking of advice regarding the Oracle path.

I’m also interested maybe pursuing web based design, MCDBA or a programming language be it Java, or .Net maybe even C++, I think the latter will be overtaken by .Net mind.

I guess I now want to do something a little more creative whilst at the same time secure my financial future.

Nicole

2002-07-17, 5:47 pm

If you want to start building skills you can eventually leverage in the DB world, you may want to stick with cross-platform stuff for now. In the developer arena, Java, XML and VB are good places to get your feet wet. C++ always seems to be in demand. In the DBA arena, SQL comes in many dialects but they are all similar, and almost every DB platform uses some form of it. You can use SQL in everything from MS Query for ODBC stuff to MS Access and SQL Server up to Oracle and more.

While in Hollywood, get a taste of the deep south by dropping by Roscoe's for Chicken 'n' Waffles. For breakfast. No really... it's awesome.

Factor>G<

2002-07-17, 7:46 pm

Hi N

Hmm...You are well versed in the art of good solid advice and for that I thank you.

Ok I agree one must diversify if one is to continue to run up front with the rest of the pack.

It never hurts, can only help to arm that bow with multiple strings, now the problem being which string do I tug on first?

We are now moving toward maybe the Microsoft way of thinking, be it SQL Server 2000 or maybe study to become an MCDBA which incorporates the above as well as a whole host of other things such as data models etc...

One very good point u mentioned...Is a big boy company willing to take the risk with a newbie be it an Oracle DBA or MCDBA?

Agreed all the other skill sets u mentioned are indeed the core, and hence should always be in good steady demand.

I know I would enjoy the programming side of things, I loved the days of old when I use to write BASIC code for my Atari 800...LoL

May I ask for your honest opinion regarding the state of play when it comes to jobs(IT) here in California?

P.S...I will try and check that chicken n waffle breakfast out...

Nicole

2002-07-17, 8:50 pm

The vast majority of companies won't hire someone with a premium certification unless they have equivalent experience to back it up. Particularly larger companies. But all bets are off if you know the right person.

A few years ago I got a great piece of advice from someone who was making an insane amount of money as -- of all things -- an MS Access developer. I was all hyped up about getting an OCP without a shred of Oracle experience. He told me, "Leverage what you already know." It sounds simple and obvious, but in the certification rat race a lot of times we forget it. I guess I thought I WAS -- I mean, it's IT, it's a database, right? But employers won't see it that way.

I dumped my Oracle plans and started integrating my Access skills into SQL Server, improving my Office development skills, and basically learning everything I could about good design, integrating anything, and making life easy for the user. I already had a background in management and purchasing, plus some net admin stuff, so next thing I know I'm an IT Manager. It's because I focused on expanding what I already knew; I'd still be hunting for an Oracle job. Besides, I never wanted to be a faceless developer in a massive enterprise environment, but I forgot it while I was caught up in the fever to get that uber-certification (then) of an OCP.

Anyway, so I know exactly where you are coming from. The IT market is depressed in CA, as practically everywhere. I'm out of touch with So Cal, so I can't help you there. Here in No Cal there are a lot of public sector jobs opening despite the budget crunch, and most cities constantly recruit for IT at every level. I don't know if there are positions available to non-citizens unless you already have a green card.

Salaries in the Bay Area have taken a real nose-dive into levels where it's just impossible to live on if you're single. I'm outside the Bay Area, where salaries have dropped but are still reasonable given the relatively cheap cost of living (for CA, anyway.) Unfortunately, there's a glut of local residents who used to commute hours to the Bay Area before they got sacked, so competition is tough but at least there are jobs. I had lots of interest in my resume, but I still ended up taking a step backward. Middle management is always the first to get cut out of a tight budget. Wheeee... I'm a developer with absolutely no authority again. Talk about culture shock!

Factor>G<

2002-07-18, 6:37 am

...I quite agree with u regarding the newbie and a premium cert, I guess I will still continue to climb those stairs as opposed to taking the lift.

I would rather earn my stripes and build a reputation through my own merits, hence no boot licking, or apple giving from moi...LoL

That is exactly why I have decided to study for the A+ exam when I return to England. That advice passed onto u was spot on (leverage), hence that is exactly what I intend to do with my tech support background.

Another good reason for the A+ is it stems from an American based organization; remember it may help my quest for a job if I do indeed decide to return.

I've decided my plan of action regarding A+ will be to flunk the tuition and just buy a book or two.

I have the knowledge just need to tame the power somewhat (smile).

Hmm sorry to hear u have been decommissioned somewhat(no management magic wand or whip lol), yet I would say project management is where it's at.

The trouble is it appears on reflection to be such a mainstream role and yet so many people are qualified (sigh).

Oh regards the green card, hmm I've been told that if I go the Oracle DBA route I can apply for a three-year visa.

Is the Oracle credential valued that highly, again on reflection it appears to be the case, hmm....?

>G<

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