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Home > Archive > Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries > February 2002 > Still looking!
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| therock6336 2002-01-25, 8:58 pm |
| Well, I've had my A+ cert for over 6 months and I still haven't found a job in the IT field. I'll be taking my Network+ exam on the 5th of Feb. and I'm also have my CNA cert as well. I've signed up with just about all of the tech job sites on the net but still haven't gotten a job into the field. I'm just looking for a Help Desk or tech support position. Is there anything else that should I be doing to get the job that I'm looking for? | |
| Nicole 2002-01-25, 10:16 pm |
| You are going to have to pound on doors. Just putting your resume on the web and answer internet job ads isn't typically enough, especially for entry level jobs where the competition is fierce. With 400 resumes on their desk, why would they go looking for you?
Companies you might contact:
Large corporations
ISPs
Consulting or outsourcing groups
Software companies with telephone support
Good luck! | |
| darthw 2002-01-25, 11:43 pm |
| Nicole is correct.
During the job boom, I would regularly get calls at least from recruiters seeing my resume on web sites, but I also am thankful to have few years experience, education, and certs. Now I don't get many of those phone calls, so an entry-level position is going to be tons harder just by posting your resume.
However, even as you continue to look, keep studying and certifying. That opportunity will come. I was looking for a year and a half when I first tried breaking into IT. | |
| huntert 2002-01-26, 12:23 am |
| Having an A+ or N+ is nothing that impressive to many employers. Those certs are dime a dozen, you need to have something differnt from the hundreds or thousands that apply for the same job you are seeking.
I have always seen A+ folks working either at bestbuys,circuit city or compusa.
go to one of those stores and apply in person, you have a decent shot.
All jobs that are on those job engines get from 1000 to 10,000 applicants.
I have been in this business for 11 years and i do know how the market works and how it does not.
You have to work on certs or degrees that are not dime a dozen.
MS certs are so saturated , try the RHCE = redhat linux tracks.
Try the security tracks, pix, checkpoint.
Try going for an oracle cert, maybe go for an citrix certification.
Cisco exams are top and respected by all, go for the ccna and get to higher levels like the ccnp,ccdp, ccie.
You will need to get your foot in the door and get experience.
the market will not improve and 20% of all techs in the world are unemplyed, so make sure that you are worth the emplyer's time. | |
| Psydefx 2002-01-26, 1:03 am |
| First of all: The upper end certs is where your focus should be. You should pick one of the following (your interest) to start:
CCNA - Cisco intro
OCA - New Oracle 9i entry cert
Sun Java
No bones about it: as posted above, if you are in the masses, competitions ROUGH. These will start you on a path to what I call "4 DITS" (4 decimal digits, or less than 9999 in the world). This positions you as one of less than 9999, which means you have more market appeal.
The next thing you do is build experience. The most expedient way to effort this means that you get creative. Here are two suggestions:
1. Start working for free for any kind of Not for Profit company. Often you can work in that they buy you equipment, you get the old, or whatever. This gives you a tax break (donations with receipts for time), maybe a little cash, and a great deal of experience (often you're the only one doing the work).
2. Take a job for a small company that has an office and has nothing to do with IT, but has computers or needs computers. This is somewhat harder to fit right, but what your objective is is to become the employee who knows a whole lot about computers that everyone goes to with problems. Eventually you add it to your list of responsibilities, you can even do projects that you run the budget for, etc.
Both of these also move you toward a very tasty certification that is well sought after (because it's do d***** hard to get:
Project Management Professional from PMI. After 2 years, you get an OCP, CCIE, or ACE coupled with a PMP, you will have challenges with managing your consulting time, not breaking into IT.
Hope it helped.
Cheers! | |
| therock6336 2002-01-26, 8:40 am |
| Thanks for all the advice you have given me. First off, I have been repairing and troubleshooting computers for over 2 years now and I set up a computer workshop for a non-profit afterschool program last year. It's not that I don't have the experience. All I want to do is to get into the IT field. But I will continue to study and get my certifications. I have faith that I'll get the job that I'm looking for. | |
| Psydefx 2002-01-26, 1:13 pm |
| That being the case, you are in the IT field. Charge for your time accordingly, build a client base, and get the nifty certs. Then charge more..... repeat as necessary. | |
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| {{{Well, I've had my A+ cert for over 6 months and I still haven't found a job in the IT field. I'll be taking my Network+ exam on the 5th of Feb. and I'm also have my CNA cert as well. }}}
You should also try to get a BS degree in CS as well for an entry level position. I don't think certs alone with limited experience is going to cut it anymore. | |
| Psydefx 2002-01-26, 6:04 pm |
| quote:
I don't think certs alone with limited experience is going to cut it anymore.
I have had a different experience. I have no degree. The only limitation that I have come to is that colleges won't let me teach their students (but they pay a premium dollar for me to teach their staff).
That being said... I am endeavoring my bachelors at DePaul. I have found my education lacking in dealing with some of the interactions of the deals that I have made.
What I am trying to say is that you should get a degree if you have a specific goal in mind... If you want a pretty resume, treat it like a business treats a brochure, and treat yourself like your business (as that is actually the case):
Know what you know
Know what you can do
Know what your prospect is asking for
Know how to get them the result they are looking for
Highlight why you are their answer.
Cheers! | |
|
| {{{Know what you know
Know what you can do
Know what your prospect is asking for
Know how to get them the result they are looking for
Highlight why you are their answer. }}}
You are correct  But you are going to have a total of nineteen certifications. Isn't this a bit too many? What exactly is your future goal in the IT field? | |
| Psydefx 2002-01-26, 9:15 pm |
| My goals involve real estate, business and lots of vacations. This happens to be a game for me. I like to play with computers. I like to push my limits and annotate my "points". As you say, I have 19 Points right now. I'm not in a race with anyone else, but while in the field, I will keep pushing myself to achieve.
As the scorpion says, "It's my nature". It also provides me the ability to lead others within my organization(s). If I maintain competence in several areas, people see it as possible, then do it themselves. | |
| therock6336 2002-01-26, 9:27 pm |
| I forgot to mention that I'm currently going to school right now for Computer Operations, learning JCL, should be graduating next year. | |
| jackiechan 2002-01-27, 7:13 pm |
| Helpdesk use to be easy to get into but now it is a little different. Now it is a senior person having to settle for a previously junior position or no job at all. The pay has also decreased, you can't expect 80K just because you have a MCSE. Perhaps half, if you are lucky. Remember that if some has the same experience and certs as you and wants less than he/she is more likely to get the job.
Let's face it I.T knowledge is taught or easily learnt, you are not born with it. A person with average intelligence can gain all the certifications he wants. So don't think you are more special than the next guy just because you have A+ or CNA. What does count is where you have worked, what you did there and what responsibilities did you have. This will get you a job. | |
| limsam 2002-01-27, 9:47 pm |
| Usually, degree is much more valuable than a certification. As usual (!!) there are exceptions.
Most important exception is CCIE. | |
| diskotek01 2002-02-01, 2:22 pm |
| At least I'm not alone... I also have my A+ and am working on Net+ and no one has called. The bills are piling up, so I might have to go back to my prior employer an grovel . At least I'm a name there, I'll just be smarter than the average bear. | |
| ComputerMan 2002-02-02, 4:04 pm |
| You guys/gals better practice those interview skills. We get a lot of people with certs/degrees that can't even look me in the face and give me a breakdown of their goals and/or what they have achieved in the past or even hope to achieve. During an interview for a network position, I asked one person why he wanted the job and he sat there with his head down not knowing what to say. He was very nervous and had difficulty answering questions when presented to him. He did not get the job.
Also, spice up those resumes!! Otherwise, they go in a BIG stack of other resumes that eventually go in the trash.
Just telling you like it is! | |
|
| {{{During an interview for a network position, I asked one person why he wanted the job and he sat there with his head down not knowing what to say. He was very nervous and had difficulty answering questions when presented to him. He did not get the job.}}}
So how the heck did this guy even MAKE IT in to the interview? If someone had a great resume and then behaved as described above (especially in a technical interview), the BS alarm would certainly go off. | |
| mrfixit 2002-02-02, 8:59 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by NickL
{{{During an interview for a network position, I asked one person why he wanted the job and he sat there with his head down not knowing what to say. He was very nervous and had difficulty answering questions when presented to him. He did not get the job.}}}
So how the heck did this guy even MAKE IT in to the interview? If someone had a great resume and then behaved as described above (especially in a technical interview), the BS alarm would certainly go off.
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****."
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there that can do just that. True, not all make it through the interview process, but some do. It all depends on their demeanor, if they have a good "poker" face, they just might slide through. | |
| limsam 2002-02-03, 6:09 pm |
| Computerman.
As interviewers, you have to stop asking seemingly 'silly' questions from candidates.
When you ask, "Why do you want this job?", what will a honest reply be? .
(1) I do not have any other job.
(2) I want money so that I can eat.
(3) I was not called for any other interview because of bad economy. Otherwise will I come to your interview to face silly questions?
(4) When will you learn to ask 'intelligent question' skipping these stereotypes?
Honestly the candidate wants to tell one of the above. But since he cannot tell the above, he has to think a suitable lie. | |
|
| What about other silly questions such as:
Where do you see yourself in five years (How would I know, does anyone with this company after five years)?
Or
Where else have you interviewed, what other opportunities are you considering (What is it their business, can I ask the interviewer what other candidates he is considering? | |
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| Psydefx 2002-02-03, 8:28 pm |
| I can tell you from personal experience that you don't want to say, "On a beach with a laptop measuring my stock gains for the afternoon" to the 'five year' question. I was interviewing for GW, and had decided already that their compensation package wasn't. It worked, they called me about two weeks later and told me that I "wasn't a perfect fit".
Cheers! | |
| limsam 2002-02-03, 11:10 pm |
| Excellent! NickL.
In fact I have a big collection of silly interview questions. And I was always wondering, "how did you get this post(to interview), being a fool?".
Like you said, I was interviewed by a person from Australia, who asked "Where do you see you in 10 years?", I replied, "Sir, honestly I do not know.".
Needless to say, I was not selected. And I did not want to see that fool's face either. | |
| exar07 2002-02-04, 4:30 pm |
| Only my opinion......
You can see a lot of discussions about having certs and no job. But the bottom line is that a certs are like 10 points of the 100% required to get an interview. The other 90% is like experience (at least 1 yr). To be more marketable you need to work on the 90% of your 100%.
Try:
working on the side - Freelance (keyword-FREE)
Look for some help desk or support job (I did)
Some tech with 1 yr of experience with no certs has a 90% chance of getting the job
before you do.
Good Hunting! | |
| mjbearit 2002-02-04, 5:46 pm |
| The certs are great. We all work very hard for them, and we feel very defensive if someone calls their measure of our worth into question. The bottom line is you need something more. Take some customer service classes. Are you aware that ETA offers a Customer Service Cert? You have to be able to interact with the interviewer, otherwise how will you ever interact with the client. The truth is that most interviewers do not know what to ask you. They know so little about what they need or even why they need us that they are totally lost when it comes to interviewing us. I have many years in the field, and when I am in an interview I turn the tables. I ask them why I should come to work for their company. I ask them what they can do for me, where they intend to take their company and what steps they are taking to prevent downsizing or closure of business. Where you work, and where you have worked in the past says a lot about you in an interview. So does desparation. Even if you haven't eaten all week, be picky. If you do not at least give the appearance of being in demand, they are in charge. Take some interviewing classes too. Learn what to do with your hands during an interview. Learn how to look someone in the eye. Learn how to engage them in conversation and take control of the situation. Once you have learned to do these things, you will get what you want, almost every time. | |
|
| {{{{Look for some help desk or support job (I did)}}}}
There will be thousands upon thousands of people looking for the same position, because that is what everyone who has received an entry level cert without experience is told to do (even if they have a degree) if they have no experience. For 90%, the job search will be futile, and wishful thinking at best. Hopefully, they will already be employed, as to prevent homelessness or starvation.
{{{Some tech with 1 yr of experience with no certs has a 90% chance of getting the job
before you do.}}}
Agreed, but how did this tech get this one year of experience, how did he or she get the job one year ago?
No one can provide an answer to that question, why not? BECAUSE THERE IS NO ANSWER. You MUST have experience to get even the most basic tech support position. | |
| limsam 2002-02-04, 9:05 pm |
| Agreed, but how did this tech get this one year of experience, how did he or she get the job one year ago?
Excellent Nickl !! In fact I started a thread, "Where to start" regarding this issue, somewhere last month.
I agree with you 100%. | |
| Pavlov 2002-02-05, 9:45 am |
| HONESTY!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot emphasize that word enough. It's okay to answer a question with "I don't know". We don't always have all the answers in life  When asked where do I see myself in 5 years, depending upon the position, I usually will make inference to possibly being in the chair of the interviewer by then If I don't know the answer to something technical, the appropriate response is "I don't know that off the top of my head, but I do know where I can get that answer."
As an IT Manager I interviewed lots of people for desktop support positions. You can usually give one or two good technical questions at the end of the interview to find out if the person knows his/her way around the inside of the computer and how to work the software.
However, what some of you may deem "silly" questions, are actually quite the opposite. As the Manager it was also my job to build a cohesive team. I would ask you questions like, "As the manager of the team, what do you see my role as?", "Can you give me five adjectives to best describe yourself?", etc. Amazing how many people can't come up with 5 adjectives.
Questions along this line would help me learn about the person not just the technician. It is also the Manager's job to make sure this group of technicians gel as a team and are knowledgeable in their subject area. I was fortunate to have a diverse network and, therefore, tried to hire folks with different skills sets to eventually cross-train everyone. More importantly, though, I also needed to make sure I wasn't hiring fuel for potential explosive erruptions on the team. If your technicians don't like one another, the whole company is going to know. They are the representation of you on the floor. I want to be represented by knowledgeable, friendly, intelligent HAPPY people.
Just my opinion. | |
| wbafrank 2002-02-05, 10:38 am |
|  I was asked by the Project Manager of a company "where I would like to be in 5 years time?" and I said "where your sitting." Funny, I didn't get the job .... I wonder why? | |
| MensaBoy 2002-02-05, 4:18 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by NickL
But you are going to have a total of nineteen certifications. Isn't this a bit too many?
I agree, unless you intend to teach, you're better off with a concentration of certs and a degree - it worked for me!
You also might be better off joining a professional org. Not only does it show interest, it lends to networking opportunities. |
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