Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries - Recruiters, Are they cheaters?

Author

Recruiters, Are they cheaters?

limsam

2002-10-15, 1:40 am

Hi

I got this experience.

I applied to monster.com.au for a postition that matches my certifications and experience. I got a template reply " Sorry, we have found a better candidate.". Then I continued to see that same ad even after one week.

Are they advertising on non-exisiting postitions just to increase the hits and increase their advertisement rates?

I have seen similar thing with recruiters advertising on newspapers.

I feel there must be some rugulation/rule

RichardJW

2002-10-15, 4:50 am

Who knows whether they found a better candidate. Perhaps they got what they THOUGHT was a better candidate, but they and you will probably never know!

You're right, they should be regulated because they go way beyond the mark of what is socially acceptable. Leave them to their dreamworlds and try applying for jobs direct.

Luchnia

2002-10-15, 6:12 am

I am not sure how it is in other countries, but here in the USA the recruiters post dummy jobs, and use many deceiving tactics to ensnare and trap. Companies hire and only post due to regulations and requirements. I have found several agencies that have done this over and over.

You could not get them to take the jobs down without spending tons of money to go through legal battles. It is usually fraudulent, plain and simple. It is best to expose them and see if they may find honesty and integrity to do the right thing for a change.

One agency called me for a position (that I knew they could not find anyone to do), and I had already applied for one position about 4 times in the past six months. I more than qualified for the position. I notice it was still up the last time I looked. They made out like there were no other positions available, yet I had a friend that knew someone from the company and they said there were positions available.

When I asked them about it, they played dumb, like they did not know anything about it. These recruiters are game players, for the most part and playing politics with the corporate honchos. They only want the big companies and the big bucks. If you are small time, forget it. It stinks and is dishonest. They do use the "bait and switch" game against you to their advantage, all the while not intending to give you anything of value. You just have to be very smart today.

When you apply for jobs now, MAKE them accountable for the ads they place and if they do not remove them when filled, then report them to the Better Business Bureau, or whatever agency is responsible for this type of thing to make them come under proper contract policies.

Let them know you have done your research and that you KNOW there are jobs at the company (check with someone at the company and find out this info). Keep detailed records that indicate exactly what you are telling them. Get names, places, times, etc., in order to make sure you are correct and have the facts.

In other words, hold them to their words.

Peace

RichardJW

2002-10-15, 6:18 am

I like that advice especially the slant on accountability but unless they are regulated they will largely continue in the same way they do already IMO.

Luchnia

2002-10-15, 6:27 am

Well, here in the US we have TV stations and various groups that will use stories about companies to make them public and come in line. Many people are cheating in society today and these programs really help.

Our local TV station has exposed many bad business practices and made businesses do the right thing, or lose business. Losing business is losing profit and no business wants that!

People can pool their resources and work together to make sure these firms are on the up-and-up in their business practices.

I haven't really read any of the recruiting firms guidelines for business practices, but I bet there are some they have to go by. It would be interesting to see just what type of scrutiny they are under

Peace

JeremyWatts

2002-10-15, 9:16 am

The only way I've been able to find work is through recruiters they have most companies here convinced that they are better at finding talent then the HR dept. I've had one interview with a direct apply and about 15 with recruiters and I'm still unemployed because I keep getting offers for night jobs which interfere with classes. But I would say kill all recruiters before they kill the industry

RichardJW

2002-10-15, 5:53 pm

Luchnia, remember also that some of these threads get a fair old exposure and they are pretty specifically viewed by people in the I.T. industry. People form their own opinions of course but they are also up for advice - and if recruiters repeatedly get slammed then that means loss of business. The problem with TV you see is that it isn't audience specific even though the audience will be far larger. So these things are relative. Ultimately the audience doesn't matter in this case - it's what you come away personally with the different views and how that can help you in employment research. Anyone serious about crusading against recruiters should angle in on major I.T. periodicals and try to get solicited articles. Also to be prepared to thoroughly research for this kind of thing in particular is important. The problem I feel is getting such material accepted because a lot of such periodicals gain revenue from those people - (those useless recruiters

)

Kasor

2002-10-15, 8:31 pm

Strategy! or ... you never know.

limsam

2002-10-15, 9:52 pm

Who knows whether they found a better candidate. Perhaps they got what they THOUGHT was a better candidate, but they and you will probably never know

True. I am NOT paronoid thinking that I am the best. I know there are better people.

But, how come the same ad continued to appear even after one week? And this is NOT an isolated event. I have seen this more than once . And at more than one place.

CoffeeFreak

2002-10-16, 9:02 am

Tell me about it, There is a job posted up on monster.com right now in my town, i went to check on it and the guy said they filled it 2 weeks ago. NOW a month later, it's still up there...... WTF??

namrak

2002-10-16, 10:25 am

Certainly recruiters and the companies they work for should not be anyone's only source for job availability. As evidenced by Luchnia's experience, you're not likely to get a fair shake on the matter. I've always felt its better to hunt down the jobs yourself at the sources if you don't have any inside contacts available. If you actually have buddies in recruiting, they CAN help you. But if you're walking off the street cold...

RichardJW

2002-10-16, 5:01 pm

quote:
But if you're walking off the street cold...

Then you're in trouble!

boomer4d

2002-10-18, 7:32 am

A lot of the jobs you see on Monster, Flipdog, HotJobs etc... are posted for one reason, to see how many and what kind of responses that they get. From the point of view of a company considering adding staff what better way to evaluate the labor market in that particular area. It can also tell the company is it a buyers (employers) market or a sellers (employees) market.

Is it right? Hell no it isn't but as was mentioned until those sites are regulated in some manner it will continue. Anytime you see a job posted on the Net take it with a grain of salt that it doesn't actually exist. Doesn't mean you shouldn't apply for it if you are looking for job, you might get lucky and be one of the 3% that actually gets hired through one of the above sites.

Nitro5q

2002-10-26, 9:11 am

Monster has jobs posted that were filled two months ago, I agree. You must follow up with the recruiter or hiring manager about hiring decisions, and if the position has been filled.

As far as recruiters, they may help you out entry level, but be wary. I worked for Tek Systems for 1/2 year when I got started. I quit when a job came up installing internal cable modems. They were taking candidates to the interview and there were two middle parties. So you worked for a company for another company for Charter?!? Tek Systems offered techs 12/hour. So I go to another recruiter, interview for the same job AFTER the recruiter ask ME how much I want(25). Needless to say, I workded right along a fellow from Tek that made half what i did and put in 12 hours per day. Those companies are real skinners.

Luchnia

2002-10-26, 9:33 am

quote:
Originally posted by Nitro5q

Monster has jobs posted that were filled two months ago, I agree. You must follow up with the recruiter or hiring manager about hiring decisions, and if the position has been filled.

My question is why isn't there some sort of system to acknowledge when the jobs are filled so that we don't continuously look at these same postions?

The only way I could find if certain jobs were filled is by calling the firms that posted the jobs and asking them. This takes precious time and cost money.

If the jobs have been taken then why do they post them on the web sites as if they were current dates? Oh well, we do have to be shrewd today. The burden is placed upon us to follow-up on every little situation.

This past week I called a firm about a string of new ads they had posted all over the various job sites. Their reply was, "Oh, those should have came off by now."

Basically this was a lie, because they were "brand new" ads. Sheeeeesh...just how cotton-picken dumb do they think we are? Why don't they just say, "We don't think you have enough brains in your head to figure out why we posted all those new ads."

I am sure there is more to come on this subject

JeremyWatts

2002-10-26, 9:45 am

I have been noticing jobs posted at lets say 20 bux an hour. so I apply and then they say we already hired someone. then you see the job again but lower pay I even called and it's the exact same job in almost every case and they say they have an opening. I figured out what there doing putting up ads to see how many people respond at 20 an hour then go down on wage there till they feell they can hire still get good talent at low cost like someone who should make 20 get 12 because of the market and desperation.

Nitro5q

2002-10-26, 4:43 pm

You are exactly right. The job recruiter makes so much for himself plagueing on the desperation of the failing economy for the dot.com IT positions. They want us to crawl back in as pawpers. I am not going back to this industry until it pays what is fair for the position. Mine was high stress and paid now 31 /hour. these jobs are available but they are selective only to hire foreign nationals, I guess for tax purposes. So many loopholes, so much downsizing, and I am waiting to see if I just have to get into another job market after getting 5 years experience in a ISP network center and an Associates in networking, plus all the training we thought was going to open doors:
Cisco training=25,000
Cisco certs=500
Network + 145
A+=125
Cisco switching=500
TCP/IP two months=10,000. The list is too numerous to mention. It has not opened any doors for me as yet.

Sponsored Links