Certifications and IT jobs/Salaries - Recruiting firms rant

Author

Recruiting firms rant

Crutch

2002-10-07, 3:09 am

What is it with these recruiting firms? I start a new job next week with a defense contractor. After my second interview, they asked if I had signed on with any recruiting firms as part of my job search, and I told them which ones I had signed with. The defense contractor said they had contacted this one recruiting firm, looking for people. After a few weeks had gone from my last interview with the defense contractor, I decided to call my recruiter at this firm, and asked if they had any jobs open with the defense contractor. My recruiter said that while my experience was good, I wasn't what the company was looking for.

I got a call from the defense contractor this past friday offering me the job. After going in and signing all my paperwork, I told the HR manager of my experience with the recruiter. She was shocked that they never forwarded my resume to her. She said that it was just as well for me as the pay difference was $20K per year, in my favor.

This recruiter is a national chain and has a great reputation for finding people good paying work. These recruiters are basically sales people. Selling people's lives. You'd think they'd submit resumes to everyone. Then you call these guys and all you get is, "I'm actively marketing you!"

What Bullsh*t!

Luchnia

2002-10-07, 5:57 am

Wow....reading these stories like this can really make you mad.

Here is an example of something I have been going through. I applied with several recruiting firms for various positions that match my skill set. One firm, I have been watching for a while, because I suspect that they have "dummy" jobs posted that are not real, but decoy, while they are meat market hunting to fill positions no one wants.

I guess I applied for maybe 3 to 4 jobs with this firm that were perfect matches for me. This week I get a call from the firm saying they saw my resume on Monster and was interested in hiring me for a position. I ask them why they had not seen my resume from all the other jobs I had applied for directly to their firm. The lady slid away from my question.

Well, here is the take. The job they offered me was a help desk position with 100% phone support and was evening shift and very low pay. The thing that makes me mad is they have not even considered my skill set, nor the fact that I told them I am a hands on person and do not match phone support jobs, except about 30% of the time. They just wanted flesh to fill their slots with a big company.

Here is what is really strange. The company that they are trying to place me with has jobs that fit me very well, because I have an inside connection to this company. These recruiters play politics, and try to impress people, etc., all the while being a bunch of liars. I would never work in that environment where I had to lie to people contiuously and play these games.

The whole thing is wrong, plain and simple and it is a misuse of proper matching skills. This does no one any good whatsoever. Even though I am desperately looking right now, I am going to call them and ask them why they are not giving me one of the previous positions I applied for?

I can only imagine what garbage they will spew to me on that question. Also, I am going to tell them they need to REALLY read my resume and in order to keep my good name, I prefer to be properly matched to a job. My resume is straight to the cuff and accurate as well. I don't play games with what I can do.

What a joke these people try to live these days. I am trying desperately to find something without going through a recruiter. I simple despise their work tactics and inethical business practices. You go into their ivory towers and you can easily see what their goals are all about. It is not about people, it is about an image and money.

Peace

Luchnia

2002-10-07, 6:08 am

Here is a question I have about these recruiting firms. Why not call them out on their errors? Expose them openly and let them squirm. I mean, why not make them bring it out on the table? If more of them were exposed to all the world to see, then maybe some would start changing some of their deceitful practices and become something of worth.

When you find lies with these firms, make them public info. There are radio stations, newspapers, the Internet, and many ways to bring them to responsible practices. Aren't they in business to make money? Then they should be no less scrutinized as any business should be.

I don't hesitate to call them on the table, myself. They either squirm like snakes, or they explain away the lies to justify themselves, but I corner them anyway. At least I and others I know, will know where they stand.

Not long ago, a firm my wife works with called me in for an interview. You might say, when I was done, I interviewed them, and found out just where they stand. It is amazing what you can get people to tell you. To keep a long story short, it was basically a bunch of crap to make them look good.

Peace

mewcomm

2002-10-08, 7:07 pm

Crutch...

My guess is that your experience is the "EXCEPTION" not the norm.

Fact is, your resume is one of 100's that cross a recruiter's desk in a week. Recruiting firms make decisions based on measurable criteria and "gut" calls about candidates.

You lament that Recruiters should "submit resumes to everyone".....kinda like a syn flood. But just like the TCP/IP suite, there is a protocol they follow in moving candidates to employers. You can't just send the employer every resume that looks close to the position needed. That's what recruiting firms do.... narrow the field to a manageable size of the best candidates for the employer to review. Their goal is to create lossless compression. Not always successful as you have seen.

Yes, they do sell "people's lives". People who asked them to market their skills to interested parties. It's voluntary.

It's a great system. But it's not perfect. Recruiting firms also get outright fraudulent resumes (that checking reveals), candidates who smile and charm on the interview and then can't "walk the walk". Not to mention the behvioral problems that don't show up on paper.

In the end, it's in the recruiters interest to find the candidate the best possible position at the highest possible salary. It's how they make their money and their reputation.

Anyway, this safu has a "happy ending" with your securing a better position.

Good for you.

Cheers,

drdirt

2002-10-09, 12:46 am

An acquaintance of mine owns a recruiting-jobber that used to do mostly IT. Now she does mostly nursing (so don't resume spam me...)

Recruiters see things differently than other humans do. Sue (not her real name) says that most recruiters work like real estate agents under a broker. They operate pretty independently even in the same office.

They each hoard their client contacts like gold, and they guard their best candidate contacts closely too. They rarely share info which explains some of the comments here.

They also want to present the very best client, of course. But think about it, they want to get someone who looks even overqualified for the job so the next recruiter doesnt snake the deal. They often want to find someone and place them below their marketable skill level.

Recruiting is competitive, and when its hot, the money is great. When it is hard to make placements, the money stinks. So they are often trying to survive out there.

They may only get to present one or two resumes for one position! When they decide who to present, they are really thinking about how the resume and the person looks to the client. There is pressure to emphasize things like how well you interview and not how well you solve problems.

The recruiter has to try to figure out what the client wants and provide (someone who looks like) it. Recruiters are going to be happier presenting you if you look better on paper than some guru, but one who assumes people will read between the lines on the resume.

Recruiters are useful for a limited number of things. A quad-P4 server doesn't help much when you need to jot down a phone number.

Don't expect the recruiter is really negotiating for your best interests all the time. And don't count on the recruiter knowing everything they ought to about what the client will pay...

genata

2002-10-09, 6:25 am

wow... reading those things about the reqruitment... it looks like there isn't any normal way to find a job... unless if you know somebody that works as a reqruiting agent hehehe...or you are very lucky.. (well at the end everything is about luck)
I hope the things would be better next year when I have to look for a new job..

onoski

2002-10-09, 3:59 pm

drdirt, why your comments are understandable to a certain extent however it would be nice if agents are honest with applicants. It seems to me like you are someone that actually works as an agent as you seem to know a lot about how they try to operate and manipulate peoples lives with lies and force hopes of securing an IT post. I still think agents are just a bunch of IT sales people with no clue of IT whatsoever period.

RichardJW

2002-10-09, 4:46 pm

Recruiters suck. I'd never want a recruiter to benefit financially from me. They wasted my time and money. They are liars. They make a lot of people angry. They don't know how to do their job: how the heck can they tell that you are suitable for being put forward for a position on the basis of a resume/CV and a phone call? Get real. Now if they insisted in meeting you in person perhaps bringing in a third person to address technical issues (which they generally don't know sweet **** *** about) then maybe I would think differently. That by the way is how good independent headhunters operate.

Well this is supposed to be a rant yeah?

RichardJW

2002-10-09, 5:09 pm

Be your own recruiter. Phone those recruiter guys up and get the name of the company. They nearly always tell you this especially when you chuck in a few exaggerations of your own. Then just contact them direct. Try and arrange an informal meeting to discuss the company - the directions it is heading in, the clients and projects - if the timeframe is appropriate. Bring in discussion of the job role at the end if that seems suitable. Otherwise it may be more appropriate to simply go for the interview after having researched the company. Remember that many companies would be only too glad to be able to bypass a recruiter's fee. This is pretty much how I got my present position. You have to be a lot more proactive, and barring getting the name of the company for the role and a few more tidbits about the role - who needs 'em?

drdirt

2002-10-10, 5:04 pm

Yeah, Onoski, it would be nice. they aren't doing headhunting 'cause Mother Teresa was already helping the poor.

Me, a recruiter? I couldn't do all that schmoosing. "Jan" offered me a job at her firm, didn't want it.

And - I know a bit about recruiters 'cause I too have (used/been used) by them. During the late 1980s there was a real boom in environmental. I had a few years experience and too much book learning (dr. dirt)- My salary went up about 200% in 3 years.

Avoided recruiters when I started schlepping packets instead of dirt.

Never met a recruiter that new alot about the skills they hunt. Just the acronyms fed to them by the employer. Maybe coach them about why your background is good so they present you better...

drdirt

2002-10-10, 5:09 pm

RichardJW you got some good moves.

I never snaked a recruiter like that.

All that got me is that I can be self-righteous about when they snaked me.

New motto: "milk them for info, then go for the job."

Luchnia

2002-10-10, 5:21 pm

Talk about squirming! I have been making the recruiters tell me why they did not chose my resume when I sent it for certain positions, that I more than qualify for.

I get all sorts of excuses like, "Who did you send it to? It must have gotten lost, somehow. Not sure why we did not get your resume." This is just a few of the nonsense excuses I have gotten.

I believe many of the jobs I have applied for are "dummy" adds just so the recruiters stay in the loop on the job boards. I have called them out several times now, and mostly all I get are lies about the position, or that somehow my resume "magically" got lost.

I fit some of the jobs to the tee and yet, they call and offer me some garbage position in the wee hours of the morning for hardly any pay. I am going to start asking them if they would consider working at a job like they are offering me. It isn't that I mind doing the job, it is the tactics they use that angers me.

In over a dozen firms now, only two people have been decent to me over the phone, and I believe they are sincerely trying to make it work the best they can. The rest of them have basically lied to me over and over. This says much for recruiting firms.

Wow....this was a good RANT!!!! I think I will create a Certification for this! Maybe CRS (Certified RANT Specialist). I am improving my RANTING skills (gonna find somewhere to put this on my resume

onoski

2002-10-11, 1:56 am

drdirt, I couldn't make much sense out of your reply. The thread title is about agencies that rant and lie about jobs that don't exist and you seem to be in between. Just hit the nail on the head and admit it as majority of the IT agencies out there are a bunch of employed IT sales liars period. I don't expect them to be mother terrisa or father xmas either but I do expect a bit of professionalism truth when dealing with prospective candidates and clients. If you have a problem with this then that is your own myopic problem. I don't apologise for these harsh words either as they are a fact about IT recruitment agencies.

drdirt

2002-10-11, 3:17 am

Onoski -
I doubt we think much differently of recruiters. I hate dealing with them.

Professionalism and recruiters? D'ya think there is a chance they will change?

I'd love to see it. But I ain't holdin' my breath.

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