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| groovergirl 2003-07-23, 11:54 am |
| 3 years ago I decided to go back to computers which I had taken as an A level nearly 10 years previoulsy and then done nothing about! I paid £3000 to do the full MCSE course and I have now done 8 MCP's and am working on the 9th (Exchange 2000 - easily the hardest so far!). I got a job in a call centre and now, less than 2 years later I am working for a company and am senior team member doing 3rd level network support with 3 other members in the team - all men!!!!
Women rule in IT! | |
| Gundyman 2003-07-23, 11:01 pm |
| Take it easy...
U won this time, OK  | |
| DivxGuy 2003-07-25, 4:31 am |
| After you've done the SQL Server ones, then come back and brag.  | |
| Paisleyskye 2003-07-26, 5:54 pm |
| Congratulations, you've done very well. Good luck with your Exchange exam. | |
| xonkers 2003-08-03, 3:13 am |
| Braindump and copyrighted material removed by Paisleyskye! | |
| serpico 2003-09-02, 1:55 am |
| Ignore the jealous.
Congratulations. | |
| tech274 2003-09-28, 3:18 pm |
| I would be happy for you , except for that last line.( Women rule in IT)(whatever that means).
In that same 3 year period,I have only been able to get temp jobs,and have been able to view "The Women that Rule in IT",in a variety of settings.Here are a few:
"Do you know where the installation CD is for File Manager?" - Female Sys Admin for all of Detroit and part of Canada.
"What is Active Directory?" (She really did not know)During an interview with the head of IT(female), on discussion of her NT servers and their upgrade.
"You don't need a Bachelors degree, I had no experience and no education,I just told them I could do the job and they hired me.I don't even like IT" - Female DNS Admin telling me I don't need to finish my Bachelors to get a job in IT.
"How do you add a user in AD?" (I showed her)
-Female NW Admin that could not add a user account
"He starts talking to me about packets and stuff,I don't know what he is talking about,I just want it fixed" - Female head of tech support for major bank on a guy trying to explain why her routers got flooded and half her NW went down.
So I do get ticked off, when I hear "Women Rule etc", then I see women making good money , while I'm a temp,making less, and having to take another job, and yet I am more qualified than some of these women.
It appears my father was wrong, when he said to work and study hard,all he had to do is name me Jane! | |
| nethead 2003-09-29, 3:39 am |
| I think there is a certain element of Luck - being in the right place at the right time.
Also it comes down to how you sell yourself - some people are much better than others, whilst some people are prepared to tell "little white lies" in order to get the job they really want and worry about doing the job when they actually have it. I don't condone this but it's what some people do unfortunately. | |
| Bingram 2003-09-30, 9:26 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by tech274
In that same 3 year period,I have only been able to get temp jobs,and have been able to view "The Women that Rule in IT",in a variety of settings.Here are a few:
Many women out there have earned their position and know what they are doing. OTOH there are some that seemed to have gotten their positions based on dress size and hair color. Probably just as many women in that catagory as there are men who inflated resumes or got their position because of who "daddy" knows.
To be fair, gender is not an issue when guaging competency. I've made a career of cleaning up lousy, mis-configured networks for customers who are at wits end. Just as many were done by males as females. | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-01, 6:30 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Bingram
To be fair, gender is not an issue when guaging competency.
Boy, I hate to be saying this, but I really think I've run into more clueless women in IT than men. As a percentage it's much higher since there are so few women in IT as it is.
The only time I ever ran into an MCSE that couldn't install Windows NT 4.0, or do some other equally basic task, it's been a woman.
Sorry, but that's just been my experience. I don't know if it's an issue of quotas or what, but it does seem to only happen with the girls.
At the same time, that's not to say I don't know some very, very talented women. Some of the best techs I've worked with have been women. Many of the techs with the best work ethic have been women, that's for sure. I worked with one in my last job that was very dedicated to security - so much so that we ended up going to Defcon together; she paid her own way from NY while the company paid mine from SF. | |
| Paisleyskye 2003-10-01, 9:12 pm |
| Well, I've met a lot of clueless men in IT, and have had to have them stand back and get the heck out of my way while I did the work.
I'm not man bashing - but I wouldn't consider the ratio of clueless women to be any higher than that of clueless men.
I think the ratio of cluenesses is probably 50/50.
Oh, and I've met men who couldn't install Windows, upgrade RAM or replace a hard drive too. | |
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| DivxGuy 2003-10-01, 11:39 pm |
| How the heck does someone get to be an MCSE without knowing how to install NT4?! | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-02, 3:40 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by DivxGuy
How the heck does someone get to be an MCSE without knowing how to install NT4?!
Paper Cert back in 1998 or 99. | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-02, 3:42 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Paisleyskye
Oh, and I've met men who couldn't install Windows, upgrade RAM or replace a hard drive too.
I wasn't intending to bash women, it's just been my personal experience. But like I've said, I've worked with some highly skilled ones as well. | |
| Papiya 2003-10-02, 3:47 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by TJLeeland
Boy, I hate to be saying this, but I really think I've run into more clueless women in IT than men. As a percentage it's much higher since there are so few women in IT as it is.
You need to get out more. I just came back from putting a shortcut on a male collegaue's desk because he couldn't figure out how to do it. (To be fair he is mainframe-skilled and PC-illiterate). | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-02, 5:14 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Papiya
(To be fair he is mainframe-skilled and PC-illiterate).
Well then, that's not fair! | |
| racerdeb 2003-10-02, 9:57 pm |
| I don't think NT is the measurement of cluelessness. NT goes away Jan. 2004. It's everything after that including 2005 that will be the true measure of a qualified IT professional. | |
| TJLeeland 2003-10-03, 3:55 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by racerdeb
I don't think NT is the measurement of cluelessness. NT goes away Jan. 2004. It's everything after that including 2005 that will be the true measure of a qualified IT professional.
Yeah, um...I suspect you didn't read the post four above your own. I think most people would agree that it certainly was a good indicator in 1998. No? | |
| em_ar_ducks 2003-10-07, 7:43 am |
| It's not a male/female thing.
I once worked with a progammer/developer who had a BSEE, Masters in Math, and PHD in Computer Science. Had worked in industry for over 20 years, and still had to be lead by much more junior engineers when the time came to actually do something. By the way this person actually taught at a community college part time.
There used to be a formula we used to evaluate any group of working people:
80% of the real work is typically done by less than 20% of the available workers.
Also remember, most people who really enjoy and know the job seldom find their way into management where they can/could make a difference. Basically because no one likes the burden of management.
My guess (from personal exp.) is that in every case where there is some dead weight, there is a management organization that has issues as well. Or maybe by looking a bit deeper the clueless person has some hidden value that we are overlooking from our own cluelessness. | |
| jessibell 2003-10-09, 9:39 am |
| I got to say that as a woman I have met equally incappable men and women in the IT industry. I came into IT as a project manager (which I hated) at which time I barely knew one end of a PC from the other.
The more I learnt the more I wanted to learn. I stepped down to be an administrator, and from that experience have become a systems support technician in a medium sized business supporting everything OS based, various apps, and 1st lining hardware and programmer type calls.
I am well on my way to achieving an MCSE:Security and have never installed a server in my life. I have done PCs though. This means that I know what windows is capable of doing, and know the theory of doing it, just don't always know what buttons to press to achieve it!
There is tonnes I don't know, and will never know, but I learn more every day and know that I will never stop. I dare sometimes I look a bit dim, but not for long cause I don't need telling twice | |
| student615 2003-10-21, 6:47 pm |
| There is always something to learn even when you think you are done.
About 8 years ago I have moved from Europe to the states, by that time I have been working with Oracle for a few years. At that time I have been told by quite a few gentlemen that Oracle is nothing in this country and if I want to succeed I better learn something else. Few years later they had to learn Oracle.
I agree it is not a male/female thing. | |
| AMDWiZARD 2003-12-22, 6:19 am |
| I've never met a woman in IT who knew what she was talking about. If she did, I would be overly impressed. Im not talking about Hard drives and RAM, the simple concepts...
I'm talking about Forest trusts, Active Directory migrations, Exchange Servers, and Network design, oh and especially DNS and a knowledge of how it all works together.
Start talking about VPN's, security, and subnets and they'll look at you cross-eyed.
There are men in IT that are clueless, just not as much as women.
AMDWiZARD | |
| nethead 2003-12-22, 6:53 am |
| It all depends what areas you work in. I'll freely admit I don't know anything about Forest trusts, Active Directory migrations, and Exchange Servers - but this is because it is not my area. Whereas I do know about Network design, DNS, subnets, security etc because personally I work in Networks. I'm sure its equally the same for everyone - but some people are better at blagging than others
Don't write us all off - there are some very knowledgeable women in IT, but I assume none of us have met you yet. | |
| dianeteg 2003-12-22, 11:18 am |
| AMDWizard says he's "never met a woman in IT who knew what she was talking about." Wow! In today's day and age, I had no idea that men still held such misogynistic attitudes about women, especially those that they work with. Not only does he admit to holding the stereotype, he proudly proclaims it in a discussion under "IT Career Women." | |
| fpbaker 2003-12-23, 2:24 pm |
| Unless there is a study where such variables as time in the job, education before the job, age, martial/child status, etc can be held constant there is no factual basis for any opinion.
Personally I am much more concerned about people who dont know things tring to bluff their way through it, a behavior I have observed in men (what makes anyone think we ask directions inside our office if we dont outide it), than women. People who ask are less likely to break.
I am not reading in a lot of places that the future holds greater emphasis on hard skills vs soft ones. So EVEN IF you have X more facts in your head than a member of the 51% club, that may not be as important as you would like it to be. My personal experence is that I get mentoring as well as give it. | |
| georgettey 2004-02-13, 4:47 pm |
| I'm preparing for the 70-210 exam, but I don't know which books to use. I've heard mixed views about Transcenders and Cramsession. Does anyone have any suggestions on books or websites? Thanks | |
| yanqui 2004-03-24, 5:32 pm |
| I think IT is a much leveler playing field than just about any other, because of the very diverse strengths and talents it takes to do the many different types of IT work there are. Some people are better problem solvers at a hands-on level, some are more analytical, some are able to explain what just happened (and some are absolutely NOT!), some can install (but not troubleshoot and repair), and when you bring in all the hardware, software, networking, web apps, security, server stuff, there's such a vast selection of jobs within the umbrella of "Information Technology." And it's probably why there are so many idiots trying to get into it when they ought to be flipping burgers. Our company has some talented and dedicated IT people. Unfortunately I think the IT director has been bitten by the chauvinist bug, because one female tech had to leave becuase of medical problems, the other one was shuttled into an admin position within that department, and the department's only other female is a project manager. I've applied, but there is a "hiring freeze" that will probably be lifted when I leave. I'm a better troubleshooter than at least one of the male techs, and I'm at least as willing to do the grunt work as he is; I did better than he did on the A+ exams, and I'm probably more ready for Net+ than he is. But I'll have to go somewhere else to use it. | |
| Papiya 2004-04-01, 2:17 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by AMDWiZARD
I've never met a woman in IT who knew what she was talking about. If she did, I would be overly impressed. Im not talking about Hard drives and RAM, the simple concepts...
I'm talking about Forest trusts, Active Directory migrations, Exchange Servers, and Network design, oh and especially DNS and a knowledge of how it all works together.
Start talking about VPN's, security, and subnets and they'll look at you cross-eyed.
There are men in IT that are clueless, just not as much as women.
AMDWiZARD
Were you born this stupid or did you have to practise? | |
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| Hi guys,
is there a female on this forum who is persuing the career in IT while also having a family of her own to look after? If so can you tell me how you manage your time? Anyone else who doesnt fall in this catolgory but can suggest some advice please feel free to share your input .
thanks-a-mil | |
| yanqui 2004-04-02, 9:57 am |
| Yeah, that's me! I have a full-time job NOT in IT, I passed the A+ exams with great scores, and I'm trying now to get an IT job. Third rule: don't give up your day job. SEcond rule: Enlist your family's support. First rule: Remember--you can change jobs but you can't change families. I'm 42 and a late starter in the IT industry, because I have always put my family's needs first; the roadblocks finally got moved out of the way, my husband backs me wholeheartedly, and I'm looking for a job while still excelling at the one I have. It's not about balance, it's about priorities. You really cannot have "it all" nor should you try to fool yourself into believing that you should have "it all." You concentrate most on what matters most and the rest either drops in or drops out. An IT career is no more demanding than an Accounting career or a Law career or an Business career--it's what you plan to do with it and to put into it and where you want to go with it.
Me, I like computers. I like networks. I like security. But I LOVE my family, and if what I'm doing will serve my family better, I'll do it. If not, it'll have to wait. | |
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| I'm a Systems Admin at a company and I own my own small business. And I'm a mom to an 11 year old, who put up with me when I went back to school to upgrade 4 years ago- and I was a single mom at the time (I've recently gotten married again so things are a bit smoother at home). Just remember that IT is demanding but so is your family - and in the end, who is going to look after you in your old age 
Seriously - you have one family. With the IT job market the way it is, your job might not be there next year. But your family will be. And kids grow up fast. You'll spend a lot of late nights working when they are sleeping - but it's worth it to spend time with them. | |
| ciscopagina 2004-06-01, 9:50 am |
| No advertising in this forum! |
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