IT career women - Need a little insight

Author

Need a little insight

katgotsteve

2001-09-13, 7:36 am

I am so happy to find a forum geared towards women IT pros. I live in a small town in south Georgia and it is hard for a woman to break into a "man's" world. I often get rejected and brushed off by my "fellow" IT pros in this area. I have to work twice as hard and make half as much. I have certifications in Microsoft (MCP working on my MCSE), Cisco (CCNA), and Novell (CNE) and I can not get any one to pay me a decent wage. I worked with several guys that only had A+ cert and they made $5-6 more an hour than me and did not have more experience. My employer never even offer to pay for the cert. test. Do yall have any advice to make them take me serious?

Kasor

2001-09-16, 4:08 pm

Are u a Network Support or Engineer?

It happen to many people (both Man and Woman), specially if you are working on small size of company.

Look into the management prospective, all manager want pay less, but efficient worker.

Also, they said the market is bad!!!!

However, if u move to NYC right now.. U might able to get a job very soon.

katgotsteve

2001-09-17, 6:22 am

I think I will pass on the NYC trip. I am both support, engineer and administrator of my company's network and other networks in the area. I am a jack of all trades I guess.
thanks for the insight and any other thoughts will be welcome.

stefanw

2001-09-17, 7:43 am

I would suggest trying to be an expert in one particular field, not trying to be good at everything. Get as much experience as possible then back up that experience with qualifications.

I am a male in the IT industry but I have never made differences to female colleagues. Where I work, your are paid for your skills and time not for what sex you are.

Good Luck

smchadwic

2001-09-17, 1:47 pm

Hello everyone.

I feel as though I have found a long lost relative. I too am a female hoping to make a career change from an Administrative Assistant with an Associates degree in Business Administration to a Techie!

I don't want to spend thousands of dollars and end up in the wrong place. When deciding to make a career change, the one thing that I knew was that I love Computers. I taught myself Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Dreamweaver, Frontpage, and many other programs. Although I love graphics, I really don't want to venture further in that direction. Networking is the place to be.

As someone else stated, I'm not sure where to start, especially since my money is tight.

stefanw

2001-09-18, 2:05 am

Maybe try getting a job as phone support for small sized lan's. Phone support is a great way to learn, as it makes you imagine what the customer has in front of them and makes you think a lot about what the problem could be, as you dont have the equipment in front of you. Just a thought . . .

smchadwic

2001-09-18, 7:57 am

I have applied for every "Entry Level" type help desk or phone support position that has been listed on the job boards. I live in Indiana and this is a state that is somewhat based on who you know...not what you know. I've been praying that GOD be gracious. In the meantime, I'm staying focus and trying to learn everything that I can.

If anyone has the hook-up in Indianapolis, I'd sure would appreciate some help.

Sotet

2001-09-21, 10:58 pm

my turn here:

I love the IT field overall, but I, too, have been viewed as "less qualified" for more technical positions, because simply being a woman. (I know there are other factors, such as kissing XXX, which I don't do and not being specialized in one area, such as Unix Administration)

It is quite frustrating not get noticed, when you know it is your sex. My company is midsized and you get promoted mostly on who you know and who likes you. Very few women have been promoted at my company, and the few who have, have definitely "played games, to be liked (kiss ups)"

I made complaints about this to HR, but all was ignored and I knew that if I continued to complain, I would be viewed as a troublemaker and overall, it did not help complaining. No one wants complaining, especially managers, so when promotion time comes up, you are overlooked. Ironically, some of the most caustic complainers at my company, males, have been promoted.

"Corporate games" must be played everywhere. You need to wear the mask of enthusiasm at work to get noticed. Complainers can get somewhere, but less so.

Sotet

2001-09-21, 11:04 pm

hey Katgotsteve !

... I know this little town, too.

My husband is originally from Colquitt County, very near by. I know Sylvester is quite small, flat and humid with all the palm trees and moss, actually that is more down in Thomasville....

I think South GA is very charming, but way too small for most any industry to find jobs.

Wow, and to think there are tech jobs there.

=)

small world it is...

ciscogirl

2001-09-24, 11:32 am

Hi All - I've got an A+, MCSE (both NT & 2000), CCNA and am partway through my CCNP. Can't find a job though to save my soul. At this rate I expect to be head clerk in a Taco Bell and call my CCIE a "hobby"...oh well, at least I'm having a lot of fun learning all this. Anyone looking for a job should probably not consider Tucson, Arizona as a good place to relocate. Gotta keep on studying, though. Another test to take next week.

Pascalle

2001-09-25, 6:32 am

Hi All,

I can't imagine that you woman can't find a job that fast. I mean with the knowledge you all have!! I'm a woman myself, almost taking my ccna exam. I started at this job a year and a half ago without any knowledge!! I made my way up here which I'm very proud of...didn't know a thing but i'm getting there now..

Thank god i don't have any problems with men at work or a salary difference, they are all really helpfull. I don't have to hesitate with asking questions or be scared to think that they all find me stupid. Hey, we all have to learn right?

Just want to say, be a XXXXX!! And just get what you deserve if it can't go on a normal waqy!!

limsam

2001-09-26, 7:54 pm

Hi

I am sure there are low-paid-highly-qualified experts in men and women. It is not related to women only.

You have to always take a risk. That means you have to chane the job. When I get my MCSE (I have a 4-yr-engineering degree), my ex-company refused to pay me even a small increment. MCSE were at a good demand at that time. I resigned straight away, even before getting a new job. And I found a job for almost double the salary I had been getting in the ex-company.

Now, I am more qualified and more experienced. But, my company is not paying a raise because of the bad economy. Now, I am building my self and calculating.

Moral: Take a calculated risk.

Thanks
LS

merav21

2001-10-03, 6:49 pm

Hey even though I'm not female I thought this was a pretty interesting discussion. Its so hard right now to get a foot in the door at a company....I've always loved working with computers and wanted to go for MCSE and certs...never really got a chance to though until about a year and a half ago. I figured A+ and Network + would at least let me get my foot in the door, then an MCP pursuing MCSE would get me a pretty good job. Well, I(as many other people)were wrong!! Even after acquiring a year and a half experience as a bench tech(while also doing rollouts of NT etc)I couldn't even land an entry level desktop support or help desk position...because even though I had the certifications my experience was "bench" tech and therefore not the "right" experience. It really seemed like if you didn't already have 5-10 experience for any kind of job, you were automatically dismissed as incompetent. But, I eventually did get an IT job...so for you all of you who are getting pretty bitter about all the work you've put in...studying, etc....just stick with it and it will eventually pay off...male or female.

I know how frustrating it is though...

Andrew

limsam

2001-10-04, 3:32 am

Hey even though I'm not female I thought this was a pretty interesting discussion

Neither am I a women. But, we also can discuss these issues.

And you know, who reads most of the womens' magazines ?

rgds
LS

Identcc

2001-10-30, 8:21 pm

I think it's refreshing to even hear about women interested in the techie world. I work in a large company in West Michigan where gender is irrelevant as it applies to IT. I think it would be wonderful if more women showed the interest that you and some of the other women here have shown, and not only do I applaud your determination, I encourage you to keep at it. It's been my experience that generally the larger and more "progressive" a company is, the more likely it is (as it is with our company) that qualifications and experience--not gender--are what is important.

Lushpuff

2001-10-31, 4:14 am

I'd just like to say that I too was a struggling female trying to break into IT a couple of years ago. I think that the key to acheiving your aspirations is to go where the work is. I had to move 200 miles north (I live in England by the way) just to get a really base help desk job. I must have e-mailed about 500 agencies to get this job. I did well there and then had to move back down south again to work on a large Windows 2000 project. I've now been working for about 2 1/2 years and I've just got a job with Microsoft in the UK. Work hard, don't let men put you off or down for that matter either. Actions speak louder than words so show your talents that way. Use the advantage that you have of being a woman in IT and never sell out to get where you want. You are only pandering to mens whims if you do! Good luck

c4swann

2001-10-31, 12:34 pm

From what I gather it seems we are all in the same boat ladies as far as career/pay are concerned in the IT market. I also work as a Network Admin. been with the company for four years now and wear many hats. I'm told often that I'm doing a great job and oh yea how cute I'am can't forget about that one. Yes my company is a "boys club" and I'm even ok with that, I know it gives them somthing to do. My complaint has always been I know I'm not paid a fair wage for what I do. The best part is when they decided to hire me a male assistant that I had to train from the ground up and paid him the same wage I was getting. I know I need to do somthing. I was walking by an office today and saw three guys staring at the pc screen I couldn't resist girls I had to ask "How many men does it take to screww in a light bulb" The funniest thing, they all turned and looked at me with this blank look.
In conclusion I'm by nature an upbeat person. I do refuse to let it get me down. I always look forward to tomorrow.

jenlion

2001-11-01, 2:54 pm

I'm here in this too. Been out of college (computer science minor) for a year and a half and couldn't find a programming job to save my life. Got in as "technical services technician" with VERY low pay soon after. I had absolutely no knowledge of any NT-server based anything, no networking, nothing. Wound up gradually doing more and more, though, and now I *am* the IT department -- I do all the help, all the networking, email, SQL, web pages, even telephones. Even got a new title -- IS Manager.

About a year ago an ex-employee (male and well-loved here) learned he would lose his job with the parent company and told me he had decided to just come down and take mine. I found out at that moment that I could indeed stand my ground and that I knew I was good at my job (and even the best person for it, right here, right now). Told him where to shove it. I've always had a hard time standing up for myself but boy did it feel good, and I've been able to do it ever since. I got a big raise right after. I'm still underpaid, knowing what some other people here make, but not by all that much. I'm working on it.

I'm taking my first Microsoft test Wednesday the 7th -- chose 70-029 because it can be used toward so many certs, and I haven't decided which one I want yet...

Odd when people refer to me as "computer guy" -- I haven't decided yet if it's insulting or good that they say it without thinking. Usually I don't bother correcting them.

Good luck to everyone. There's a niche for all of us, it's just tough to find sometimes, and you have to stick out the crap to get to the good stuff.

permanentmid

2001-11-05, 6:52 am

Its gonna be 2002 soon , and women are still harping about getting into a man's world , how tough it is and so on , gimme a break !!!

Has not the playing field been level , to your satisfaction yet , or were you expecting a break just because you are female , it seems that at some point there is always a gal who feels , like a guppy in the world of sharks , well get over it already , and stop blaming men because things are sooooooo tough.

After all it is the IT Field , its unfortunate that there are not enough women in the field , but that's no reason , to feel , like you are cornered .

If you wanna lay some blame , you can thank the women's magazines , and media for grooming young women into believing that there is some kinda future in easybake ovens and barbie parties , you can also thank the women in your lives for giving you purty dolls and frilly dresses.

The thing is that boys get introduced into tech very early in life , why not girls , i dunno , perhaps its because they get moulded into their mothers who want them to be models , and beauty queens

But too many mothers deem the internet bad , and video games violent , failing to see how an early introduction into games for example can teach you levels , skills and give you tools , to make strategic decisions , but by not introducing girls to computers , its right there is where you doom your girls into being unprepared for , jobs that pay well , and a career that they can be proud of , sad but true.

Save the next generation from all that crap , and buy your daughters a PC this christmas.

c_littles

2001-11-05, 10:02 am

I have to put my 2 cents in here.

I am a female. I am not a kiss XXX, a blamer, or a women's libber thinking I can get something for nothing....

So my statement to everyone who thinks women moan to much.... We have the right. I was born with the right to say "no", "up yours", and "it isn't fair."

Your Statement
"If you wanna lay some blame , you can thank the women's magazines , and media for grooming young women into believing that there is some kinda future in easybake ovens and barbie parties , you can also thank the women in your lives for giving you purty dolls and frilly dresses."

I am so tired of hearing the same crap. You know what... We aren't groomed for a life easy bake ovens... My mother never told me I have to make a good wife some day. That I should cater to a man and be Happy Holly Homemaker. I being a women enjoy doing things for my boyfriend. As he enjoys doing them for me... Does it somehow seem he does some more laboring chores then me... Yep... We have a partnership... We are Equal in that partnership although we do not always carry the same burdens....

Gees.... Pretty little dresses have nothing to do with it... I can wear a pretty little dress and still be intelligent. So what you are saying is if I take pride in myself... and put on a dress I am somehow less likely to make it in this world?

Girls today have access to computers... They have them in schools and alot of them have them on there homes. So, wait you are saying in a home with 2 girls and 1 boy the parents buy the little boy the computer and the girls don't use it...

Video games ARE violent...
So is TV... My question is does this effect us????
Does seeing on TV time after time women viewed in sexual, demoralizing ways have an effect on our children? or on us? How many women are viewed beautiful, intelligent, and supported by men???

Oh let's place blame... I blame myself for not encouraging children today. I blame society for force feeding sex sells down my throat for the past several years...
Look at the younger generation...
I blame our schools, our parents, our government... and sir I blame you!!! What are you doing to help? Other then feeding the fire of blame?

You are not a women... you will never be...
Do you know what it is like to walk into a room full of IT professionals and be gawked at... yes that will happen when you are beautiful... but do you know how it feels when people don't look at you as intelligent because you are beautiful? What is your first thought when you see Cindy Crawford.... I highly doubt it is boy she look powerful or intelligent... Now if a man is good-looking we automatically think power and intelligence. Do I think it is fair...

NO WAY....

Am I going to let it get me down... Maybe some days... It is something I deal with on a daily basis... Not daily...
I have choices though... I can do my part... I can lend and hand and an ear to the next women in line...
Why don't you help out instead of bash us because we feel we don't get a fair shake...

Why is it we have to become masculine to be considered powerful... I am very emotional. (Which somehow went from being a positive to a negative) Now they call that high maintainence! I wear dresses. Does it annoy you when women are emotional???
Women are a mighty creature... As are men... We both with our differences compliment each other... Why is it we can't accept that and move on???? Why can't we help each other in stead of bash each other?

I am a beautiful women. I am a CCNA and MCSE. I am intelligent... and quite thankful. I am thankful to be alive. I am thankful to be working. I just pray that one day more and more men and women instead of criticizing
lend others (men and women) a hand.

permanentmid

2001-11-05, 1:21 pm

This was not meant to be a bash ,I knew that it would be viewed that way , no doubts about that one , just an opinion , but it does reflect what I said , issues , issues , issues , why do you care what other people say , think or feel .

You talk about cindy crawford , a has been , binge and barf example , i mean really how can anyone take her seriously , but she's the one having a celery stick for lunch , she's the one signing million dollar contracts , she is not setting a good example for women yet she is not critized , and why is'nt that abusive and bad for kids.

Why are pre-teen girls , looking thinner and thinner , more sad and depressed , in the centuaries past , women in europe were full bodied and full figured , and the men loved it , what would happen if every woman threw out a bathroom scale , or low fat cheese, don't you think men would adjust , their preconcieved notions ?

If you bend to society's definations of what or who you should be you are never gonna be happy in this world , I'll tell you one thing , I did not make up the rules I just play the game , u think that men have it easy , that everything is a picnic for us , you don't get into tha boyz club , we have to work at it , maybe even harder than you do , we gotta bite down and take it in , we don't get to whine.

You make it sound like women have the greatest , sisterhood going , yet i have seen women treat each other like crap , i have seen power trippin female bosses , treat female subordinates like dirt. what do you think of that?

Again I did not make the rules , but assertion is something that women really need to work on if they want to last in this or any other male dominated industry , you have to develop a think skin , and sometimes yes emotions are viewed as a sign of weakness, real life has a way of forcing you to develop a thick skin , or you just fold up and die.

c_littles

2001-11-05, 3:25 pm

You do make several good points... And as you said everyone has their opinion. Something I really like. It is actually quite refreshing that everyone doesn't see things the same way as me... I often learn alot and see new view points.

Cindy Crawford being a well known example.
Ok you say a celery stick for lunch...
Se how quickly we judge people. Do you know what she eats? She isn't a twig as most of us would like to believe. She is not a size 1-2... That is my point... we automatically assume that since she is a fashion model she has certain characteristics. Those which I mind you are unfortunately purveyed to men and women alike as the thing to be....

Be skinny.. Be Comfy... Be what you want... My point is be happy with whatever you are at this moment in time.... Just be healthy

I don't have a bathroom scale. Never have and never will... I know my body... I don't need a scale telling me uh oh you are 10lbs over what God knows who says I should be...

I agree with you.... Teen girls are either looking thinner and thinner.. or larger and larger... There is a major obsession with physical appearances... That which there is a fine line. I take care of myself. I wear make-up and do my hair when I have time. Do I have a nervous breakdown when I gain 5lbs.... no I myself don't.... Do alot of women? Yes... As sad as it is to say... I have a girlfriend whose 9 year old daughter is worried about her weight... Come on... What are we doing to the younger generation? I was still out playing when I was 9... That is what bothers me... So young and to have all these worries...

Of course just generalizing... Many women today find their worthiness and value based on their appearance... Somewhere along the line they have gotten the notion that if they aren't what some magazine, article, or belief system says they should be that they are worth nothing.... That bothers me... Do I personally care what other people think... Yes and no... Would I care if you called me names and said I was>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever. No that wouldn't bother me... I am secure with who I am...

I am human though. I am not made of stone. On bad days hey it might bother me if someone I am close to says something to me.... That is part of being a human being. Feelings are not right or wrong they just are... Why place judgement on them.

I am on my own little journey in this world. I myself have not gotten to a place where nothing bothers me... Although I am getting there. I choose to look at things like this... All attack is a cry for help. Usually when I put someone down it is something I am not secure with inside myself. That also goes the other way around... Have you ever noticed if you take a step back you can see why the person is upset and you know it has nothing to do with you??? I have... So I don't take it personal.

Unfortunately... This attack mode... This can be conveyed for men and women... The women you spoke of... The ones who will trash other women... Cat fights... sabotage.

Again... this is something we have to look at as a whole... Men and Women alike... Women just handle it differently...
We somewhere inside of ourselves feel that if Joe Schmoe succeeds then we can't... That he has taken our shot.. Our piece of the pie... That we are then destined for a life of poverty. Think about that for a minute....

On to The Boys Club
You speak of the boys club... not being a man I can't totally relate but I can understand. I have many guy friends. I often see my friends acting and saying things just to feel accepted... They aren't always bad and negative things... but it is a shame... Why does a guy have to act like he is the prick in his intimate relationship??? Why if he is nice to his girl they call him a P***Y? I don't know... I guess these things are learned along the way...

My question is this... Are we going to go with the flow or make the changes??? I myself am going to make the changes. I may not move mountains... but if I can make life alittle easier for the next one to pass along... I have succeeded....

Now....
Your quote
"Again I did not make the rules , but assertion is something that women really need to work on if they want to last in this or any other male dominated industry , you have to develop a think skin , and sometimes yes emotions are viewed as a sign of weakness, real life has a way of forcing you to develop a thick skin , or you just fold up and die."

Several questions here....

Ok you say in your first post the playing field is level for men and women... but here you are saying a male dominated industry we have to develop a thick skin???

Assertion is one thing... I agree women need to be more assertive.
But giving up the many gift a women brings to the table is another... I am very assertive. And yes I too at one point in my life thought emotions were a sign of weakness... The funny part is... WE ALL SHOW EMOTIONS everyday... That solemn look on your face... The game face... Hell that is to much work and really not all that fun now is it. I am proud to be me... all my quarks... my hissy fits.... My bursts of laughter... my mistakes... In this industry our jobs are fixing problems... I am not going to be Mrs.Ballbuster all the time just to fit in... and well to be quite honest... Where I am at now... I am ok. Mainly because I am fortunate to work with a group of men who appreciate women... They come and ask me questions... They treat me as an equal in intelligence. They are honest and they are real. Do they sometimes feel dumb? I am sure... Funny thing is why do they feel so safe coming to me as saying oh god I feel like a dumba** I just did this...

Society is the way it is for how ever many reasons... We have to choose how we live life... People can debate for centuries on who is better... I simply think we both have many gifts to bring to the table... I am going to live my life that way... It has worked for me so far. I can still wake up each morning and look at myself in the mirror with love

Kartemy

2001-11-05, 9:20 pm

Well, this is an age old discussion, isn't it? I can't speak, obviously, for all women, but I haven't encountered much discrimination. When I went back to school it was a small class and the one guy I kept betting on tests and certs (he was a baby of 21) had a hard time dealing but my instructors were only ever encouraging.

When we went for our job placement interviews, that 21 year old and I were up against each other for the good one and I won. He was the only one that had a problem with it.

We ended up at the same job and he has never been given a better rating or been put ahead of me. Not only am I a woman but I am (slightly) older.

I wish all of us had this same experience but I have had to deal with the bigotry in my own home. A husband who thinks I was born knowing how to use the washer and dryer because I have breasts!

Just keep going. I know that that will never cure the problem of set in their ways HR people but there are good ones out there. Don't give up!

Kartemy

Never give up, never surrender!

Sponsored Links