| Author |
College degree or CCIE ?
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| Dave Penner 2001-12-11, 11:32 am |
| Greetings all. I'd appreciate everyone's input on this issue. I can get my Bachelors degree in about 2 years going back part time. On the other hand I could probably get my CCIE done in 1 year. Anybody out there have any input on this ? I'm leaning more towards college since the degree never really expires. (And you don't have to renew it every two years  )
Thanks much.
Dave | |
| darthfeces 2001-12-11, 12:11 pm |
| i work with more doctorate type than i can think
of and most of them can't boot their computer
and when they click on a virus "its the networks fault"
i'm doing it in reverse ccie = money
then i'll go back to finish my 1/2 degree | |
| sidodgers 2001-12-11, 4:18 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by darthfeces
i work with more doctorate type than i can think
of and most of them can't boot their computer
and when they click on a virus "its the networks fault"
i'm doing it in reverse ccie = money
then i'll go back to finish my 1/2 degree
Amen,
I've completed 3 semesters of a 4 year degree and currently have it on hold as I really can't be stuffed dealing with it at the minute. I figure if I really want to bother, i'll do it part time after I've got my CCIE (hopefully by the end of Jan 02, I booked the written exam today for Friday (ugh).)
Darth, good luck on your written, if I remember correctly you're sitting it today. Let me know how ya get on.
Sid | |
| darthfeces 2001-12-11, 6:47 pm |
| thanks,
i'll post my results and impressions as soon as
i have a clue after the test
than i'll take a couple of weeks off until
christmas.
(before my wife files the divorce papers)
| |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-11, 8:05 pm |
| good luck guys i hope so you will make it | |
| jdoran 2001-12-11, 8:36 pm |
| CCIE is worth about $120k/year with experience....WITHOUT a degree. How much is you're Bachelors going to add to your paycheck???? CCIE all the way man..
Peace out...and good luck on the CCIE | |
| mcoates 2001-12-12, 1:07 am |
| guys
I worked for 5 years in Telecoms, before I resigned and finished my last year of my degree.
It was a drag and lingers and hangs over your head. My advice is to get the degree done and out of the way.
The fact is that you are not going to want to play with routers forever and you will want to eventually become management...this is where the degree pays...remember, in 2 years time, Cisco routers could be a thing of the past and what will you have...only the degree will be useful then.
Today I also got my CCNA. I did it just by reading the Sybex book by Lammle...it can be a hard book to read and the 640-507 CCNA 2.0 Exam Notes contain about 6 mistakes.
I'm gonna do the CCNP 12 day boot camp in Sydney, Australia in Feb 2002. Has anyone done it and what did you think?
Mike | |
| MadChef 2001-12-12, 5:31 am |
| I'm with Mike on this. There's a glass ceiling for people without degrees, especially now that good IT people aren't so hard to come by. What does the degree buy you? Written and communication skills are the two most important for me. Co-workers who have their degrees in some various form of business are able to leverage their business understanding with clients or employers instead of being just a bit head. My degree and the skills I acquired getting that degree is the reason I'm the lead engineer or managing projects staffed by CCIEs when I don't have my IE. A CCIE without extensive project management skills and a degree, I think, is limited in what he or she can do. That's been my experience at least.
MadChef | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-12, 5:59 am |
| If you do distance learning information system/Information technology degree then will there be any value for that ? because i also wana do degree . But i can't go and attend classes in any univertity . What do you guys think will it visible ? or the time which i am gona spend in degree spend that time to get more certifications ? | |
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| I've been thinking about this myself for a while. I want to do pre sales/consultancy and am wondering if not having a degree is going to hold me back.
Out of the 5 guys I work with only one has a degree and I earn the same as him - although he has lots more experience.
A local Uni to be does a masters degree part time and when I spoke to them they said they would seriously consider me due to all the experience I have in the real world.
I'm going to do the CCNP first, then try and fit in the masters, or if they don't let me on it, a bachelors next. The CCNP will give me the short term benefits and then the degree, by which time I will have substantial Cisco experience - and my CCNP will need renewing - so it all starts again!! | |
| mcoates 2001-12-12, 2:27 pm |
| Guys
Dont be blinded by the money paid for CCIE's.
If they pay 120k, then there is obviously a reason and that might be that they expect you to work 60+ hours a week...
Also, people need to stop accumulating paper qualifications without practical skills...there are so many CCNPs from China and India who have learnt word for word, but couldnt build a network to save themselves...I have seen this real hand.
In my last job we used to get job applicants from Asia which were highly qualified but it was obvious from their CVs that thay couldnt communicate well and had no real life experience.
To work well you need a balance of commercial and technical skills and do not undervalue corporate communication skills.
Mike | |
| sidodgers 2001-12-12, 4:02 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mcoates
Guys
Dont be blinded by the money paid for CCIE's.
If they pay 120k, then there is obviously a reason and that might be that they expect you to work 60+ hours a week...
Also, people need to stop accumulating paper qualifications without practical skills...there are so many CCNPs from China and India who have learnt word for word, but couldnt build a network to save themselves...I have seen this real hand.
In my last job we used to get job applicants from Asia which were highly qualified but it was obvious from their CVs that thay couldnt communicate well and had no real life
experience.
To work well you need a balance of commercial and technical skills and do not undervalue corporate communication skills.
Mike
This is true, and it's indicitive of the vacuum between the CCNP and the CCIE that only ~6000 people have a CCIE but countless tens (hundreds) of thousands have a CCNP (disclaimer: i have a CCNP,) considering the fact that the knowledge required is roughly the same. You wouldn't be able to take mr John "i-come-from-china-and-memorised-CCNP-braindumps" Smith, throw him into a CCIE lab and give him any chance of passing; but for people who actually learned the knowledge required and practice it every day, certifications are a good yardstick of that. The practical focus of the CCIE, more so.
I think the difference between industry certification and university degrees comes down to this: the point of certification, to a large extent, is to provide employers with proof that you actually do know what you say you do. The point of a degree is to learn what you don't, and come out of it with a piece of paper saying that you belong to the 'intellectual elite' (this is less the case now than it was even five years ago, however.)
Back to my original point, however, I imagine that CCIEs get paid 120-160K base salary because
1. the skills tested in the CCNP and CCIE course are very hard to posess competently.
2. the amount of learning required justifies the six figures
and
3. every other professional with a comparable knowledge base has a similar salary (lawyers, good doctors, et cie et ca.)
Sid | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-14, 5:45 am |
| none of you answer my question ? my question is that distance learning bachelors degree in IS/IT has any value or not ? or the time which i will spend in that the same time i can spend to get some other certifications ? what do you suggest ? | |
| junovtv 2001-12-14, 11:44 am |
| A degree will take you farther than certifications. Certifications will expire eventually because technology is always changing. The final destination in any position in any field is management and that's where the degree will help you. Management skills will never expire and I'm pretty sure none you guys (and gals) want to be 60 years old studying for another cert.
-junovtv | |
| mcoates 2001-12-14, 2:00 pm |
| it is worthless and a waste of time...
with cheating and dubious quality, it is not worth the time and money as employers will not recognise it like a conventional degree.
Spend you money doing a proper degree of certification. | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-14, 2:50 pm |
| what if i do degree from washington international university ? because the problem with me is that i can't left my job & where i am there is no university . | |
| mcoates 2001-12-14, 4:49 pm |
| To get a degree, you must immerse yourself in the culture and learning environment. It will still only be viewed as a paper certificate... | |
| dmaftei 2001-12-14, 11:32 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mcoates
It will still only be viewed as a paper certificate...
I'm not so sure about that. There are places and places. It wouldn't bother me at all to get an online degree from MIT or Havard, for instance. If this "washington international" is a serious institution, go for it. However, nothing can replace the feeling of "immersing yourself in the culture and learning environment", as mcoates puts it (and I completely, absolutely, definitely agree with him/her).
Do I still need to spell my answer to the original question? | |
| mcoates 2001-12-14, 11:53 pm |
| Only you can answer your original question...if you are not sure, go see a careers advisor. | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-15, 4:04 am |
| well washington international university demands that you should have atleast 3 years of experience in IT field and you can do degree in 12 months . if you don't mind please check this site also
www.washint.edu
I will check with any carrier advisor also & some one told me that do diatance learning degree so you can have it in you CV . Atleast some thing is better then nothing . | |
| mcoates 2001-12-15, 5:36 am |
| A diploma is a 12 month course. A degree is a 3/4 year course. Anything that can be done in 1 year is not a degree.
If you are so sure about it do it then, but beware that your money may be better spent elsewhere. | |
| darthfeces 2001-12-15, 7:20 am |
| TTl exceded | |
| The Reamer 2001-12-15, 8:40 am |
| The only thing I don't see on the web site is anything relating to accreditation. I would check that before spending any money with any degree program.
Reamer | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-16, 6:11 am |
| they are offering bachelors of science in information system & informtion technology in 3090 $ only . 1 year program with 3 years experience atleast . quiet cheap ? duh . what are your opinions now ? | |
| dmaftei 2001-12-16, 9:20 am |
| quote:
from the Washington International University
Bachelor of Science in Computer Systems & Information Technology $3300.00
Master of Science in Computer Systems & Information Technology $3600.00
Doctor of Philosophy in Computer Systems & Information Technology $4050.00
I didn't have time to dig too much around the WIU site, but from what I've seen it is not quite right. Bachelor for $3300?! Master for $3600?!?! Ph.D for $4050?!?!?! This looks a lot buying yourself a degree, as opposed to earning it.
My 2c | |
| mcoates 2001-12-16, 11:11 pm |
| A CV which said you had got your degree in 1 year would be the first one to go in the rubbish. | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-17, 9:42 am |
| then you tell me what should i do ? I had only ccna & ccnp uptill now . Should i keep on doing more & more certifications like solaris ,linux,ccie........ ? | |
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| Hasseb,
In the UK we have a University called The Open University (http://www.open.ac.uk/), all they do is correspondence courses, some of which have a residential period of up to 2 weeks.
This university is well respected and is arguably ranked third in the UK behind Oxford and Cambridge (which you may of heard of).
One of the things they offer is Approved Prior Learning which takes into account all the previous training and work experience completed, this could include part degree courses already started.
One of the reasons they are so well respected is that most people who complete a degree course with them also hold down a full time job - it is a massive commitment, they recommend that you take 6 years, with no prior experience it is a minimum of 3 years, but depending on your experience could be as little as 1 year. Yes you have to pay to do the course, but your certainly not paying for the qualification.
I guess that thre is probably uni's in Kuwait or Pakistan which could help you out
As I said earlier, when I have my CCNP I will be looking towards a degree, possibly with the aforementioned uni but probably not as my local uni has expressed that they may also accept my previous experience.
Hasseeb, It's up to you and depends very much on your personal ambitions, just like a puppy, a degree is for life - the CCNP only lasts 3 years.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that employers aren't narrow minded when looking for employees, as long as it's from a reputable organisation an employer will understand the hard work and dedication which has gone into it - even if it only took 1 year.
Good luck. | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-17, 2:28 pm |
| In kuwait only kuwaity nationals can study in the university by law. In pakistan there are best universities which are offering these kind of degrees and they are also approved i would love to go to pak for my degree but my problem is that i can't left the job from kuwait . My wish to do degree first but because of some reasons i am doing job anyway thankyou everybody for your kind help . Mat P i will try this site also
haseeb | |
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| does anybody know of Universities in the US that do distance learning and give credit towards degree for work experience??? I have checked out University of Phoenix, which has an online degree program, but its a bit pricey and has a lot of fill in courses that strectch the program out. I have all my undergrad requirments done, now im searching for the right degree and program to finish it off. But I havent found any program worth the time at this point. I have been working in IT for about 5 years, the last 2 as a network engineer. I would say 1-2 people I have worked with over these years had their college degree. And they werent the ones making big money either. I think a bacheolers wont help much if you already have the experience, but If you suck it up and spend some extra time for a masters, then you really hit on something.. If anyone knows of programs condusive to the working class, please drop a line.
thanks | |
| FastIP 2001-12-18, 1:38 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by 007
does anybody know of Universities in the US that do distance learning and give credit towards degree for work experience???
thanks
007
check this link out.
www5.open.edu
Haseeb, I think this university only accepts applications from people living in the U.S.A.
But maybe this might be worth taking a look at.
The British Council in Kuwait offers you the chance to make sure your knowledge is recognized. We have many international exams for all ages and in many different subjects including: English Language exams, UK secondary school exams, professional exams, British university exams, distance learning exams and music exams.
www.britishcouncil.org/kuwait/education/kuwexams.htm
FastIP | |
| FastIP 2001-12-18, 1:46 pm |
| Haseeb_Eng,
Also found this searching Google,
http://www.open.ac.uk/collaborate/news.htm
Ther Open University has made a joint partnership with Kuwait
Open University signs agreement to establish Arab OU
The Arab Gulf Programme for United Nations Development Organisation (AGFUND) is working with the Open University to set up an Arab OU which aims to enrol 40,000 students over the next five years from Kuwait and a number of Arab states.
Students will enrol in 2002 and initially the Arab OU will offer courses delivered in the English language. These are a BA in Business Studies; a BA in English Language and Literature; and the BSc in IT and Computing. OU courses will be adapted to meet local needs.
I hope this helps.
FastIP | |
| FastIP 2001-12-18, 2:10 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by haseeb_eng
If you do distance learning information system/Information technology degree then will there be any value for that ? because i also wana do degree . But i can't go and attend classes in any univertity . What do you guys think will it visible ? or the time which i am gona spend in degree spend that time to get more certifications ?
I have just started a MEng with Open University in the UK as well as holding down a full time job. It will take me about 8 years to complete, but the beauty of it is that I can shape the degree to whatever speciality I want to go into ( electrical engineering, telecoms, systems management etc...) And the Open Uni will design a program specifically for your individual needs and will ensure that it is recognised by the IEEE ( if you want to become chartered).
And Haseeb - in response to your question whether it is visible. It definitely is. I went to an interview the other day and the line manager was an Electrical Engineer who had retired from the army. He was impressed that I had long term ambitions and plans.
It will require discipline to fit in this program of study with my CCNP and CCIE study, not to mention looking after a family.
Good luck to all those striving to become better qualified. | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-20, 1:47 am |
| thankyou everybody for your kind help i think so this wil help me out
haseeb | |
| mcoates 2001-12-20, 2:27 am |
| 8 years....you can murder your wife and be out of jail faster than that....
took me 5 years to do mine part time...and its a 3 year degree... | |
| dmaftei 2001-12-20, 7:17 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mcoates
8 years....you can murder your wife and be out of jail faster than that....
You've got pretty lax laws down there... | |
| haseeb_eng 2001-12-24, 1:21 pm |
| FastIp in 8 years you dono where the world will be i.e may be at that time you will find new technologies & lots of changes will be there in IT . I would like to know what make you think that you should go for 8 years degree ? would you like to share with me ? | |
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| I started the Meng, with the OU but got bored after year 1 (actually just after starting year 1). Just like any degree, especially IT the knowledge is out of date within a few years (except history degrees!!) The OU do however keep theres upto date and bring new courses out to reflect new technologies.
Also with the M Eng, you can get a diploma after 2 years, degree after 6 years and then the Masters - always goals to aim for. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the recommended time is 8 years, it is possiblr to do it in 4 years or even less if they accept any prior knowledge.
It's probably worth you talking to the uni about the open university collaboration.
Good luck.
Mcoates - earlier you were knocking degrees which were too quick - now theyre too long??? | |
| FastIP 2001-12-25, 7:50 am |
| I'm doing my 1st year also of my MEng with OU.
I hope I don't get bored.
This is something that I've always wanted to do. If it helps me in my career then that's an added bonus.
I'm also carrying on with Cisco Certification CCNP/CCIE.
FastIP | |
| chodan 2001-12-25, 9:03 am |
| I am going to get through my last MCSE 2k test this friday, then in january "try" to knock out CCDA/DP.
Then leverage my certs into college credit hours 25-30 at the local community college to get a 2 year degree in 2002. They have an associate of science with a networking option
From what I have seen it turns out people with marginal networking skills but a piece of paper.
I don`t want that piece of paper standing between me and a promotion.
I already gots the skills.
Then look at CCIE for 2002-3.
Chodan |
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