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Home > Archive > Server + > November 2002 > Building a sever, need advice
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Building a sever, need advice
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| ruscorp 2002-11-18, 10:55 am |
| Hello all,
I'm building a new server to replace our antiquated PII 333MHz box. I've already got the system all planned out however I just have one question involving SCSI. (It's not my best topic)
We're a small lawfirm with about 15 workstations that will be accessing the server for various things from 9 to 7 everyday. For a small biz like us and the amount of users we have, what would be a better bet, IDE or SCSI? Keep in mind, I'm on a tight budget and SCSI is expensive so I'm asking for everyone else's advice on what to do. Thanks for your help. | |
| Supertech 2002-11-18, 11:50 am |
| You get what you pay for. SCSI is more expensive because it is made to last longer. A Law Office - I would consider that a critical app.
I would spend the money and buy peace of mind. It's not coming out of your pocket, is it?
You could just throw a lot of IDE redundancy at the problem but you will still have to deal with it. Spend the money! | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-18, 12:32 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Supertech
You get what you pay for. SCSI is more expensive because it is made to last longer. A Law Office - I would consider that a critical app.
I would spend the money and buy peace of mind. It's not coming out of your pocket, is it?
You could just throw a lot of IDE redundancy at the problem but you will still have to deal with it. Spend the money!
Thanks supa, that's all I needed to hear. | |
| namrak 2002-11-18, 5:33 pm |
| Would agree with Supertech's comments on this matter as well ruscorp. Although you could get away with using IDE drives, RAID configuration etc etc, SCSI's performance and flexibility make it worthwhile to convince the bigwigs at the lawfirm to use it. | |
| twister166 2002-11-18, 7:30 pm |
| Well I agree if the budget is not a problem, then use SCSI is good. And if you do choose SCSI HDD, make sure that you have proper air flows. If you buy a name brand server, it should be good. If you don't, then make sure you put on thermal monitor and fan for each drive... I have already seen 3 10k driver went belly up because they have clones with lousy cases and poor fans...
If you are using clone, you may consider go with the 120GB x4 and use IDE RAID 0+1... But the most important the bigger the drive, you better have a realy good backup! IMPORTANT!!!
Good luck... | |
| rlrouns 2002-11-18, 10:11 pm |
| How much are you going to spend on this server. You can possibly get one premade, that has a 3 yr onsite warranty, etc, and not spend too much money. Especially if it is for a business. Its just a nice peice of mind to have. | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-19, 5:24 pm |
| I guess everyone is agreed here. I have to go shopping around for some cheap prices on brand names. I was thinking about saving myself the headache of building one, and just buying it whole. However the one I liked that fit my budget was IDE. I was thinking about swapping that out and putting SCSI inside instead. What do you think of that? | |
| Supertech 2002-11-19, 8:08 pm |
| Adaptec and Seagate combine forces to bring you awesome performance and rock-solid reliability. Offer your customers a powerful combination -- Ultra320 SCSI solution from the industry’s most trusted brands.
For a limited time, save up to $685 instantly by purchasing one of our power bundles!
Click here to find out more...
http://www.adaptecconnect.com/go/AdptSeagate3 | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-19, 8:15 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Supertech
Adaptec and Seagate combine forces to bring you awesome performance and rock-solid reliability. Offer your customers a powerful combination -- Ultra320 SCSI solution from the industry’s most trusted brands.
For a limited time, save up to $685 instantly by purchasing one of our power bundles!
Click here to find out more...
http://www.adaptecconnect.com/go/AdptSeagate3
Thanks Supertech, what do you think of my orginal idea though? Swapping the IDE for SCSI in a puter already built?
The Ultra320 SCSI is great! However I was looking into Ultra160 w/ two channels for disk mirroring. Again, I'm going cheap because of budget problems. | |
| Supertech 2002-11-19, 8:39 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ruscorp
Thanks Supertech, what do you think of my orginal idea though? Swapping the IDE for SCSI in a puter already built?
The Ultra320 SCSI is great! However I was looking into Ultra160 w/ two channels for disk mirroring. Again, I'm going cheap because of budget problems.
That would certainly work. | |
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| twister166 2002-11-19, 10:38 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Supertech
That would certainly work.
It will work, but for reliability you will have to make sure that the chasis is capable of dispate all the heats that's generated by the HDD... | |
| rlrouns 2002-11-20, 7:32 am |
| A good server from Tiger Direct is the IBM Netfinity 5100... It has a 3 year onsite warranty, dual ultra 160 scsi adapter. You can buy 1 or 2 hot swap scsi drives and add up to 6 as your needs increase. You can also put another processor and up to 4 gb ram. You wont find a deal like that too many other places. At a later time, you can add a raid card if you want for redundancy as well. | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-20, 9:46 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by rlrouns
A good server from Tiger Direct is the IBM Netfinity 5100... It has a 3 year onsite warranty, dual ultra 160 scsi adapter. You can buy 1 or 2 hot swap scsi drives and add up to 6 as your needs increase. You can also put another processor and up to 4 gb ram. You wont find a deal like that too many other places. At a later time, you can add a raid card if you want for redundancy as well.
rlrouns: Looks good but doesn't come with everything you stated. Am I viewing the right product? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...I71-8658RA4%20P
twister166: I'm not S+, so I don't know about chasis dispations rules. How do you know if it can dispate the heat indeed? | |
| rlrouns 2002-11-20, 10:38 am |
| That is the correct server, and it does come with a dual channel ultra160 SCSI controller. The controller is on board. One channel connects to the backplane for the hot swap hard drives, the other is an available channel to put a tape drive or other SCSI device on the server. It does not have an external SCSI connector, but there is a punch out on the back of the server where you can run a SCSI cable through if absolutely needed, which is almost never. As far as RAID goes, you can purchase an IBM ServeRAID 4lx, which will connect to one of the PCI slots then go to the SCSI backplane instead of the regular SCSI. There is space for 6 hot swap drives. The drives are a little on the high side, but well worth it. Many of the hard drives have a 5 year warranty. I am not trying to push IBM on you by any means, but they do make a darn reliable server and this is a good price. I worked in the Latin American Server Support group for over a year, and know the product inside and out. I have also worked with Dell servers, but have found IBM to be a sturdier machine, and it they seem to be of better quality as well. Let me know if you need any more information.
Robert | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-20, 10:54 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by rlrouns
That is the correct server, and it does come with a dual channel ultra160 SCSI controller. The controller is on board. One channel connects to the backplane for the hot swap hard drives, the other is an available channel to put a tape drive or other SCSI device on the server. It does not have an external SCSI connector, but there is a punch out on the back of the server where you can run a SCSI cable through if absolutely needed, which is almost never. As far as RAID goes, you can purchase an IBM ServeRAID 4lx, which will connect to one of the PCI slots then go to the SCSI backplane instead of the regular SCSI. There is space for 6 hot swap drives. The drives are a little on the high side, but well worth it. Many of the hard drives have a 5 year warranty. I am not trying to push IBM on you by any means, but they do make a darn reliable server and this is a good price. I worked in the Latin American Server Support group for over a year, and know the product inside and out. I have also worked with Dell servers, but have found IBM to be a sturdier machine, and it they seem to be of better quality as well. Let me know if you need any more information.
Robert
Still can't find "dual channel ultra160 SCSI controller" anywhere on the specifications. All I basically want to two SCSI hdds with a capacity of at least 50GB and the most memory available. | |
| rlrouns 2002-11-20, 11:36 am |
| Ok here's the skinny on that server.
the IBM machine type is an 8658-RA4. Basically it is a refurbished IBM server. It still has 3 year onsite warranty. They change the last 3 digits of the model nr for refurbished units. The actual model number would be an 8658-31Y. Here is the link to the exact specs: http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/products....Lookup/_865831Y You can put up to 218GB of storage in the server. Here is a link to the IBM Options page for this server. http://www.pc.ibm.com/qtechinfo/MIGR-4JHPPU.html I am 100% sure of this because I just got off the phone with the IBM Server Support Manager for Latin America. The server does come with a dual channel ultra 160 SCSI drive. I called TigerDirect first, and the guy didn't know too much about the server, then again he was a sales guy so he wouldn't know the exact specs. I hope this helps.
Rob | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-20, 11:41 am |
| Cool, what about the dual processor part though? | |
| rlrouns 2002-11-20, 11:47 am |
| Comes standard with one processor, you can add another. There are 2 spaces for processors. When you add the second, you need to make sure that the speed and cache are the same. Also when you add a second processor you need a VRM (voltage regulator module) If you buy the IBM Option, it comes with the VRM. It really depends on what you are doing to know whether or not you need 2 processors. Also if you decide to go the raid route, the ultra160 speed with 3 hard drives and a RAID 5 absolutely FLIES! I was installing TurboLinux on that exact server, and got to the part where it was actually installing, walked away for a minute, came back, and it was done. I was amazed. All that talk about how RAID 5 or RAID 0 makes things faster is so true! | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-20, 11:52 am |
| Okie, I got ya. So give me a run-down on what I need to buy with the info I gave you. | |
| rlrouns 2002-11-20, 12:00 pm |
| Couple of questions:
2 50 gb hard drives totaling 100gb?
What is your budget?
Why do you want 2 hard drives as opposed to 3?
what is more important, speed or redundancy?
It could get a little pricey if you want hardware raid, etc.
Do you have or need a tape backup?
Most important I guess would be the budget thing.
I hope I can help!
Rob | |
| ruscorp 2002-11-20, 12:04 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by rlrouns
Couple of questions:
2 50 gb hard drives totaling 100gb?
What is your budget?
Why do you want 2 hard drives as opposed to 3?
what is more important, speed or redundancy?
It could get a little pricey if you want hardware raid, etc.
Do you have or need a tape backup?
Most important I guess would be the budget thing.
I hope I can help!
Rob
Well in our other server we have two 37GB SCSI hdds that are nearly full. I would like the new server to have a bit more space. Both speed and redundancy are of great importantance. That's way I wanted a dual processor machine. I use DVD for bu because our tape bu's don't work. I'm going to lunch now, so please excuse my stupidity and delayed response.  |
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