Linux/Unix - beginner needs advice!

Author

beginner needs advice!

dheinsdorf

2001-12-16, 12:32 am

Hey all,
I just loaded RedHat 7.0 (came with Linux 7 Unleashed book) and I would like some links to good web sites for total Linux beginners. Something with some real quickstudy type stuff. I am a Novell diehard and am really trying to get away from Windows. I was really good at Dos and want to do get into the Linux command line asap. I used HP-UX v9.x like 7 years ago and barely remember a thing.

Thanks for any starter tips!!!

Doug

dheinsdorf

2001-12-16, 12:36 am

I forgot to mention I already found a load of such data via Google, but I am looking for some of "your" favorites/recommendations.

neuralfx

2001-12-16, 3:13 am

linuxnewbie.org is a great forum, also linuxjunior.org and linuxquestions.org , for learning commands, linuxcommand.org , linuxplanet.com , news/tips/articles/etc, rute.sourceforge.net , check out a book by O'Reilley called "Running Linux 3rd Edition", the Xwindows part is a little dated, but pretty much everything else is the same, and considered one of the best books out there ..and of course linuxdoc.org , the Linux Documentation Project, well good luck, hope this helps ..
-neural

dheinsdorf

2001-12-16, 4:46 am

quote:
Originally posted by neuralfx
linuxnewbie.org is a great forum, also linuxjunior.org and linuxquestions.org , for learning commands, linuxcommand.org , linuxplanet.com , news/tips/articles/etc, rute.sourceforge.net , check out a book by O'Reilley called "Running Linux 3rd Edition", the Xwindows part is a little dated, but pretty much everything else is the same, and considered one of the best books out there ..and of course linuxdoc.org , the Linux Documentation Project, well good luck, hope this helps ..
-neural

neural, thanks very much. 1 minute before your reply I found linuxnewbie.org and linuxcommand.org a few minutes before that.
linuxnewbie looks like the place for me. I had to write the webmaster there because I am having trouble registering for the forums for no reason apparent to me??

ccieToBe

2001-12-16, 12:55 pm

Neural already posted all my Linux favorites. Not sure if you were using this or not, but Google has a Linux specific search engine which is much better at getting relevent hits then their general search engine:

http://google.com/linux

Linuxnewbie is the site that I used the most when I was getting started and I still use it every once in a while. Their tutorials are great. Once you become comfortable with Linux also check out linuxdoc.org. They have a ton of great tutorials but I think most of them are too in depth for someone who's just getting started. I agree with neural that you should pick up a copy of Running Linux. I've never read it but I've heard so many good things about it that I think I will soon.

The great thing about the *nix world is that once you learn one variant the others are easy to pick up. You may have forgotten most of the HP-UX stuff, but I bet it will start coming back to you and that most of what you remember will apply to Linux. I don't deal much at all with Linux (use FreeBSD mostly) but they're so simular that if I want to do something with Linux it's not much of a problem, especialy when it comes to the user-land programs.

You may want to talk to chunder about this too. I remember a few months ago he made a post on how he was able to setup NDS on Linux.

http://examnotes.net/forums/showthr...8&highlight=nds

Also check out Samba. It's an app that lets Linux function as an NT/2000 file/print/domain server. Linuxnewbie has a somewhat dated, but still good tutorial on how to set this up.

dheinsdorf

2001-12-16, 4:37 pm

quote:
Originally posted by ccieToBe
Neural already posted all my Linux favorites. Not sure if you were using this or not, but Google has a Linux specific search engine which is much better at getting relevent hits then their general search engine:

http://google.com/linux

Hey ccieToBe, I was waiting for you almost specifically. Remember 6 months back when I said I was going to do this? Well I got sooo bored studying for NetTech that I finally ripped apart the cdrom in my server so I could take alky and qtip to the lens. Along with RH7 I loaded NW6 beta kit - which you should know is so freeking bitchin its insane, and I am not exaggerating (I am gonna start a NW6 thread on CNE tonight).

NO! I didnt know about the Google 4 Linux - Thanks!!

quote:

Linuxnewbie is the site that I used the most when I was getting started and I still use it every once in a while. Their tutorials are great. Once you become comfortable with Linux also check out linuxdoc.org. They have a ton of great tutorials but I think most of them are too in depth for someone who's just getting started. I agree with neural that you should pick up a copy of Running Linux. I've never read it but I've heard so many good things about it that I think I will soon.

I will get it. Unleashed has some holes in it (well placed holes) so more text is good.
linuxnewbie's site is jacked in that I couldnt register and webmasters email bounced, so I will have to look into that.

quote:

The great thing about the *nix world is that once you learn one variant the others are easy to pick up. You may have forgotten most of the HP-UX stuff, but I bet it will start coming back to you and that most of what you remember will apply to Linux. I don't deal much at all with Linux (use FreeBSD mostly) but they're so simular that if I want to do something with Linux it's not much of a problem, especialy when it comes to the user-land programs.

Seems thats a major part of the fun - all the different distros. You dont get that fun at all with windows. First bummer was I have a spare 15" Mag monitor - I have a fairly expensive Belkin OmniCube 4port PS2 - but it needa a firmware upgrade (likes to hang). Anyhow Xwindows sucks on 15". Gotta get the Belkin fixed so I can use my 19". I am trying to scale down the gui so I can learn without having to learn soo much gui. I loaded Enlightenment and got screwed up pretty fast with the tweakability. I am gonna stick with KDE and Sawfish I think.

quote:

You may want to talk to chunder about this too. I remember a few months ago he made a post on how he was able to setup NDS on Linux.

Yor reading my mind man! That thread (thanks for the url btw) stuck in my head. And now NW6 has native NFS support, wherever that fits in (theres a big article in Novell Connection this or last month).

quote:

Also check out Samba. It's an app that lets Linux function as an NT/2000 file/print/domain server. Linuxnewbie has a somewhat dated, but still good tutorial on how to set this up.

Sounds really good. If using eDirectory for Linux it probably takes place of Samba??

Heres a question. On this Linux forum on the Cheet Sheet for Linux Cert thread, Webmaster says Linux isnt that hard to learn. My question is: Is is harder or not than Netware?

Thanks again and see you around.

Doug

ccieToBe

2001-12-16, 6:11 pm

quote:
Originally posted by dheinsdorf

Hey ccieToBe, I was waiting for you almost specifically. Remember 6 months back when I said I was going to do this? Well I got sooo bored studying for NetTech that I finally ripped apart the cdrom in my server so I could take alky and qtip to the lens. Along with RH7 I loaded NW6 beta kit - which you should know is so freeking bitchin its insane, and I am not exaggerating (I am gonna start a NW6 thread on CNE tonight).

NO! I didnt know about the Google 4 Linux - Thanks!!

[B]

I will get it. Unleashed has some holes in it (well placed holes) so more text is good.
linuxnewbie's site is jacked in that I couldnt register and webmasters email bounced, so I will have to look into that.

[B]

Seems thats a major part of the fun - all the different distros. You dont get that fun at all with windows. First bummer was I have a spare 15" Mag monitor - I have a fairly expensive Belkin OmniCube 4port PS2 - but it needa a firmware upgrade (likes to hang). Anyhow Xwindows sucks on 15". Gotta get the Belkin fixed so I can use my 19". I am trying to scale down the gui so I can learn without having to learn soo much gui. I loaded Enlightenment and got screwed up pretty fast with the tweakability. I am gonna stick with KDE and Sawfish I think.

[B]

Yor reading my mind man! That thread (thanks for the url btw) stuck in my head. And now NW6 has native NFS support, wherever that fits in (theres a big article in Novell Connection this or last month).

[B]

Sounds really good. If using eDirectory for Linux it probably takes place of Samba??

Heres a question. On this Linux forum on the Cheet Sheet for Linux Cert thread, Webmaster says Linux isnt that hard to learn. My question is: Is is harder or not than Netware?

Thanks again and see you around.

Doug

Linuxnewbie's webmaster was fired when the dot coms went bust and the site's been in a state of disorder ever since. The main thing that I go to Linuxnewbie for is the set of tutorials which you can access without registering. Their discussion forums are nice but I almost never use them.

For me the origonal attraction to open source was the price, speed and stability that's available. After using *nix for a while I'm realizing the the main advantage is the flexibility. You can do a lot of things with *nix that just aren't practicle with any other OS.

I don't even use a switch box at home (have a nice one at work though

). I have SSH running on all my boxes so I can remotely controll them from either my main PC or notebook w/o any trouble. That way I don't have to worry about the switch. X Window is a client/server app too so as long as your network's fast you can controll that remotely too (just don't do that on any production boxes since X has some security holes).

The command line is where it's at. The GUI interfaces differ a lot from distro to distro while the command prompt is very simular. Knowing the command prompt well helps out when you're writing shell scripts too.

I've never even touched NFS before. It's usefull but also has security issues so I prefer sharing files over SSH. Not sure if NetWare has any SSH capabilities.

I think Linux is a lot more complicated then NetWare. NetWare looks intimidating at first (just like Linux) but IMO it's easy to figure out. It takes a while to reach even a minimal level of competency with Linux. On the plus side though I find the *nix world to be more logical about things then NetWare and A LOT more logical then Windows and Macs.

dheinsdorf

2001-12-17, 1:11 am

quote:

Linuxnewbie's webmaster was fired when the dot coms went bust and the site's been in a state of disorder ever since.

Thanks. At least I wont waste time persuing that. Thats too bad though.

quote:

while I'm realizing the the main advantage is the flexibility. You can do a lot of things with *nix that just aren't practicle with any other OS.

For sure having or not having to use the gui is apparent - plus it seems to be able to be used for about anything.

Embedded Linux is like everywhere. I was told the only network hardware vendors not using embedded nix and using proprietary IOS's are Cisco and Enterasys. You can scale down nix (from my reading) just so small its amazing.

quote:

I don't even use a switch box at home (have a nice one at work though ).

Gets rid of the extra monitors. Even though you SSH into the other boxes, you still have monitors hooked up to them. There should be some nifty blackbox.com gadget to provide like a loopback plug for video. Heck you dont use the monitors but the bios still wants one there. At work I rconj into all the servers (rconsole java - you know that one I am pretty sure). Anyhow Linux is sure better on a 19" vs. 15".

[/B][/QUOTE]
I've never even touched NFS before. It's usefull but also has security issues so I prefer sharing files over SSH. Not sure if NetWare has any SSH capabilities.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I was trying to discern just what NFS is. I thought it was like NCP on NetWare - which it is to a degree, but you cant do NetWare without NCP - and I still am not clear (I been hitting the Unleashed book) what is the equivelent of NCP on nix: say you got ext2 and the kernel. What does what NCP does and what is the default? I thought like NFS was that? Confused.

SSH uses PKI (well the book says public/private keys). And Novell doesnt do anything without PKI (blanket statement), plus Novells products are usually all NDS based which means secure. So the NFS Native File Access for nix,cifs,mac are all PKI.
Its all part of clientless access.

quote:

I think Linux is a lot more complicated then NetWare. NetWare looks intimidating at first (just like Linux) but IMO it's easy to figure out. It takes a while to reach even a minimal level of competency with Linux. On the plus side though I find the *nix world to be more logical about things then NetWare and A LOT more logical then Windows and Macs.

I think your right about the complicated part. Looking back NetWare seemed hard - but its like a facade. Its actually easy, just not always user friendly (ever tried DSTrace work?).

Now when you boot NW6, it looks just like RedHat with load status for each module [OK],[FAILED]. Its almost identical. NW6 requires a second IP address for Apache, which does the Native File Access stuff (iFolder - NFS/CIFS...) etcetera. Plus Tomcat runs also, so its obvious that nix knowledge is handy - it may be part of CNE6 or MCNE6 someday.

Anyhow, have a good Monday

Regards, Doug

ccieToBe

2001-12-17, 11:38 am

Yeah, Unix can be scaled way back. There are a few very functional distros out there that fit on a floppy. I'm going to try loading one of the BSDs on a 64MB compact flash card sometime to see how well it works. My thought is that for servers that don't need much storage space (like routers and firewalls) this would make more sense then using a harddrive that's prone to crash.

I only have one monitor for all my computers. They work fine w/o monitors. The only thing that I have to plug in to each one to get them to boot is a keyboard. A loopback monitor plug? Sounds good to me, I'll be sure to look into it.

A loopback ps/2 cord would be nice too.

NFS is an optional TCP/IP client/server app used for sharing filesystems over a network. You share directory /a/b/c on the NFS server and mount it to /x/y/z on NFS clients. Think of it as drive mapping without cifs.

The equivelant of NCP on Unix? Hmm... A couple parts of the Unix philosophy are "do one thing and do it well" and "make the output passable to another app's input". Basically everything is very modular so I'm not sure what would be considered NCP's equivelant. I guess you could say that NFS and Samba are simular. Actually, I think Novell has ported NCP to Linux.

NW6 sounds nice; I need to try it out and maybe take the advanced admin exam. I've had the beta for the last few months but haven't gotten around to installing it yet.

TW2001

2001-12-20, 8:35 am

Good to have another enthuisiastic member on this board!

http://linuxdoc.org is a good one.Nice explanations.Also, Running Linux(Oriely) will get you up to speed pretty quickly.Its an easy read and builds a very good foundation for learing Linux.

That link has a very good tutorial on NFS.Although it does have security issues (what doesnt?) it play a major role in the production network I work in.

Ive never used the edirectory.I got a copy with a Caldera distro but never tried it.Im not sure how it would work with Samba though.I think its used to browse the tree from a linux box.

Again Welcome.

dheinsdorf

2001-12-20, 12:25 pm

quote:
Originally posted by TW2001
Good to have another enthuisiastic member on this board!

http://linuxdoc.org is a good one.Nice explanations.Also, Running Linux(Oriely) will get you up to speed pretty quickly.Its an easy read and builds a very good foundation for learing Linux.

That link has a very good tutorial on NFS.Although it does have security issues (what doesnt?) it play a major role in the production network I work in.

Ive never used the edirectory.I got a copy with a Caldera distro but never tried it.Im not sure how it would work with Samba though.I think its used to browse the tree from a linux box.

Again Welcome.

Thanks! I see you changed your Avatar since las I saw. Thanks for the Links. I been having a blast - its hard to keep off the Linux box and study for my CNE! I read lots that RedHat7 is buggy - I believe it, as things seem to be quirky. All in all its really blowing me away how damn neato it is.

Looks like Mandrake.com has some freebie courses online I am gonna try. I am granting myself the patience to become proficient at this point - so I dont get discouraged. The FreeBSD and SlackWare products catch my eye for some reason (More UNIX, less Distro based) so I may try to just jump into the tougher stuff up front. I dont want to do like I did with Win95 - I avoided Nt4 and thus became weak on it. FreeBSD or Slack - is it a good idea and which one?

I am having happy times for sure!

ccieToBe

2001-12-20, 5:52 pm

quote:
Originally posted by dheinsdorf

Thanks! I see you changed your Avatar since las I saw. Thanks for the Links. I been having a blast - its hard to keep off the Linux box and study for my CNE! I read lots that RedHat7 is buggy - I believe it, as things seem to be quirky. All in all its really blowing me away how damn neato it is.

Looks like Mandrake.com has some freebie courses online I am gonna try. I am granting myself the patience to become proficient at this point - so I dont get discouraged. The FreeBSD and SlackWare products catch my eye for some reason (More UNIX, less Distro based) so I may try to just jump into the tougher stuff up front. I dont want to do like I did with Win95 - I avoided Nt4 and thus became weak on it. FreeBSD or Slack - is it a good idea and which one?

I am having happy times for sure!

Glad to hear you're having so much fun. I know what you mean about having a hard time studying other things. I had a lot of trouble when I was studying NetWare and 2000 Server. Cisco's not a problem though; the *nix and Cisco material overlap a lot.

I use RedHat sometimes, but mostly because it's popular with businesses. IMO Mandrake and Slackware are much higher quality distros.

My favorite OS is FreeBSD, so I recommend trying it out. The BSDs are much more mature then Linux and as a result they're generally more stable and secure. They're not as easy to pick up though; you're almost forced to do most things on the command line unlike some of the Linux distros.

TW2001

2001-12-20, 10:33 pm

"its hard to keep off the Linux box"...

it becomes quite obsessive even for our type

sibley

2001-12-21, 7:20 am

I notice that you haven't logged into GREX for nearly three months TW . . . . are you giving it up?

TW2001

2001-12-21, 2:52 pm

Believe it or not Its really slipped my mind.Ill need to log on..ah but alas the time..the holidays..the new gadgets

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