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| Ever notice how little discussion goes on in this forum? All people here do is ask for cheat sheets. Why is there no one willing to even ask some questions about these exams instead of just wanting drainbumps? There is no way you are getting through the Oracle exams without really knowing your stuff. Doesn't anyone here have any questions or comments about Oracle databases? | |
| Silkysmoothe1 2001-07-26, 8:01 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Randy
Ever notice how little discussion goes on in this forum? All people here do is ask for cheat sheets. Why is there no one willing to even ask some questions about these exams instead of just wanting drainbumps? There is no way you are getting through the Oracle exams without really knowing your stuff. Doesn't anyone here have any questions or comments about Oracle databases?
Randy, last night was the first time in this forum, I must say I had been thinking the very same thing. If you notice, the ccna forum sometimes looks much like this one sometimes. I hope it doesn't fall prey to the evil practices.
,,,silky,,,, | |
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| I know what you mean. that's one of the reasons I don't hang much in this forum or in the CCNA forum. the thing that puzzles me is that the Oracle and Csico tests are much, much harder than the CompTIA exams, and that seems to be where most of the discussion takes place. I can't believe that people have no real questions about these topics. SQL isn't that hard, but the syntax can be picky at times and doesn't work the same everywhere, so it seems as though there should be more "real" questions. | |
| Silkysmoothe1 2001-07-26, 8:13 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Randy
I know what you mean. that's one of the reasons I don't hang much in this forum or in the CCNA forum. the thing that puzzles me is that the Oracle and Csico tests are much, much harder than the CompTIA exams, and that seems to be where most of the discussion takes place. I can't believe that people have no real questions about these topics. SQL isn't that hard, but the syntax can be picky at times and doesn't work the same everywhere, so it seems as though there should be more "real" questions.
You appear to know about Oracle,,I ask of you to tell me about oracle,,. I am a newbie and need to be led down prem-roads path. will you help,,,,me?
,,,silky,,, | |
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| Well, I only know basic Oracle. I am a user and not a deveoper for the most part. Nicole might be a better person to ask. But if you want to learn about databases of any type, you might be best off by starting with your SQL, as all relational databases use it some form of SQL to fetch data. I think Oracle uses a simple procedural language of its own called PL to enhance the data manipulability of the product. We have C and COBOL add ons wehre I work, and since I like C, I usually use it to do my scripting in. What test are you going after? | |
| Silkysmoothe1 2001-07-26, 9:36 am |
| I figured the DBO is a good place to start. The thought of spending time with non mainstream Oracle certs doesn't appeal to me.
Seriously, Oracle has what maybe 2-3 mainstream track paths that would be used alot.
I have noticed that for a novice, some of this material looks complex.
what are your thoughts, and I'm curious about when you will have your CCIE,, This is also a goal of mine,,,,taking my time with CCNP right now,,,,
thanx,,, silky,,, | |
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| I'm looking to get the CCIE in a little under two years. One more test and I'll have my CCNP, so things look like they are progressing OK. Am just learning Oracle cause my boss says I have to, lol. | |
| Nicole 2001-07-26, 9:57 am |
| I wouldn't necessarily call DBO a mainstream cert for Oracle, but it sounds like a good place to get your feet wet if you are unsure. Not to mention being a heck of a lot easier than slogging through 5 exams toward one of the other certs.
I kinda sympathasize with the posts looking for material. Finding study materials for Oracle -- especially cheap or free ones -- is really tough. Everyone else is so busy writing prep materials for MCSE we feel left out. But yes, they annoy me too, especially the ones where somebody expects you to email them all your stuff to a hotmail account. Yeah, right 
You forgot the other kind of post besides cheat sheets -- "What's 1Z0-001 like?" The 1Z0-001 question is legit, too. Once you pass one, the others don't seem so scary, but that first one is hard to approach without your knees knocking. It's been answered a dozen times, though; one COULD check the old posts.
I tried setting up an email study group on Yahoo Groups. Nobody asked questions there, either. Honestly, it's hard to ask specific Oracle questions because the concepts are so complex. It's not like you can ask a question very often that has a quick answer.
Oracle relies on three main programming languages, but it can interface with others as well.
SQL -- the industry standard, except that it's never the same from RDBMS to RDBMS. The basics are the same though.
SQL*Plus -- Oracle's proprietary software package to write SQL statements, which also includes support for additional non-SQL language.
PL/SQL -- Procedural Language SQL. Oracle's proprietary procedural language extentions for SQL. This is where the tough stuff is, and also the place where you can do the really cool stuff.
Keeping 'em separate in your mind is an interesting exercise | |
| Silkysmoothe1 2001-07-26, 9:58 am |
| Well, if your made to learn a Strong database then not many better ones to learn than Oracle,,yeah?
I have been hearing alot about this Blue toothe software,,haven't done any research on it but I will later today. I hear it's going to be pretty big.
Hey, thanks for the quick responses, and good luck ok.
have a good weekend,,,silky,,,
"By failing to prepare, you prepare to fail." | |
| Randy 2001-07-26, 10:01 am |
| I know there isn't much free material available . . . most of that does seem to go to the CompTIA or MCSE exams, so I understand to a degree. But it is a little annoying seeing so little happening here when people could be asking specific questions and learning something. I know that programming questions are a bit harder to ask than the more simple techie questions, as you need to give so much background material to be able for a question to make sense. PL is okay, but I still like C better.  | |
| Silkysmoothe1 2001-07-26, 10:15 am |
| [QUOTE]Originally posted by Nicole
[B]I wouldn't necessarily call DBO a mainstream cert for Oracle, but it sounds like a good place to get your feet wet if you are unsure. Not to mention being a heck of a lot easier than slogging through 5 exams toward one of the other certs.
Now this is what I'm seeking,,Do you mean that the DBO is not common,,,rather the DBA-
I am unsure because,,,well,,,,I just don't know any better. Thank goodness for you and Randy.
Sounds to me like I may just want to consider shooting straight for DBA-.
Hmm,,,decisions, decisions. I hate this part of life,,,, just the other day I wanted to sell every possession and move to Fiji and LIVE life.
You are right,,,one test is easier then slogging through 5-test,,however, something tells me the rewards would be greater with the 5-test track,,yes?
please continue to compare the two if you wish,,,
,,,,silky,,, | |
| Nicole 2001-07-26, 11:58 am |
| I don't know a whole lot about the DBO exam, and I hardly ever hear anything about it. But it seems to me to be an appropriate certification for an entry-level DBA or assistant DBA. I never see ads that mention it, or hear from folks that do have it. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, though.
Despite all the hype about Oracle OCP's being in demand and making huge amounts of money, I defy you to find a single advertisement for a position that wants an OCP with no experience, whether it be DBA, App Dev, Java, etc. The developer jobs usually want you to know at least one other major procedural language (like C or JAVA), and the DBA jobs want at least 3 years experience being a DBA, and probably DBA knowledge of another RDBMS system as well.
I find my studies wandering all over the place as I try to fill in the gaps of what I *need* to know to be a good Oracle developer. I could sit down and study and jump right into an OCP... and then not know enough to really do the job, despite years of DB experience behind me. Oracle is a whole different level! I'm a little fuzzy at the moment on how exactly I expect to use my Oracle knowledge, but I do know that I need to expand my RDBMS horizons. Fortunately, many of the basic concepts are the same cross-platform, and at least SQL somewhat resembles SQL on another platform
I'm not suggesting that you don't study for DBA, but I also don't want you to think you can immediately go and and snag an $80k/year job on the basis of that alone. I hear a lot of people talk about getting a fabulous job with their OCP and nothing else, but I haven't heard from anyone yet who has managed to leverage it in the real world to a career track. I wish I did!
Maybe a good entry-level position is at a help desk at a company that uses Oracle? I don't know. I'd think that a DBO would be more than adequate for that, maybe combined with an A+. It's certainly a more user-oriented certification, as opposed to the DBA.
Databases kinda grow on you if you like them. I'm even used to this conversation:
"What do you do?"
"I'm a database developer."
"I'm sorry!"
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| Silkysmoothe1 2001-07-26, 12:48 pm |
| thanks nicki,,,,I hope you don't mind,,,my niece's name is Nichole,,,nicki for short,,,I'm sorry I should not assume it's ok to say that.
I appreciate the information you have shared. It has been the most thus far and very insightful, I wish you luck and hope to see/hear you in this forum in days to come.
again, thanks,,,,silky,,, | |
| ocpguy 2001-07-26, 10:01 pm |
| [FONT=arial]
... SPEAKING as someone who has posted comments requesting for cheat sheets... I can't resist but give my opposing opinion by replying to this post. I really should refrain... but like watching a car wreck... I can't help ....my... self.
With that said...
I may be the small majority that actually has DBA experience attempting to get this OCP Cert. I take my last exam tomorrow (Friday) woo hoo! I don't have the money to waste on retaking a stupid exam. I already hate spending the $100 per exam in the first place.
I agree that the DBA cert isn't for people that have no exp. But for someone looking to make the jump from programmer or analyst to dba... it might not be a bad idea... to give you a foot in the door... you could start in Oracle Support, help desk, analyst, etc. But to get a job as a DBA... with no exp and only a cert would be very tough... unless you lie on your resume. Which I'm sure nobody on this site does. *SARCASM*
Let's face it... tech-ing employees really isn't the norm. When I was interviewing last year... not one person out of my 15 interviews tried to quiz me.
If this site was really committed to cracking down on this sort of stuff... they would moderate the requests for cheats out... much like how Brainbuzz.com does. You won't find 1 posting for cheat sheets there... and if you do... it will be edited out within a day.
This site isn't that big that it can't be policed. By letting the posting requests for cheats... the site is silently advocating their posting. But the big problem really would be... "Would people really come here if they couldn't trade cheats?"... "Would traffic go down?"... maybe not.
This site might have been intended for more useful stuff... but let's face it... the crown jewel is cheat sheets. In 2 weeks of posting I've been able to get all the materials I would ever need for a year... for A+, Network+, CCNA, CCNP, OCP, MCSE, Sun, etc... and I'm only interested in OCP cert (for now)
If you don't believe me... look at the left FRAME. It's full of ads for cheat sheets.
LOOK!
Can someone explain to me ... why it's ok to 'sell' actual exam cheats... on a banner ad? But it's not ok to request it in a forum? ... That's RIGHT... you can't!
I don't buy the software piracy argument because Troytec and Cheatsheets sell copyrighted material (the actual exams) | |
| ocpguy 2001-07-26, 10:17 pm |
| In my humble opinion... I think the DBO Cert is kinda worthless.
Ask yourself why are you interested in Oracle Certs? Are you doing it to learn it? Or get a job and more importantly get paid?
THE HONEST ANSWER should be the latter ... to get PAAAAAAIIIIIDDD because Oracle = $$$
I already know Oracle(4 years total... but 2.5 as a DBA)... I wouldn't get certified if I didn't have to. But if Managers are willing to pay $10-20k more... call me OCP!
I have yet to see a company require a DBO cert. If you want to see for yourself... go to monster.com or hotjobs.com and look up DBO... I doubt you will find 1 job. Then compare that against a search for Oracle Certification and you will see tons.
Most DBO's end up working in the basement of in somebody's datacenter... running backups and looking at a bunch of monitors at nite.
Those jobs pay $8-15/hr... nobody expects those guys to have DBO certs for that little pay. Most companies will just want the person to have experience or will train you on the job.
I would recommend talking to a real live DBA at your work ... offer to take em out for lunch/coffee... and informally interview them about their job.... ask if you can do some grunt work for them.
Reading the Intro to SQL and Database Architecture books (Sybex is a good one... or borrow someones Official Oracle textbooks) and learn about what makes up Oracle and how to do basic SQL... play with the interface, sql*plus, Oracle Enterprise Manager... do an installation... it's much easier than trying to buy 3 computers, set up a network, buy routers, etc for practicing the MCSE. | |
| ocpguy 2001-07-26, 10:21 pm |
| quote:
I know what you mean. that's one of the reasons I don't hang much in this forum or in the CCNA forum. the thing that puzzles me is that the Oracle and Csico tests are much, much harder than the CompTIA exams, and that
I think that the Oracle exams are the easiest exams I've taken. The Microsoft Exams are very challenging.
Oracle will tell you to pick the 3 right answers out of 4 questions with one being blatantly wrong.
M$FT will tell you to pick 1 right answer out of 4... and they all look really good.
Oracle also doesn't change their exams very often.... where Microsoft mutates their exams anticipating that braindump sites will get the materials.
I've never taken the CompTIA ... | |
| ocpguy 2001-07-26, 10:37 pm |
| quote:
Ever notice how little discussion goes on in this forum? All people here do is ask for cheat sheets. Why is there no one willing to even ask some questions about these exams instead of just wanting drainbumps? There is no way you are getting through the Oracle exams without really knowing your stuff. Doesn't anyone here have any questions or comments about Oracle databases?
The reason that nobody asks REAL Oracle questions is because ... (are you ready for this profound revelation?)
... THIS WEBSITE IS CALLED EXAMNOTES.COM It's for passing exams/getting certs/etc. If it were called LETS_ALL_SIT_BY_THE_CAMPFIR
E_ANDLEARN_ABOUT_DATABASES.COM I might be a bit more sympathetic
If you really wanted to learn sql syntax, answers to your Oracle Error Messages, Tuning, etc... I'd assume you'd go to a website who's forum focuses on something besides passing tests and certifcations.
2 really good websites that are an example of this are dbasupport.com and www.orafans.com
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to knock this site. I really enjoy coming here.... and this has been a valuable resource (not only for getting cheats... but gaining insight on others experiences)
I believe it is great for it's main purpose. (at least what I'm assuming it is...) to provide a forum or community for learning about certifications, exam requirements, passing exams, etc
While you guys might want it to be something better... or more 'proper'...
I have gained a lot from the very things that you have criticized. As have probably 100's of other members.
While some of us might act snobbish (i.e. look who moved in ... there goes the neighborhood)... if we all get something out of the site... isn't that what really matters in the end?
If you want this site to become a dba support repository... you must create the demand. | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by ocpguy
The reason that nobody asks REAL Oracle questions is because ... (are you ready for this profound revelation?)
... THIS WEBSITE IS CALLED EXAMNOTES.COM It's for passing exams/getting certs/etc. If it were called LETS_ALL_SIT_BY_THE_CAMPFIR
E_ANDLEARN_ABOUT_DATABASES.COM I might be a bit more sympathetic
If you really wanted to learn sql syntax, answers to your Oracle Error Messages, Tuning, etc... I'd assume you'd go to a website who's forum focuses on something besides passing tests and certifcations.
2 really good websites that are an example of this are dbasupport.com and www.orafans.com
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to knock this site. I really enjoy coming here.... and this has been a valuable resource (not only for getting cheats... but gaining insight on others experiences)
I believe it is great for it's main purpose. (at least what I'm assuming it is...) to provide a forum or community for learning about certifications, exam requirements, passing exams, etc
While you guys might want it to be something better... or more 'proper'...
I have gained a lot from the very things that you have criticized. As have probably 100's of other members.
While some of us might act snobbish (i.e. look who moved in ... there goes the neighborhood)... if we all get something out of the site... isn't that what really matters in the end?
If you want this site to become a dba support repository... you must create the demand.
Point taken. I'll leave the cheating to you brainy guys and go back to the A+ forum, where I do delete all requests for cheet sheets. BTW, if you had read the agreement thta you had to accept when you signed up, yoh would see that this sort of thing is not acceptable. This [articular forum is never moderated, probably becuase there is not enough activity here. And discussion about real tech problems does go on in other forums at this site . . . that was what I was basing my comparisons on. Carry on. |
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