| Author |
Transcenders vs. Test King?
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| djmoose 2003-07-18, 4:22 pm |
| OK, so why does a majority of people on this forum consider it "cheating" if you use Test King...but yet it's totally fine to use Transcenders?
Now, I understand Test King has a lot of EXACT questions and answers...but so does transcenders. Maybe the Transcenders mix up the wording a bit and change the order pf the answers...but come on...I don't see a difference.
moose | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-07-18, 4:28 pm |
| One is used by people who have studied and practiced to test their knowledge, the other is used to memorize the answers.
The idea behind practice exams is to test your readiness for an exam, not to use it as preparation.
Do what you will, I guess. | |
| djmoose 2003-07-18, 4:37 pm |
| so...if transcenders populated their practice tests with the same info that's in the Test King sheets...you're saying that's OK?
I don’t think you can make the generalization that people use test king sheets to memorize...and people use transcenders to practice...
You don't think people take the transcenders OVER and OVER and OVER again to memorize those questions?
My point is that people on here call someone a cheater for one thing...and support another means which in all intent purposes...is the same thing. (IMHO)
just my two cents....
moose | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-07-18, 5:03 pm |
| What is wrong with testking is that it is sold as the be-all end-all means to study for an exam and that the world is full of chumps that manage to pass the exam, by memorizing the answers. And by your own observation it is stolen material in violation of the NDA. You are free to do as you will. Best of luck in your studies. | |
| djmoose 2003-07-18, 5:24 pm |
| OK, I can agree with you on the marketing aspect.
but still...was just making a point.
 | |
| MajinYami 2003-09-17, 1:41 pm |
| That makes no sence whatsoever, it just sounds like people who passed not wanting others to really do same.... | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-09-17, 7:22 pm |
| I'd be happy if you have the benefit of studying legitimate materials, practical experience in the lab, a little brush-up with a decent practice exam and a well earned passing mark on the exam. If you think I am promoting something else, let's discuss it. | |
| curiousgeorge 2003-09-30, 3:37 am |
| I used this site for all of my exams. But I also have 5 years of IT experience. The questions, answers, and explanations taught me alot that I didn't use on the job at the time. I also read one to two books for each exam. I would much rather see people paying a little money to pass an exam than pay huge amounts on classes and bootcamps.
As far as test king goes- Ironically, they have many questions with wrong answers and many with wrong explanations. Their material is poor quality, inaccurate and overpriced. | |
| nightstalker 2003-09-30, 6:59 am |
| I've been using Benchmarque Examiner for my studies, as well as the usual...
Actually i find it pretty good, the answers SEEM accurate, good explainations... Damn it i sound like a cheesy sales pitch...
Mind you, while i'm sounding like one, might as well mention the email i had today. Apparently the latest verion of the software, plus the 4core and electives pack will go on sale tomorrow for £50.
Ok.. back to the point. I don't think using any particular self-test software makes you a cheater... It's how you use it, not the program itself.
However anyone who uses a braindump is just stupid..... | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-09-30, 10:15 am |
| I agree with the use of legitimate self-test software, that does not contain material that violates the NDA. | |
| nightstalker 2003-10-03, 11:39 am |
| ok... who edited me post to direct to a braindump? I resent that.
People who use braindumps cheat those of us who are working hard to get our MCSE, and not only that they are ensuring that when we finally do gain it we will be lumped with the paper MCSE's and useless idiots.
Thank you very much ppl. | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-10-03, 3:29 pm |
| Yeah, it's built in to this site. If you type braindumps or testking the link is put there for you automatically. Not so nice a feature, but a lot of good stand-up folks are here. | |
| hilltops 2003-10-06, 6:20 am |
| I have not done a MS exam in a while, I found trancendor good to learn the theory. However if you just want the paper get TestKing. I remember sitting this exam over a year ago. What I found dissapointing was the fact that everybody that sat it got about 900. Have the questions changed since then? | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-10-06, 7:20 am |
| I think the score is irrelavent, if you pass. So did you learn AD Design or 'just get the paper'? | |
| hilltops 2003-10-06, 7:29 am |
| A year ago it was impossible to fail, with the exception of if you sat it in January there were new case studies. of the old questions every case studie was discussed to death, every question analized. I sat it in febuary so had 4 out of the old 6. Has it changed since then? | |
| nightstalker 2003-10-06, 11:58 am |
| Jeff....
£5 says he just got the paper  | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-10-06, 1:31 pm |
| I guess it is just a matter of what you want to focus on. For me passing is a given if you focus on the material. For some, hopefully not many, the focus is on passing.
While I studied for 219, I never crossed paths with any information about the actual cases, because I was reading Chapters 9-10 of the Deployment Planning Guide and building forests and domains in the lab.
I used trial downloads for Transcender, Techskills and Examsimulator for practice. Between these three titles, the cases they portrayed were pretty close to the real exam with the questions taking a slightly different tack than the real exam. But I don't think you have to reduce yourself to actually reading the stolen content from the actual exam, to pass.
&5, that's about $10 bucks to me huh? | |
| hilltops 2003-10-07, 5:00 am |
| "£5 says he just got the paper"
The point I was making was after sitting (and passing)the 240, (if you know what that was), The simplicity of passing the 219 was like shooting fish in a barrel. I felt the exam was a devalued due to the fact there was only 6 case studies (at the time). Hence the reason I am inquiring if it has changed. I simply wanted to know if MS are still trying to get as meny people to pass as possible. | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-10-07, 9:39 am |
| If people don't violate the NDA and discuss and distribute the contents of the exam, then the depth of the question pool is not the issue. Unfortunately, in this world, that is not the case. I grow weary of being held to the standard of the lowest common denominator.
I studied, I worked, I did not cheat, I enjoyed 219. It did not matter to me how many questions were in the pool. | |
| nightstalker 2003-10-07, 9:47 am |
| somewhere about $8ish... I always get confused by foreign money | |
| hilltops 2003-10-07, 10:43 am |
| Sticks and stones, I passed the 240, nuff said. Again the point is (as you seem to miss it compleatly) unless the pool changes frequently and is large enough the MCSE is worthless. In my orginisation we put the trainees on it prior to letting them loose in the real world. We use it as background. As anyone who has been in this buisness knows MS products don't do exactly what it said on the tin!
" Unfortunately, in this world, that is not the case."
"I studied, I worked, I did not cheat, I enjoyed 219. It did not matter to me how many questions were in the pool."
as I have said unless the pool changes frequently your 219 is as worthless as the rest | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-10-07, 12:10 pm |
| I have passed beta exams for 214, 290, 291. I have also taken the 297 beta, which I feel confident to have passed. There are no study books for these, no dumps, no time for participants to discuss content in violation of the NDA. 85 to 90 question exams that legitemately take up the scheduled 3 plus hours to complete. I'm not just shooting s h i t when I discuss exam related issues.
Legitemate participation in the exam process does not make the process worthless. Cheating does.
quote:
if you just want the paper get TestKing.
as I have said unless the pool changes frequently your 219 is as worthless as the rest
Let me see if I understand what you are saying: Cheating is okay because cheating has made the certification process worthless anyway.
I find it objectionable that you could dismiss any of my endeavors as worthless. I have gained value from them and have been able to apply this experience in my career. At this point, I'm happy to say our values are just on differing ends of the spectrum and leave it at that. Good day | |
| seastwood 2003-10-07, 9:41 pm |
| Good to see a decent post rather than the usual "I Passed" followed by 20 posts saying "Well done" | |
| hilltops 2003-10-08, 5:06 am |
| dont get me wrong, well done good for you, I'm sure you are very proud, a fine achevement, BUT
I am a recruitment selector, I see 100s of people with the MCSE.If I had to cut down 180 applicants with similar experience I tend to pick them if they have it on NT4. If applicants only have it on 2000 I then look to there electives non 2000 prefered i.e. SQL7 or SMS. Then I try to work out if there references are lies or genuine.
The reason?
Simple, so meny people have the paper because it is so easy to get NT4 was harder. personaly I feel testking and the like should be banned as comercial products. But they are not. So the only way round it is to change the pool. MS makes a mint out of these exams, it should protect its investment and yours! Other wise the MCSE is only of benifit for personal gratification not professional gain. | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-10-08, 10:08 am |
| It seems you only took two tests to get your MCSE 2000. I don't consider that you have enough experience to speak on the difficulty of obtaining an MCSE 2000.
It has been gratifying to not only keep my job when others lost, but make top increases that were far above the standard.
17 years on my first job, everything from customer service, production and general manager with 60+ employees. 5 years on my second job, general manager, taking a floundering business through three years of double digit growth in sales, along with record profits. Changed careers at the age of 38 and now have 5 years of experience in IT with ever increasing accomplishments and responsibilities.
If you discard my resume because it only says MCSE 2000, CCNA, MCSA 2003 (Sorry, no NT 4.0 MCSE) you would miss out on the fact that I basically have succeeded at everthing I ever set out to do and am liked and respected by my clients, peers and superiors.
I do things because of my integrity, not my pride.
Best be more careful at your job. | |
| nightstalker 2003-10-08, 10:59 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by hilltops
However if you just want the paper get TestKing.
quote:
Originally posted by hilltops
personaly I feel testking and the like should be banned as comercial products. But they are not.
 What message are you trying to give here hilltops?
One minute you say 'get the paper at testking' Next you say testking should be banned
You're either a hypocrite or your logic is severely screwed. | |
| hilltops 2003-10-08, 11:19 am |
| firstly to Mr Nightstalker
I personaly feel the testking and the like should be banned. Simple OK?
They are not (fact)
so if you want to have a bit of paper that gives you an MCSE, sod it get testking and with one days memorising you will pass.
This raises a problem. So many people do this the MCSE is about as usefull as an HND done by continual assessment. (in the UK colleges are under so much pressure to get passes every body pases and it undervalues the certificate to the point it is worthless)
Most people are in agreement with this. So how do you measure peoples ability. I personaly feel punting out exams with a possible 60 questions is not the answer. I also feel the case studie concept was nice idea but not for the whole exam.
The problem is that the exame must be dificult AND some people must fail it. If everybody passes it it is worthless.
PS Mr Black, I did 4.
AD, and networking (i figured thats where the big changes were so I used them as practice for the 240) incadentaly no questions from the two singles came up on my 240 exam.
As for pride and integrity as long as I can look in the mirror every morning and sleep like a log at night I dont care. | |
| curiousgeorge 2003-10-08, 3:52 pm |
| I look at a certification the same as a degree- it's nice to put on your resume, but it doesn't prove anything.
I have two degrees, seven certs and five years of IT experience. I really don't care about paper MCSE's because I'm not one. If someone cheats on an exam to get certified, that just means they are absolutely clueless. And that will definately come out in an interview.
I've seen a lot of absolute idiots graduate college, but that doesn't make me feel like my degree is worthless. And paper MCSE's don't make me feel like my MCSE is worthless either.
Ignorance is opaque. People will see it a mile away. So don't worry about the cheaters. They have their own problems to deal with. | |
| hilltops 2003-10-10, 5:18 am |
| " If someone cheats on an exam to get certified, that just means they are absolutely clueless. And that will definately come out in an interview."
Remember a lot of managers fall into this catagory. I have personaly witnessed some unbeleivable appointments! | |
| nightstalker 2003-10-10, 7:13 am |
| Point one, hilltops, I'm Female.
Point two, You were the one posted those comments... and the way you posted them led to you being misinterpreted as recommending testking
YOU DID NOT MAKE YOURSELF CLEAR.
Point three, I don't just want a peice of paper and I don't just want to pass the exam. I want to know exactly what I'm on about when i walk into that interview.
I don't want to be the one who walks into an interview and, say when the interviewer asks "Why would you use a rfc 1542-compatible router in our network when there are ones that fit more snuggly into our budget" I'm not sitting there scratching my head and saying because i can... | |
| jormst1 2003-10-22, 1:00 pm |
| I cannot believe that these discussions are still going on in these forums. Like curious george said, let the cheats worry about themselves, as like the old saying says "cheats never prosper". I also am a recruiter and have always based my opinion on the applicant's technical knowledge by their answers to my questions. I find it easy to pick out who has studied and who hasn't. People have been cheating on exams for a very long time, and I think its about time that these arguments about "paper certifications" should be put to bed. I'm sure you all have better things to do with your time. And for anyones info, my MCSE is only in 2K, but I pride myself on the achievement as it was obtained by study and hard work.
I would like to thank you all for a very interesting discussion though! I enjoyed reading it!
Good luck to you all ! | |
| jeff_j_black 2003-10-22, 1:37 pm |
| jormst1
Welcome to Examnotes and the thread that just won't die. See you in the more informative threads, I hope! Best of luck in your endeavors. |
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