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Home > Archive > 70-216 > November 2002 > WINS question, help... please
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WINS question, help... please
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| jocampo 2002-11-27, 3:37 pm |
| Hi.
I've studying WINS for my 218 test and i found something in my book that still can not understand.
I read on my Osborne book that WINS servers do not respond to NETBIOS name resolution Query request broadcast. They only respond to directed datagrams. In such cases, we need to configute a WINS proxy.
Now my question: what's the utility of Broadcast on b-node, m-node, and h-node, if we have to put a WINS proxy in the subnet anyway for be able to resolve those queries? i mean, is not necesary with just the WIN Server?....
if WINS server can not "see" broadcast request, then we have to put ALWAYS...a WIN PROXY plus a WIN Server on each subnet?????????? | |
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| Hi.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sole purpose of a wins server is to register and answer DIRECTED request. As I understand your question you would have the WINS server react as a proxy agent directing the request to it self.
It is not necessary to implement a wins proxy on a subnet with b-node clients since in this situation the other clients/servers would answer the broadcast request themselves. | |
| jocampo 2002-11-27, 7:32 pm |
| Hi.
And no...that's not my question....my question is:
my book says i always need a WIN proxy on a subnet, because WIN Servers can not respond to broadcast messages. But almost all WIN nodes types, use broadcast...so????....
Do i read well? or just a misreading? | |
| jeff_j_black 2002-11-27, 7:51 pm |
| From what I understand, the wins proxy should be placed on the network, when non NETBIOS compliant computers (OS/2?) need to access wins. | |
| jocampo 2002-11-27, 8:05 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by jeff_j_black
From what I understand, the wins proxy should be placed on the network, when non NETBIOS compliant computers (OS/2?) need to access wins.
HI Jeff...so, i don't need a WIN Proxy for Microsoft clients that use broadcast? | |
| jeff_j_black 2002-11-27, 8:56 pm |
| No, even MSDOS clients are NETBIOS compliant. Most of the functionality of the command line command "NET" is based on NETBIOS. Also, network browsing, such as "Network Neighborhood" is reliant on WINS. Stock 95 and 98 clients have no problem getting around a 2k network. So WINS Proxy is not needed for MS based clients. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by jocampo
HI Jeff...so, i don't need a WIN Proxy for Microsoft clients that use broadcast?
Jeff is correct. Remember WINS is a Microsoft creation, and MS clients do not need the assistance of a WINS proxy for NetBIOS name resolution. But we do need to account for non-WINS enabled clients/systems that may live on our network (ex. OS/2,UNIX)
Computers that are not WINS-enabled (ex. UNIX) use B-node name resolution. The WINS proxy listens on the local subnet for B-node name service broadcasts (such as registration, refresh, release, query) and responds for those names that are not on the local network. A WINS proxy communicates with the WINS server by directed datagrams (P-Node) to respond to these broadcasts. Without a WINS Proxy in a routed network, non-WINS enabled systems like UNIX boxes would have a very difficult time resolving NetBIOS names for clients on a remote subnet because the broadcasts would not cross the router.
In your example, if a WINS server is on the local subnet and your MS clients are configured as B-Node, that kind of defeats the purpose of a WINS server in the first place. You would want your clients to be H-Node (directed P-Node to the WINS server first, if that fails, then B-Node broadcast on the local subnet). To make your MS clients H-Node, all you have to do is configure them with the address of the WINS server.
If the WINS server is located on another subnet, your clients should be configured as H-Node as well so they will try directed P-Node (which will cross the router) first to the WINS server. If they get no response, they will then B-Node broadcast to all clients on their local subnet. To make your MS clients H-Node, all you have to do is configure them with the address of the WINS server.
This might help further. They talk about WINS Proxy about halfway down http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...rt2/tcpch07.asp | |
| jocampo 2002-11-27, 9:54 pm |
| Mmmm....but book do not say that exactly....żor i'm misreading? | |
| jeff_j_black 2002-11-27, 10:11 pm |
| Spid has said it so much more eloquently than I, but we're being straight up. | |
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| I'm not sure if you are misreading or not. I don't have that book.
I can tell you this. The statement in your book that says you need a WINS proxy on every subnet is wrong.
The statement that says a WINS server will not respond to a broadcast request is correct.
When you configure your client to use a WINS server for NetBIOS name resolution that client changes from the default B-Node (or enhanced B-Node for Windows 2000) to H-Node.
The H-Node client is going to attempt to contact the WINS server directly first via P-Node which will cross a router and contact the WINS server on a remote subnet. If the client cannot contact the WINS server, then and only then will it attempt a B-Node broadcast.
A WINS Proxy communicates with the WINS server. It intercepts a boradcast request from the client and submits it on behalf of the client to the WINS server via directed (P-Node).
So now follow me on this. I have a WINS server on a remote subnet. If an MS client is configured as H-Node it tries to contact the WINS server directly first. Ok? If the WINS server is running and the router is functioning, etc.. then the client will successfully contact the WINS server and resolve the name, if not, the client will broadcast to every host on the local subnet(broadcasts don't cross routers). Let's just say for arguments sake that we have a WINS Proxy on the local subnet. The MS clients start broadcasting, because they can't contact the WINS server for some reason. The Proxy intercepts these requests and will attempt to contact the WINS server on behalf of the clients. Well if the clients can't contact the WINS server directly, then there is no way the Proxy is going to contact the WINS server either. The name resolution requests will fail.
I don't know how else to explain it.  | |
| nila_40 2002-11-28, 10:43 am |
| Hi spid
your explination is clear and logical. | |
| hlang 2002-11-28, 11:31 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Spid
I don't know how else to explain it.
Yo don't need to - beats Microsoft Press by several lengths  | |
| jocampo 2002-11-28, 12:10 pm |
| Thanks fellas...you all know a lot, and how well how to explain it...but remember, english is my second language | |
| luisjo 2002-11-28, 9:28 pm |
| For these kind of questions i like to use mspress books, heres what these guys say about it:
"Wins provies a distributed database for registering and querying dynamic mappings of NetBIOS names for computers and groups used on your network. WINS maps NEtBIOS names to IP addresses and was designed to solve the problems arising fron NetBIOS name resolution in routed enviromets. WINS is the best choice for NetBIOS name resolution in routed networks that use netbios over Tcp/IP.
Im going to keep reading to clear a little more your question jocampo, dont worry Luisjo is here to the rescue.
jeje
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| jocampo 2002-11-29, 1:16 am |
| Luisjo...Alex, thanks a lot for your help. Now i have the concept very clear.
Luisjo...Alex, gracias por la ayuda y las explicaciones. Finalmente tengo los conceptos claros. | |
| luisjo 2002-11-29, 8:05 am |
| Jocampo these is what mspress has to say about netbios node types:
"b-node (broadcast) b node uses bradcast Netbios name queries for name registration and resolution, b-node has two major problems 1 broadcast disturbs every node of the network and 2 routers typically do not forward broadcasts. so only netbios names of the local network are resolved.
p-node uses a netbios name server, such as a wins server to resolve netbios names, p-node does not use bradcast, insted it queries the name server directly.
m-node(mixed) uses both nodes b and p, by default a m node is a b node, if a m node is unable to resolve a name by bradcast it queries a netbios name server using a p node.
h-node (hybrid) its a combination of p node and b node, by default an h node functions as a p node if an h node is unable to resolve a neme through the netbios name server it uses broadcast to resolve the name.
jocampo later in the day i will translate these as better as i can.
See you my friend
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