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Home > Archive > 70-210 > December 2001 > Connecting PCs
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| socza 2001-12-17, 10:14 am |
| I all !
I have a small prob. I connect to pc win 2000 and win 98 by using hub and two net cards.Boht work in the same workgroup They find each other but when I try to get into any of them I get 'network path not found' ? I shared hard drives, folders and put all req. protocols as the New Riders book teaches but I,m still not able to get into any of the computers ...I can see it in my workgroup but I get the message.
Can anybody help ?
I checked the net cards on other computers and they work fine | |
| PotatoHead 2001-12-17, 12:13 pm |
| Hmmm....is file and print sharing enabled? | |
| socza 2001-12-17, 12:44 pm |
| Can you belive this ? It is.... | |
| tomcat1 2001-12-17, 1:50 pm |
| I had the same problem. I could see each computer on the net, but my 98 computer couldn't access the 2000 box. It gave me the same error. When you say you have the required protocols, which ones do you have on each computer? Try only useing TCP/IP as the only protocol. And also, do you have a firewall running on either computer? | |
| Humpty_nl 2001-12-17, 1:56 pm |
| Make absolutely sure that both machines have connectivity, if you are using TCP/IP ping the other machine, also enabling NetBIOS over TCP/IP on the Win2k machine might help.
When you say "they find each other" you mean that on both machines you see a workgroup with two members?
If you are using NetBEUI, share something and do a net view <machine_name> from the other machine.
Hope this helps or at least has given you some ideas, let us know waht you find. Questions are nice, but i also like to know the answers :-)
Greetz. | |
| april13 2001-12-17, 2:52 pm |
| I had something similar. I was trying to map the drive to the server2000 from the Win200 Pro and got file/path no found. I asked someone else. She told me that I had to create a Domain in order for both machines to comunicate. So I created the domain at the server and bingo it worked. I am not clear yet the whole concept...I am studying to take my test in april-02 sure then I will. Hope this help. she also told me the 2 computers cannot communicate with workgroups.(if the server is Win2000).
LS. | |
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| Hi !
thanks for reply. I tried all the tricks but nothing seems to work . I upgraded the second pc to win 2000 but it nothing changed.
One thing I noticed - the computer I start first can see all others in the worgroup , and the one I start second tells 'the network not accesable'. It does not make difrence if I boot first server or prof. the reaction is the same. I also enabled NET bios over TCP/IP but it did not worked .I'm sorry to drive you mad but my knowlage is not enough to solve the prob. I also add that I switched off the fire wall, just to make it clear. The protocols I use are the default ones:
Client for Microsot Net.
File and print. sharing..
TCP/IP
If you have any other ideas please let me | |
| CiscoKid 2001-12-17, 8:50 pm |
| have you tried bypassing the hub and just using a crossover cable to connect the 2 workstations together? | |
| liquidplatinum 2001-12-18, 5:54 pm |
| I was going to suggest the same thing as the user above...
Why not try to connect the two computers with a crossover cable instead of using the hub? Go to your local computer store and ask them for a 6 or 10 foot crossover cable. plug one end into each PC, and let us all know what happens. Using a hub can be great for a small workgroup, but I would recommend going the crossover cable route if you are dealing with only two computers. Just my two cents... | |
| Gareth Leung 2001-12-19, 8:27 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by april13
...she also told me the 2 computers cannot communicate with workgroups.(if the server is Win2000)...
No, it's not true. I have a Win2k Server, a Win98/Win2K Pro client, a Win2K Pro/WinXP Pro Client and two Macs with OS 8 & OS 9 working happily together in the same workgroup so I don't think you have to setup a domain in order to solve the communication problem. | |
| Hootie 2001-12-19, 9:03 am |
| What file system(s) are you using? | |
| Kvalhion 2001-12-19, 9:27 am |
| You might want to double check what speed your hub supports and verify what speeds your NIC cards are set to. Just to be safe maybe you should change it to 10 MB rather than 100 MB on each card with half duplex to see if that helps the computers communicate.
Also, check the binding order on the adapters to see which protocols are at the top.
Are you also trying to share a DSL/Cable internet connection? If not, you might want to remove TCP/IP altogether for now and go with NetBEUI or IPX/SPX.
Let us know how it turns out.  | |
| CiscoKid 2001-12-20, 10:11 pm |
| Hey nice thinking Kvalhion
I was having the same problem. I resolved it by enabling NetBIOS over TCP/IP in the WINS tab in my Advanced TCP/IP settings window. Now I can see all my workstations. | |
|
| Hi !
Yeaaa I gree with Gareth Leung about the two Pcs and domain . It does not make any diffrence if it is domain or worgroup.
Ok getting back to the my Pcs they are still not conected . I honestly going creazy , I have done it milion times and they alweys worked but not this time . My problem started when I seted up a new pc for my self with RAID mother board .I have moved the net card to my new PC and it failed to recognize the others pc in workgroup. Please help , give my some other idea ... I even upgraded my BIOS ( has it got anything to do with it ? )but those computers do not talk with each other . Thanks for the help you gave my and I'm looking forward for new ideas....
PS
Conecting them directly would solve the problem . Whatdo I need to do it if I have hub and proper cards...I rader preffer to learn how to solve the problem now so in the future I would know....Thanks in advance I sorry for my english  | |
| TW2001 2001-12-21, 8:55 pm |
| I dont know if this will help with your current issue but you will learn something invaluable in this article.
How the Microsoft Browser Circus Works
Are you itchy to know what happens when you click on the Network Neighborhood or My Network Places icons? Read on...
By Thomas Shinder
Not a week goes by without us needing to field a question
relating to why someone can’t “see” a machine on the network.
In fact, the question has become so frequent, and the
misunderstanding and misconceptions about how computers
appear in the My Network Places (née Network Neighborhood)
applet so nutty, that whenever I hear the phrase “I can’t
see blah blah blah” it sends shivers down my spine.
The bulk of the problems a junior administrator has with
the My Network Places applet and the Browser Service is that
somehow someone told them that WINS was the core of all
browsing problems. The fact is that WINS may or may not have
to do with browsing problems on a Microsoft network, but it
is by no means the answer to most problems with browsing. In
fact, you don’t even need WINS to run the browser service on
your network.
What we’ll try to do here is dispel myths regarding the
Browser service and let you in on how the whole thing works.
Since the whole mess of the Browser service is related to
the limitations of the NetBIOS interface, lets start with a
short trip through NetBIOS.
------------------------------
What is the NetBIOS Interface?
------------------------------
When network programs are written, they are designed to
connect to the network via either the Winsock or the NetBIOS
interface. Since the history of Microsoft networking is the
history of NetBIOS, the vast majority of programs written
for Microsoft networks have been written to the NetBIOS
interface.
These NetBIOS programs use the destination’s NetBIOS name as
the logical endpoint of network communication. This is in
contrast to programs written to the Winsock interface, where
the logical endpoint of communications is the destination
socket (a socket is a protocol, IP address and Port number).
The TCP and IP protocols don’t give a whit about NetBIOS
names. Therefore, one of main jobs of the NetBIOS interface
is to take care of resolving NetBIOS names to IP addresses
so that the request can be passed down the protocol stack.
All Microsoft network operating systems prior to Windows
2000 were NetBIOS dependent for core network operating
system functions. In Windows NT the domain locator system
used by network clients to locate a domain controller to log
onto was dependent on NetBIOS. All of the “net” commands are
also NetBIOS based. And of course, the subject of this
article, the dreaded Browser service, is an application
written to the NetBIOS interface.
-------------------
What NetBIOS Is Not
-------------------
NetBIOS is *not* any of the following:
NetBIOS is not WINS
NetBIOS is not the Browser Service
NetBIOS is not NetBEUI
NetBIOS is not a stand-alone transport protocol
NetBIOS is not DNS
NetBIOS is not Name Resolution
NetBIOS is not LMHOSTS
I’ve heard all of these descriptions and it’s not entirely
clear to me where folks get these ideas. Of course, when
they get out of my classes, they know better. But I’ve got
to wonder about those instructors they’ve had before me!
-------------
NetBIOS Names
-------------
On Microsoft networks that do not have third party NetBIOS
hosts (like some UNIX systems that have NetBIOS implemented)
the NetBIOS name has 15 user-configurable characters and a
16th hidden character that is used as a service identifier.
This hidden character is a hex number that allows the
computer to register running services, such as the
Workstation service [00h], the Server service [20h] and the
Messenger [03h] service.
Its important to realize that a single computer can register
multiple NetBIOS names since it registers a name for each of
the services that it hosts. Therefore, it might be
considered somewhat of a misnomer to speak of a computer as
having a NetBIOS “name” when it may have registered several
on the network.
You can see your computer’s NetBIOS names by typing
“nbtstat –n” at a command prompt.
-------------
Browser Roles
-------------
When we speak of browser roles, we are referring
specifically to machines that are responsible for keeping
the Browse List. This is a list of servers on the network.
In the context of the Browser service, any machine running
the Server service is a server. A machine does *not* need to
be an NT/2k Server to run the server service. The names you
see in Network Neighborhood, et al. are servers on the
network, and those names make up the Browse List.
The Browser Roles are:
Domain Master Browser
Master Browser
Backup Browser
Potential Browser
All of these except the Potential Browser maintain a copy of
the Browse List. The Potential Browser is a machine that
might someday become a browser if one is needed, but at the
moment, it does not keep a copy of the browse list.
To get an idea of what each Browser role is responsible for,
let’s look at two scenarios, a single segment network and a
multisegment network.
----------------------
Single Segment Network
----------------------
When machines running the server service start up, they
broadcast their NetBIOS names with the [20h] service
identifier. The Master Browser on the network segment
“hears” the broadcast, and places that computer’s NetBIOS
name in the Browse List. Servers rebroadcast their [20h]
NetBIOS name every 12 minutes to keep their name fresh on
the browse list. If the server fails to refresh its name
for a period of three announcement periods (36 minutes), it
will be dropped from the Master Browser’s Browse List.
When a network client requests a copy of the Browse List, it
does not receive the list from the Master Browser. What the
Master Browser will send is a list of Backup Browsers on the
segment. The client will obtain the Browse list by
requesting it from the Backup Browser.
The segment Master Browser sends a copy of the Browse List
to all Backup Browsers on the segment every 15 minutes. If a
server is dropped from the segment Master Browser’s Browse
List, it can take up to 15 minutes for the Backup Browser to
be notified of this condition. That is why is can take up to
51 minutes for a downed server to disappear from the Browse
list on the same segment (36 minutes + 15 minutes).
Note that all communications to this point are NetBIOS
broadcast messages. There are no directed datagrams in any
of the communications between the Master Browser, the Backup
Browser or the client requesting the Browse List.
--------------------
Multisegment Network
--------------------
Things get a little trickier on a multiple segment network.
Why? Because all these browser service related messages are
broadcast messages. On a single segment network it’s not
much of a problem, but it becomes a big problem on segmented
networks because routers shouldn’t be passing NetBIOS
broadcast messages.
Suppose you have a three-segment network. Each segment has a
Master Browser and each Master Browser collects information
about the servers on its own segment. If we left things
alone here, users would be able to obtain the browse list of
servers on their own segment, and that’s all.
In order to include servers on all segments in a single
browse list, you have to introduce a mechanism that allows
the all Master Browsers to share information. This is the
role of the Domain Master Browser. The Domain Master Browser
is the PDC on your network. And because there’s only one PDC
(or PDC emulator), there’s only one Domain Master Browser.
Each Master Browser will send the Browse List information
that it has collected to the Domain Master Browser. The
Domain Master Browser pools all this information into a
single Browse List, and sends this information back to the
segment Master Browsers.
-----------------------
No Broadcasting Allowed
-----------------------
When the segment Master Browsers contact the Domain Master
Browser, they can’t broadcast this information because the
routers are in the way. Therefore, they need to send
directed datagrams to the IP address of the Domain Master
Browser. The question is, how do the segment Master Browsers
find the Domain Master Browser?
You could use an LMHOSTS file on each of the segment Master
Browsers and include a #DOM: tag for the PDC. Or you could
use a WINS Server. A Domain Master Browser will register
its domain name with a [1Bh] service identifier, and the
segment Master Browsers will query the WINS database for
these entries. Once it gets the IP address from the WINS
database, it registers its Master Browser status with the
Domain Master Browser and then the Domain Master Browser
can send a request for the list. The Domain Master Browser
must be able to resolve the names of the segment Master
Browsers as well. This exchange takes place every 15 minutes.
It’s through the exchanging of Browse lists between the
segment Master Browsers and the Domain Master Browser that
allows all the servers on all segments of the domain to
appear on the Browse List.
-----------
Bottom Line
-----------
The bottom line is that the Browser Service sucks, and
there’s not a lot of reasons why you should be running it
on your network. Users should not be allowed to browse for
resources on the network, as it exposes more information to
them that they actually need. Administrators do not need the
browser service because they should be typing in UNC paths.
A user can happen upon a share that hasn’t had its access
controls set correctly, and bad things can happen. Also, the
amount of broadcast traffic isn’t too helpful on networks
that are already in a crunch.
The good news is that Windows 2000 allows you to publish
shares in the Active Directory. You can disable the Browser
Service on all machines, and allow users to Browse published
share in the Active Directory. Since these messages are
directed, there’s no broadcast traffic, and if you take the
time to publish shared resources, you’re more likely to
secure them properly before publishing them. | |
| anthonie 2001-12-21, 10:11 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kvalhion
You might want to double check what speed your hub supports and verify what speeds your NIC cards are set to. Just to be safe maybe you should change it to 10 MB rather than 100 MB on each card with half duplex to see if that helps the computers communicate.
Have you tried this? I had a same problem some time ago and this is what I've done to solve the problem. | |
|
| thanx
I did check the speed of the cards and the hub . They are 10mb . Well they work fine with other pc Some one asked me what system I use ... Well I did try all FAT 32 on both pcs and NTFS5 but i does not work . The problem seems to be in my new computer with RAID because the cards and hub work well with other systems as I said before . I also enabled netbios over tcp/ip but i did not help ..... . Well I thinkig about giving up , there is nothing more to do with it . | |
|
| Hi
It's me again . I noticed that my TCP/IP prot. is at the botoom of the list . I think it can by the prob. Unfotunately none of the books I use for my exams does not say how to change it so TCP/IP would be at the top....
Somebody said about using NetBEUI , yea it is a good idea but I want to use this PC for internet connection sharing so I can not remove TCP/IP .Thanx for help .... | |
| tomcat1 2001-12-22, 9:01 am |
| I've lost tracked of which OS you are using now, but to change the order of protocols on a win2000 box do the following.
open the Network and Dial-up connections folder and choose Advanced settings from the Advanced menue.(drop down menue at the top). On the Adapters and Bindings tab of the Advanced settings dialog box, select the connection for which you want to make the change. Then in the bindings box, select one of the protocols or services that you want to reorder and move it using the arrow buttons on the right. You can also unbind a protocol from a service by clearing the check box next to the protocol under the service.
I'm not sure how to reorder the protocols on a Win98 box. Also, I have found that a good reference is Windows 2000 Prof. Expert Companion by Microsoft, but I would assume that the Win2000 Resource Kit would be a good choice also but would cost more. | |
| socza 2001-12-22, 11:24 am |
| Thaanks Tomcat1!
I have changed the bindings but it did not improve much I use Win 2000 server and Win 2000 prof on the other pc. Thanks for your help , at least I leared something | |
| socza 2001-12-22, 11:25 am |
| Sorry I forgot to say ,they both use NTFS | |
| Humpty_nl 2001-12-23, 3:01 am |
| Hi,
Nice to see so many responses, but alas it still doesn't work.
You've tried a lot of things, but have you really tested it from a basic setup. I would try to solve this thing with starting at the base. So a few questions for you:
1. Have you made sure that both NIC's are functioning properly? Switch hem between pc's and if you have three, try to set it up not using your new RAID machine.
2. Install only the basic protocols, client, file and printer and TCP/IP
3. Use a crosslink cable that you're absolutely sure of is good.
4. Can you ping the other machine?, they don't have to be in the same workgroup for this to work.
If the basic configuration works you can then start thinking about (Internet) sharing.
Also let us know your TCP/IP configuration, like IP addresses etc...
What is your ultimate goal by the way, 1 ICS/NAT router and how many clients?
Good luck and don,t give up yet :-)
We'll crack this thing in the end. | |
|
| Hi
Thanks for reply. My goal is just to make the RAID machine with Win 2000 server on to be ICS/NAT router with two client.Well I have tried so many tricks and nothing worked .I thinking about reformating these two pc and make clean install on with default settings . I will also use the third machine just to make sure that my cards and the hub are OK ( that means I will connect them without the RAID PC )Well it may by the way .Let's start from the begining .
PC
I will also use the crossover cable ...
I'll let you know after christmas how it works .He, he willllll see.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
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