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Home > Archive > CCNP > June 2002 > HeadHunters, Recruiters and the like
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HeadHunters, Recruiters and the like
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| beenframed 2002-06-20, 11:35 am |
| Head Hunters and Recruiters are the worst group of people to deal with. They are resposnible for 3/4 or more of all the posts on the big job boards (monster, hotjobs and dice). I don't know what there doing, everyone I know in the IT world is telling me the same thing too. Basically they post these jobs for 70-100k for all sorts of IT positions and they never seem to hire anyone for them. (atleast not anyone I know) I have went on interviews with them, where I walked out feeling like "dam I blew that guy away" "the job is mine" and then I never hear from them again. Surely I have applied for some jobs that I may be a little under qualified for but I have applied for more jobs that I am either qualified for and others that I am over qualified for and I get the same response from the recuiters. They call me into an interview and then never followup with me, even though everything seemed to go sunshine. I thought maybe it was me (maybe I dont interview as well as I think I do or maybe my experience isn't there) but after speaking to some friends about this they say the same thing. (2 inparticular a former CTO and another who was is a former Director of IT) both of them plus others have given me the same low down on interviewing with recruiters (I dont think they were always this unreliable but..)Out of the 4 tech jobs I have had since getting in the industry not one was supplied by a recruiter. Not sure what there problem is though and why they need to post so many open jobs, if there not going to fill them.
-bf | |
| SurfinUSA 2002-06-20, 12:19 pm |
| I think you are right. I think what they do is that they gather a "pool" of people and when they finally do get a job, they have a bunch to choose from. I have experienced the same thing, and they really suck because it gets your hopes up that there may be a job out there for you and then, BOOM, you never hear from them again. Then when you call them, it was either filled or the company they are representing decided not to fill it (yeah right!). | |
| cahillrobert 2002-06-20, 12:46 pm |
| I have had 7 interviews with different recruiters. I don't know what the joke is.
The same job is posted on different web sites by different recruiters, you call up aks the right questions, have the experience - or close enough. You humble yourself in taking a salary you would have laughed at a year ago.
Go home with good feelings and sit by the phone.
Two weeks ago I saw a posting for a WAN engineer that was ME. All of the experience. Every damn line item.
I cannot get past the recruiter.
some recruiters want to you call them and refuse to call you. All of them are working for the hiring company NOT YOU[/B] | |
| subnet__zero 2002-06-20, 12:54 pm |
| Body Shops have always been a sham and now more than ever. At one point I had decided, and told the recruiters, that I would ONLY visit with them if they secured and interview for me with their client. I told them that I would even meet with them the day of the interview with thier client. Some understood that my time was valuable too and some didn't. Needless to say, it saved me a lot of running around to the different staffing firms. You rarely, if ever, hear from them again anyway, so what's the diff.
These people are trying to keep their jobs too, so if they're contacting people and getting them in for a look, it looks good for the recruiter to their boss. Don't trust anything any of them have to say and don't waste your time chasing after them. Instead, go to company websites and look there. You'll find better info there than with the scammers.
Lots of luck!! | |
| cahillrobert 2002-06-20, 1:05 pm |
| Several recruiting companies have taken off any information off of the posting that refers to the client they represent.
I tried that tactic several times without luck.
I have thought about making sure that the company is available, next time. | |
| akarklins 2002-06-21, 10:29 am |
| I agree with your observations. I will even go as far to say that the headhunters just want your "references" in order to add them to their contacts database. I had been contacted by a headhunter who was more interested in my current working environment (not what I did there!) only to find within a few weeks their sales person was visting my supervisor.
Some even just request the references up front and don't even consider my qualifications.
These are some of the oldest tricks in the book. I have been contracting over 23 years and know this from experience. | |
| cciewannabe 2002-06-21, 2:31 pm |
| i had one recruiter who wanted references before he'd even forward my resume to any "potential fits". i told him he'd have to secure me an interview first before that would happen. i respect my references and their time and don't want them to be getting hundred of calls from people who aren't serious (feet in the water). this recruiter then went on to tell me that its not my market anymore and youll have to conform to the recruiters wishes if youre to get anywhere. 2 years ago a recruiter wouldnt have dreamed of asking for references before the first or second interview. ive heard horror stories from friends of them giving references to recruiters and then the recruiter called their references NOT for a reference but to ask them if they had any positions they were looking to fill. talk about unethical schmucks. ive had one recruiter who placed me in 2 jobs and he'd always be the one to call me, and showed me so much respect. now this guy wont return my calls and, other recruiters won't respond either. you're totally right, they're getting a pile of resumes (and references) before they even have a job for you. many of the posts aren't real jobs yet. they're there just to get a pile of resumes in, and then they forward 100s/1000s to IT managers they're soliciting too. im so sick of flesh peddlers that once i have my CCIE ill be calling the IT managers directly, myself, no recruiters for me anymore, why should they get a big chunk of my salary, and they do, last recruiter told me 10% which amounted to around 8,000K! screw recruiters | |
| beenframed 2002-06-21, 2:46 pm |
| Here's a good idea, just as we collect list of spammers to filter. I would like to initiate that we start a filter list of "Flesh Selling, time wasting recruiters" I will start the list off with two agencies whom I had recent encounters with: Although I have interviewed with 6 or so in the last few months these 2 inparticular deserve to be black listed because I know I aced their interview and supplied them with all the credintials I could possibly need to land the job they were offering:
Here they are:
1. The Woods group, based in NYC
2. RHIC Consulting also based in NYC.
If you have any comments on these agencies please let me know, I am curiuos to see if it is just me.
-bf | |
| SurfinUSA 2002-06-21, 3:06 pm |
| Dealt with RHIC. They STINK!!! They got my references, never called me for things I know I should have had. | |
| cahillrobert 2002-06-21, 3:48 pm |
| Also have had a bad experience with RHIC.
Want every piece of information and an exam or two. Never give you a call when they have something good.
Another black hole has been:
MacArthur Associates
http:/www.macarthura.com They are constantly posting decent positions never a call. A buddy went to them for an internal interview and they had three other guys all applying for the same position.
They will never call you. They are constantly saying give me a call in a couple of days and see what has come in. Interstate call are expensive, specially if you've been laid off. Thanks to a AT&T calling card for 3.47 cents per minute. I would never be calling anyone.
Just noticed I became a Member of the discussion group. Wow.
The Judge Group
http://www.judge.com/
Another very high maintenance group. Went through 3 recruiters in the IT field. The recruiters are even getting out of IT and into Engineering. | |
| cahillrobert 2002-06-21, 3:55 pm |
| If there is a interest in tracking good / bad recruiters how about web sites.
example:
Monster
TechieGold
JobCircle
FlipDog
and the like. | |
| akarklins 2002-06-21, 5:23 pm |
| I am fortunate enough to have a few companies that I have worked for that are now bankrupt or sold the company and amount to a dead lead for the headhunters.
I usually have the client write a letter of reference which can be good even beyond the life of the company. Always keep 4-5 letters on hand.
That is what I give those "fishing" headhunters. That way I don't care if I ever get a reply.
However there is a point that you must give them real contacts which puts us into the same trap. But at least you can to filter the hot from the cold leads. Its kind of like an access list
if headhunter eq any any "bull" deny
Manpower (no 1099)
TekSystems (no 1099)
RHI (no 1099)
just to name a "few"
and believe me there are many!
Good Luck to all.. | |
| wirechild 2002-06-21, 5:41 pm |
| WOW! I couldn't believe when I saw this thread and I spent half the morning arguing with a recruiter that I caught lying to me about a job that wasn't a real job. He had been telling me for a couple days about a company in my local area that was just about to open thier doors and needed about 15 IT people. Well you see I live in a really small area and only one or 2 companies has this many IT people. So before I would give him any info I kept asking for more info from him about the company and got just enough and then called the local Chamber of Commerce and asked enough questions from them to assure me a company of this size was not coming to my area. I then called him and told him what I did and after about 10 mins he admitted to me there was no real company but his boss was presuring him.
So add to the list:
Butler Systems. | |
| cahillrobert 2002-06-21, 7:32 pm |
| Should this be a seperate message board so that all other IT practioners see this information?
If the group thinks so, who should we talk to? | |
| cahillrobert 2002-06-21, 8:54 pm |
| Apparently started up the same time as this one.
General Discussion / Certification... /
Topic Agencies | |
| RichardJW 2002-06-22, 3:49 am |
| http://www.examnotes.net/forums/sho...&threadid=38488
Yup!  But this thread is much, much better.quote:
Originally posted by cciewannabe
im so sick of flesh peddlers that once i have my CCIE ill be calling the IT managers directly, myself, no recruiters for me anymore, why should they get a big chunk of my salary, and they do, last recruiter told me 10% which amounted to around 8,000K! screw recruiters
Yes. I am doing the same thing but getting my MCSD. Get a list of businesses, companies and software houses if relevant in or out of your area. You can use business directory websites for this. Visit their websites and look at their job postings. This is what after all most of these agents do. Angle in on some - see for example if any of them have got an open recruitment day coming up. It's quality not quantity. You can fire off as many CV's you like to the mainstream websites but it's largely a waste of time. | |
| darthfeces 2002-06-22, 8:41 am |
| recruiters tarinsh a car salesman's good name.
even worse are the non-glorified
telemarketer types.
i have dealt with some in the past,
have all the same stories and always get my own job in the end.
how many job descriptions have you seen where an
impossible skill set + experience are required,
but it is completely obvious that anyone fitting the bill could not possibly accept the position
in their right mind ? | |
| odonata 2002-06-22, 8:59 am |
| Adding to list:
+ Matrix
+ Randstad
I heard from someone who actually worked at Matrix, that they have dead people names listed in their database (and I heard this back in 2000, I can't imagine what a mess they are now!). They always advertise on computerjobs.com, and the positions listed are real generic, so they are just posting the job to collect resumes.
I did get my first IT position through Randstad (year 2000), but once they place you, forget about ever hearing from them again!
My hubby once got an "IT Trainee" job (this was actually applying directly to company), and ended up being a telemarketer!!
Another job he just met a recruiter advertising a "networking" position, but it was really a data entry position. What a bunch of garbage! I wish I can remember the name of that place!
Regarding monster.com. I have received some junk mail from recruiters, but I have also actually received one phone call, and 2 emails asking if I'd be interested in interviewing for a position (all of this was directly from a company, not recruiter). Unfortunately 2 were out of state and the third I need my OCP first. So, monster can work!
(by the way, the skills they were seeking were OCP Appl. Developer (i need one more exam for that), and 2 specialized Microsoft products, ex: SharePoint) | |
| cciewannabe 2002-06-22, 10:45 am |
| it's a numbers game. if you go to monster, don't waste your time reading the job descriptions in detail. because 90% of them are bullsh** anyways. what i do/did is to just do a general search and become a machine at speed reading through the descriptions and zapping out resumes as fast as i can. This way with a half hour of work i got my resume out to 100s and if im lucky one or two of those will be seriously looking. if you accidentally apply for jobs you're not qualified or won't be interested in no big deal. don't worry about wasting their time by spamming resumes everywhere. if come to find out that you didnt look over the description well enough and you're not interested youll find that out in the call. ive wasted a lot of recruiters time by accidentally applying for jobs i wouldnt be interested in (and i dont care). because my options are to get my resume out without wasting a lot of my time, or to read every ad thourougly and spending a lot of my time. oh yeah, and one thing you never ever ever ever do, is to give them references before an interview. tell them youll bring the references to the first face to face interview. dont trust the recruiters with these, they'll captialize if they can. you should see how fast i get my resumes out on monster, im talking one every 10 seconds. if it looks good after speedreading AND is a direct employer, then you should call them, but dont waste your time calling recruiters because the job they're advertising may actually not be a job, and like others have said "they're just collecting resumes". it doesnt hurt to use monster, just be a good spammer and dont waste too much time up there. if youre going to call, you're better off calling companies directly and targeting companies not on monster. 9/10 of the recruiters on monster will just waste your time. thats my 2 cents | |
| cciewannabe 2002-06-22, 10:59 am |
| darthfeces,
i totally hear you!
check this monster posting out, this one has been up there for a while. this should be a total insult to anyone CCIE! i mean the level of knowledge and experience you need to get CCIE and the salary is a joke. AND and, they think they can limit it to just local candiates. i doubt they ever fill it, or at least i hope because its disgusting. IMO it's like offering an experienced medical doctor $50,000. well here it is. what a joke~!
US-GA-Marietta-CCIE's ONLY!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready to jump into a new career as a Sales Engineer. Our client is looking for a seasoned WAN Engineer with the CCIE.
Main responsibilities will include determining proper Cisco components for clients, designing VOIP and building systems. YOU MUST HAVE YOUR CCIE # ON YOUR RESUME OR YOU WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED FOR THIS POSITION!! The atmosphere is casual and commission potential is high! Georgia residents only!
Good Luck!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Information
Salary: USD 51,000.00 to USD 75,000.00 per year
Position Type: Full Time, Employee
Ref Code: CCIE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact Information
Angela Sliwinski
com.atlanta@remingtoni.com
Remington International
1200 Abernathy Road, Bldg 600, Suite 925
Atlanta GA 30328
Fax: 770-481-0690 | |
| RichardJW 2002-06-22, 11:49 am |
| Did you e-mail Angela to let her know? | |
| Sea Dragon 2002-06-22, 1:01 pm |
| HEY HEY HEY
KILLER POST
NOW FOR THE Solutions
I went to Academy the other day and started knocking doors.
I met the IT manager, but I could not get past her.
This was my first attempt
She told me he was not" he not available"
RIGHT
I told her, "what?s wrong, the humans species are afraid to TALK to a REAL fellow human face to face"
well
I was a bit nicer
now if the it manager was male
and
I was a bodacious looking chick, he would have died trying to get me to met him ( the network guy)
Well that?s just my perception, not that there is any thing wrong with that
Solutions my friends
Help us with tactics on how to knock the door down
Here you go, PUT YOUR SOLUTIONS PLEASE
Top 10 lines to get in the door
1. carry diodes, or a router and tell the security guy a line
2. follow the guy home, then at a later date, knock on his door as a hardy plank salesman and try to passivly talk about a job
3.Bring three hot chicks with me (decoys) | |
| buckwheat 2002-06-23, 3:03 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by SurfinUSA
I think you are right. I think what they do is that they gather a "pool" of people and when they finally do get a job, they have a bunch to choose from. I have experienced the same thing, and they really suck because it gets your hopes up that there may be a job out there for you and then, BOOM, you never hear from them again. Then when you call them, it was either filled or the company they are representing decided not to fill it (yeah right!).
Hear, hear! I've been lead up that alleyway more than a few times by recruiters to realize my mistake in trusting their word.
In the past two years I've talked to quite a number of recruiters and in my experiences with these agencies there is only one whom I'd rate as even fair. The rest are just PARASITES I regret wasting my time talking on the phone or meeting in person.
Here's some unscrupulous recruiters I'd like to see blacklisted:
1. Enterprise Resource Group, Inc.
2. Hall Kinion, Inc.
3. Robert Quinn Associates, San Francisco, CA
4. TCP, Inc.
5. Pegasus Consulting, Inc.
Just to name a few. | |
| sukuvi 2002-06-23, 5:54 pm |
| Wirechild,
You wrote:"I then called him and told him what I did and after about 10 mins he admitted to me there was no real company but his boss was presuring him."
Does this mean his boss was pressuring him to make up company hiring people so he could get IT people's resumes? | |
| louie305 2002-06-25, 3:18 pm |
| recruters are snakes they are only interseted in collecting resumes.
add these to the list.
RHI AGAIN THEY SUCK.
TECH SYSTEMS.
SAPHIRE TECHNOLGIES.
i wish there was a way to let them know how all of us feel that way they can change the way they recruit. anyway good post man. | |
| bonobo_jon 2002-06-25, 9:02 pm |
| Snake oil salesman, tow truck drivers,ambulance chasers, and IT recruiters are of the same breed. Here in Houston, they are often run by leather-face, big hair,uneducated MOrons. The sister-in-law with orange hair handels the phone and the toothless husband " cletus" is the CFO and big-hair is the " CEO". Guys, this is no BS, I actually visited one of these "firms" /two bit shops in houston just a month ago. with only 3 people and two computers and they try to run your life, your career for you.
here comes the lies: " oh, yeah, we are known throughout the Local IT industry, even nationally recongized/ i promise you will get perm in 2 to 3 months because i know the manager personally and plenty of guys from here has turned perm so the low hourly rate is worth it, hey you make almost a dollar more than the Macdonald guys....right ?? CLETUS?? ANSWER ME !!!Cletus?? you there??? you better sold all those skin-creams or else!!
So guys!! if you are going to get rip off at this age, go with a bigger recruiting firm, at least they wont nickel and dime you to death and if you see the big-hair in a small office next to a dentist office?? RUN!!!RUN away!! if all fails, run into the dental office, remember children, a tooth drill is less painful than a drill in the A$$.
peace
( i got a pretty ccnp logo on my resume, but do i get any wan or lan engineer jobs?? NO..and i had to take it off because no helpdesk wants me because then i will be Over-qualified) humm.....i wonder if the big hair has a pretty daughter named " daisy" | |
| Sea Dragon 2002-06-25, 9:56 pm |
| bonobo_jon
Tthats was funny
hey, I live in H-town
e-mial me
may tag uo for coffee or beer
seadragon2@earthlink.net |
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