CCNP - Anyway . . . about the CCNP

Author

Anyway . . . about the CCNP

BlueBaron

2001-04-18, 5:42 pm

I guess every community needs a "Dell" . . .
I work with an engineer who has basically developed his own formula for obtaining the CCNP. It is as follows:

Read the corresponding CiscoPress
book.
Take the Boson exams over and over
again.

It has worked like a charm for him. Now, this is simply for passing the exam, not for gaining the infinite Cisco knowledge most people desire.
Then again, does anyone really believe that their quest for Cisco knowledge is solely gained by way of certification?
It seems that many people are relying on certs to obtain their knowledge . . . does anyone else see this?

SpeakEasy

2001-04-19, 12:47 am

Well, I'm pursuing the NP/DP tracks in hope that a Cisco related company would offer me a job, - (been offered by Nortel, Alcatel, 3Com - but I want a Cisco). Each exam seems to be a fun ride after reading 'bout 4 books per paper, and only hell if I don't know what on earth are they talking 'bout in the question, (happend twice, and ended up blaming it on lack of hands-on).

After each exam, I feel guilty to have passed just by knowledge.... I think if after the BCRAN I don't hold a job, I'll be considering a competitor! I firmly believe that experience should have it's place in exams, as I'd feel low to be holding a certificate yet when thrown before a router/switch I'd fail at configuring it, or doing my duty. I guess for those reasons, I work as hard as I possibly can, and do labs on paper!

So, I reckon in pursuit of cisco knowledge, I should rank 'ok'. The CCO is not a bad spot either for info, - its got it all!

Dell

2001-04-19, 1:08 am

Certification is clearly not a way to get knowledge. It's a way to prove that you got the required knowledge.

P.S. :
"I guess every community needs a "Dell" . . . "
Stop speaking like a snake, blubaron!

Dillon

2001-04-19, 1:15 am

(Yawn! Boring....)

mbeaver

2001-04-19, 6:10 am

these exams show you have an aptitude for the material, a willingness to work hard and a desire to improve. I think this shows an attitude which can be just as important as hands-on experience.

Quintoh

2001-04-19, 6:37 am

Speakeasy,

Which tests have you taken so far?
I am scheduled for BSCN on Tuesday.

BlueBaron

2001-04-19, 9:40 am

I would have to agree MBeaver. Attitude DOES go a long way in this business.
However, I disagree with Dell in saying that certifications aren't a valid way to gain knowledge. (I'm paraphrasing here).
While you may not gain the highly sought after hands on, in the fire, experience . . . you WILL gain the fundamental knowledge that will make the hands on experience you DO get a lot more valuable. Just a thought.

Tommy

2001-04-19, 12:26 pm

You have to know your stuff to pass the CCNP exams this is not a easy task.

SpeakEasy

2001-04-19, 1:05 pm

Quintoh,
Completed BCMSN, and BSCN, - and planning to sit BCRAN by the 14th of May, and CIT should I continue by 7th of June....before embarking on DP....

And continuing into the CISSP and Ciscos' CISS....

SpeakEasy

2001-04-19, 1:14 pm

MBeaver and BB,

Thanks for the good words, - personaly I enjoy this field of technology, and the security aspect of it as well. My fun reading is 'hacking exposed' and the likes of books or cookbooks off the web....

And, tommy, you're absolutely right, a person does need to know their 'stuff' in order to pass the NP; and for that I read and I read, and I try to answer any question and all questions I find as explicit as possible, elaborating on anything I come across to try to draw the big-picture.

S.Easy....

ps:- I do not consider myself a peer with someone holding experience, however do consider myself as their student!

Charli

2001-04-19, 1:39 pm

You can get knologe if you read the Book but it's good idea to understand the book, no just take the exams to passed.

1networker1

2001-04-20, 1:06 am

strange BlueBaron thinks that this is the formula to pass the exam
----------------------------------------
Read the corresponding CiscoPress
book.
Take the Boson exams over and over
again.
----------------------------------------

I ask many peoples about it why they are using exams certs. the answer is only this that the want to prepare mentally for the exam and read the books for the knowledge which leads them to be a certified. I think its true if you don't converge your attentions for the exam its not easy to pass the exam. so you gain knowledge always from book, its the best way. you'll never get knowledge to just seeing a router or working or handling a cisco equipments.

hamradioman

2001-04-20, 7:14 am

I like a lot of people am currently working towards my Cisco CCNP. I had previously worked in the tech support arena for over 4.5 years and most recently working in the Technical Education Department of a large telecommunications equipment manufacturer giving practical network exams. That is until I was recently laid off.

I have been hearing the topic of "paper certs" vs. experience and gaining the cert. I personally think that a person willing to study dry technical texts hour on end, and then to sit for a poorly worded exam shows a lot of dedication and even lacking experience I would, if I was a hiring manager, hire that individual on work ethic principals.

There is a lot of talk of "paper certs", well I think there will always be that few that have a mind like a net and forget everything that they have read after the exam. There is no way to prevent this. Take a look at doctors, they spend years in school, and have many hours interning, etc. Yet every year, you hear of someoe laying on the surgeon's table and wake up and find that the wrong limb getting cut off. It happens everywhere.

Even if you are very experienced, most likely the first person to see your resume is a non technical person who is asked by there manager to go through resumes and pick out certain certification names, and buzz words. So my advise is to study your cert books and take the exams.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that no matter where you are employed, they most likely will not make use of everything you have learned. For instance, my last job dealt a lot with ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode), but a lot of companies do not use it.

Dell

2001-04-21, 9:55 am

BlueBaron is right about that.

I learn a lot when I use a boson exam (demo versions cause i'm too poor to buy the full) !

Now, Cert progs are even useful to get knowledge and pass test.

lcooper

2001-04-23, 2:47 pm

I would like to put my two-cents into certs argument since I am already
CCDA & CCNP.Here is my view to new comers as well as veterans."Get Certified and Get Ahead". Since gaining the ccnp status I have interviews with some major players in the telecommunication arena and right now it is hard making complete(maybe that will be my next topic)decision on which path to continue towards.Now for those of you who are looking for straight path to 100,000 salary think again.The ccnp & ccdp was meant to give individual like me hierarchical approach to gaining the most famous four digit numbers(ccie####).Gaining the ccnp should be only a beginning and will never replace the ccie status.As for me I am taking the cid(640-025) on April 26 and immediately after that CVOICE exam.Remember though the only choice you have to learn this technology and stay current is what other way than cisco certs..

BlueBaron

2001-04-23, 3:31 pm

1networker1 wrote:

quote:
strange BlueBaron thinks that this is the formula to pass the exam

Actually I never said that. What I said was:

quote:
I work with an engineer who has basically developed his own formula for obtaining the CCNP. It is as follows:

smacin40

2001-04-23, 5:38 pm

hamradioman

I like your posting and believe that is so true, yet folks or hiring managers in Colorado springs co. see it other ways. I have achieved my MCSE and other certs yet dont seem to be able to land a decent job. Im still doing helpdesk at around 30k a year. I have placed my resume out on the market. I might have a chance to work about 60 miles out of town in denver for about 7k more a year. Hopefully it is worth it, still help desk, at least level 2. Im currently seeking to complete my ccnp and really enjoy coming here everyday to see the new postings. Unlike the ccna posting, i see more discouragement then to move forward. Thankyou for the post. Blurebarron, great site, i been there and have been reading your forum.
Bluebarron, so you think the cisco press and boson are the way to get ready. Well im getting the books this weekend and have already started using the boson exams.

thankyou

mcse,mcp, ccna, a+,net +

BlueBaron

2001-04-23, 5:51 pm

Smacin40, thank you for your kind words about The Lounge.
Yes, I do feel that the CiscoPress books are the way to go. However, I would strongly encourage you to buy books on the same subject from different authors as well. Being able to cross reference will both help you to understand the material, as well as help you retain the information in your memory (Much of this I have already said in the "Study Habits" article).
The Boson exams, as far as I am concerned are still THE way to self test. The name XXXXXXXXXX has been getting thrown around a lot lately, but I have also read some negative feedback on them as well. Better to stay with a sure bet, and go Boson.

dabreeze

2001-04-23, 7:56 pm

Certification clearly is two fold:
1. Allows you to prove what you do know
2. Allows many to gain meaningful
knowledge in the process of
preparing for testing

Some may disagree but it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish with certification

comblues

2001-04-24, 1:03 pm

Well here's my take:

Read and re-read....

helps to be to have at least heard it once, if it has questions do them, it helps better to write it down.

But if you want to know a subject cold i.e. verbatim -- - I have but one suggestion: USE THE TESTS, TILL YOU KNOW EVERY QUESTION COLD!!!!

And simply put you will pass and you will eventually gain a fundamental undderstanding that you can temper with hands-on.

sorry hands-on with no fundamentals is nearly useless.

You need the whole package.

I use the tests first and exam cram or Troytech.

Then once I know the theory of gravity verbatim, then I start to leap tall buildings - cause I know where and when I will fall.

Just an idea but it helps...

Also if you ARE CERTIFIED you have a lot more chance of getting more hands-on in depth learning experiences than you will if YOU are NOT!!!

I mean that sincerely.

The cisco tests are not easy and even when you know the practice tests verbatim there is still a fundamental understanding of the question under a given sets of variables that must be addressed.

Read it, Remember it, Use it, Don't Lose it!

Simple as that.

Any questions?

Thanks

DBW

MCSE+I, CCNA, A+, Net+, I-Net+

CCIE in progress (Lab purchase in progress)

dmaftei

2001-04-24, 1:16 pm

quote:
Originally posted by comblues
<snip>
But if you want to know a subject cold i.e. verbatim -- - I have but one suggestion: USE THE TESTS, TILL YOU KNOW EVERY QUESTION COLD!!!!
<snip>
Any questions?

Yeah, I have a question. Isn't this "verbatim" thing another name for "braindumping"?!

Dell

2001-04-24, 1:29 pm

unlike a lot of people, i can say that i used braindumps.

I prepared my ccna exam with sybex and a lot of practice.
I got a ccna dump (about 100 questions) and studied the type of questions.

It's interesting to see that it's ... easier that what you thought.

comblues

2001-04-24, 1:57 pm

comblues

2001-04-24, 7:42 pm

Gosh some guys....

If it is a practice exam - it is NOT supposed to be the actual question on the test.

Now I have assembled almost every engine that exists for the entire CCNA/CCDA CCNP/CCDP CCIE tracks.

When I say "verbatim", what I mean is know the question, know the theme, know the proper usage and context of the question.

One word out of order changes things dramatically on Cisco exams.

I can say I used several of the best test engines and only saw maybe 6 or 7 actual questions after taking both the 407 and 507 exams (6 months apart). I used Bosons (1-3), Troytech and Exam Gear, and Keystone primarily (although I have access to the rest as well).

I passed them both, not because I had seen the question, but because no matter how you asked me subject I would answer correctly.

Do believe it try me. e-mail me and either we can chat or call direct.

I'm well-employed and I am a qualified expert in my field.

Now, I would appreciate you not twisting my words or attempting to "add" meaning to them.

I guess they'll let anyone be a moderator these days.

No, my friend, I am a capable administrator/network architect.

I run a Windows NT 4/2000 | Linux | SCO Network. I migrated it from Novell.

I am a Lucent Definity G3 PBX Administrator (yes SCO/Solaris Admin), as well.

I am a privately paid consultant as well as a full time employee, employed as a Network Specialist.

I am an Exchange Admin. I have administered Lotus Notes, Groupwise, and Sendmail.

I don't really need to prove the Cert Game - I do it for job enrichment and to feel like "I" know my subect better and therefore consider it professional continuing education.

I have consulted or sub-contracted for many Fortune 500 companies at rates up to $1600.00 per day + expenses and 1/2 day both ways.

No, I do not need to cheat to get anywhere.

I can be quite the pirate or hacker.

I have tracked and successfully caught hackers for "visiting" sites under my care.

Now before we turn this to a flame war.

Just remember I said know it cold - I mean understand it, period.

Imagine how you would employ the technology in various situations and under given duress.

Hell, if you have the equipment -do it.

Do I make myself clear?

Thank you

dmaftei

2001-04-24, 7:49 pm

quote:
Originally posted by comblues
...
Now before we turn this to a flame war.
...

Hey!! Take it easy, will ya!! I didn't get your point, I asked for a clarification! What's wrong with that?! You don't have to tell me the history of your life!

What the heck?! Whenever I ask a question I get somebody jumping at me...

comblues

2001-04-24, 8:36 pm

Sorry for hitting hard.

It just seems alot of people are devaluing the standards that the tests are trying to prove.

Basically the goal is to know the material.

I'm ex-military.

Now we had to qualify in knowledge, obtain signatures from senior personnel who were deemed experts in their specialty by either performing a given task or tasks and/or knowing the answer to a given set of questions, next we had to pass a written test, and finally we had to go before an oral review board.

Now we had to do this to qualify to stand watch, and to become Specialists for given duties and Warfare Designations.

Finally,when it came time for promotion one had to pass a final exam of sorts.

But to top it off, one's performance also comae into play, as did one's sense of fairness (equal opportunity), fitness (yes, exercise and body fat), etc.

Finally, to become the highest rank the ultimate judges came down to one's peers who had come before.

Now, if we strive to maintian that kind of sanctity for our careers and aptitudes then we would truly be professionals.

After all, this IS a life of SERVICE, and NOT necessarily a life of PRIVILEGE.

I hope I am not misunderstood, but WE need to maintain a sense of professionalism as professionals.

By constantly questioning the rights of passage of one's peers, we can only undermine that goal, and ultimately diminish the quality of our own accomplishments.

There is plenty of opportunity out there for everyone, both old and new.

Those who only pass by paper, may find that they do not like the lifestyle, but some who live the lifestyle may become tired of it at some point and seek other avenues, that's life.

WE as a community need to foster a sense of knowledge and professionalism.

That is what is sought after. Not necessarily a cert, those will come and go, but a sense of dignity and accomplishment about one's work and genuine effort remains for a lifetime.

Comblues

dmaftei

2001-04-24, 9:01 pm

quote:
Originally posted by comblues
Sorry for hitting hard.

Yeah, OK, although I don't see why you had to hit at all... Probably a military custom... (I'm joking! Let's relax a bit!

)

quote:
WE as a community need to foster a sense of knowledge and professionalism.

I guess everybody (well, almost...) agrees with this.

the_wanman

2001-04-25, 7:46 am

First of all, let me say that I am NEW to this forum and this is my first post.

I am seeing this trend of people only wanting Certifications as a means of getting into the Cisco networking realm. Along with my day job I am a CCNA instructor for a training company (I will decline to specify the company name). In my current class none of the students have ever laid their hands on a router before. They pay tons of money for these classes (sometimes financing the class through the school) and expect it to be their magic step into networking with NO hands-on experience. Disturbing...

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