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Home > Archive > Windows 2000 track general > September 2002 > Cheaters never prosper...
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Cheaters never prosper...
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| jeff_j_black 2002-08-27, 3:43 pm |
| Finally, someone dumps on the dumpers!!!
NEWS FLASH: Oregon resident Robert Keppel, owner of the now-defunct
braindump Web sites Cheet-Sheets.com and CheetSheets.com, pleaded
guilty in federal court Friday to a charge of theft of trade secrets,
in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1832(a)(2).
The charge resulted from allegations made by Microsoft that Keppel
was selling questions and answers to Microsoft certification exams.
When he's sentenced on November 1, Keppel faces up to 10 years in
prison and $250,000 in fines. He also forfeited a Lexus RX300, a
1997 Ferrari Spider and $56,000 in cash as part of a plea agreement.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX attempted to reach both Keppel and his attorney for
comment, but did not receive a response before this story was posted.
Assistant United States Attorney Annette Hayes, who prosecuted the
case, said this is first application of the theft of trade secrets
statute to procure a conviction within the realm of IT certification
testing. In June, police in Bexar County, Texas seized the assets of
TestKiller LTD and its owners citing the same felony charge, but
criminal charges have not been filed in that case.
Previously, most "braindump" cases were pursued in civil court, citing
copyright and trademark violations. "The [theft of trade secrets]
statute is not that old... which is probably why there hasn't been
many [criminal cases of this type]. But there's nothing unique about
this case," said Hayes. "We picked this statute because it was the one
that applied."
According to Microsoft, the case began when the company received
allegations from customers that the content of Keen's CheetSheets
contained live exam items. Microsoft made a criminal complaint to
the Federal Bureau of Investigations during the summer of 2001, which
turned the investigation over to its Computer Crimes Division.
Continued at:
http://XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX/editorial/ne...ditorialsID=336 | |
| Sexy Lexy 2002-08-27, 4:33 pm |
| Great news.
I asked what cheet sheets were in a post a few weeks back as someone said they were using cheet sheets as a study aid.
I'm not surprised that they didn't reply as they are braindumps and they admitted to using them to pass the exam!!!!
I realise now why I did not get a response.
If we see an end to the braindumps and braindump sites this in turn will see an end to those who use the product which is great news for those who put real effort into passing the exam without cheating.
 | |
| Bingram 2002-08-28, 1:42 pm |
| There is still a very, very wide gray area IMO. I can understand the legal reason cheetsheets and others have been slammed, and would hope the *braindump*.com sites (insert string variable for the *) would be closed. But when 90% of the so-called legit practice exams are simply reworded MS questions, then where do you draw the line?
For example, some months back, I purchased a "guide" from very prominently advertized prep site <no names mentioned>. I was upset to find it esentially a braindump with minor rewording to avoid copywright infringement. Every single test question I saw on the real exam was in that "guide." No fooling. Yet, here on this forum we will call it a "guide" and not a braindump. I've asked the for my money back, but have not gotten a response.
My point is let's get off the fence and call 'em what they are. Instead of reccomending "practice tests" to those working for these certs, why not reccomend they take the time to read the books and practice the techniques hands on (and I know Jeff has been pushing just this a lot lately).
My next point, to the folks at MS, why not make the move that will negate all the braindumping? Why not integrate more adaptive simulations into the certification exams? Other companies have done so, and with great success. | |
| jeff_j_black 2002-08-28, 2:31 pm |
| I think if you read any of my posts regarding practice tests, none of them exclude study or hands-on. If you want to learn about something, I have always recommended a three point approach:
Theoretical: Read books, study references on the web, discuss with other students.
Practical: Use the software or hardware that is the topic of your study. You have not learned anything without this.
Exam Practice: Yes, I recommend this as the exam is usually a limited approach to measure your understanding that you've gained from the steps above. If you don't comprehend the interface of the exam, you could fail even though you have a thorough understanding of the material. It would be like running a marathon without ever having run before. Certainly, you can walk and running is just a logical extension of walking, except there's a period of time when neither foot is on the ground. To prepare for a marathon you actually run several marathons, or portions thereof, until you know you can go the distance.
I don't completely get the point of what you are saying, is it that it's okay to use dumps because legitemate vendors come pretty close to the real exam in their product? Or that I'm a dumper because I recommend the use of legitemate materials, when preparing for an exam.
I have not been pushing anything a lot lately, but I object to your reference towards me. In fact 2 - 3 of my recent posts are links to vital documents that are straight from Microsoft, Cisco and IETF. I have not downloaded or purchased any questionable materials, but you have.
For any of you who are working towards any certification, please put me on record as saying 'No dumps, read, get hands on, and practice.' | |
| Bingram 2002-08-28, 2:50 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by jeff_j_black
I have not been pushing anything a lot lately, but I object to your reference towards me. In fact 2 - 3 of my recent posts are links to vital documents that are straight from Microsoft, Cisco and IETF. I have not downloaded or purchased any questionable materials, but you have.
For any of you who are working towards any certification, please put me on record as saying 'No dumps, read, get hands on, and practice.'
What I said:
Instead of reccomending "practice tests" to those working for these certs, why not reccomend they take the time to read the books and practice the techniques hands on (and I know Jeff has been pushing just this a lot lately).
Perhaps a misunderstanding. I'm commending you for reccomending the hands on approach over the quick and easy braindump approach. I don't think we differ here.
BTW, as far as the questionable material, it came from a vendor advertized on this website. I won't name names as that will lead to a stampeed of "braindumpees" looking for an easy way out. | |
| Zaraspook 2002-08-28, 2:53 pm |
| To the contrary Jeff, I think Mr. Bingram was just being very complimentary to you, because of your exemplary record of encouraging the reading of books and the performing of excercises to properly learn the material. | |
| jeff_j_black 2002-08-28, 4:19 pm |
| Okay, fair enough, just got back from lunch and well the blood and the sugar just haven't finished mixing.
My appologies to all... | |
| KScheler 2002-08-28, 7:57 pm |
| I have to agree with Jeff. Read the material, get the hands-on, and work thru some practice exams. There are 2 that MS recommends, Selftest and MeasureUP, that are certified by MS. Also, there are others that are reputable. Many use Trandsenders. I have used them myself for the 4 core and never saw an "exact" question that was on the exam.
The practice exams are to help you get a feel of the exams themselves, how you do on your time allotment, and so forth. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever replace having the hands-on experience along with the theory found in the various books.
Just my 2 cents worth.................. | |
| Tech Ranger 2002-08-28, 7:59 pm |
| When I took my 215 test, I was very upset to see several questions on the test virtually word for word the same as questions I had encountered at a Practice test site. Not only is that site advertised at Examnotes, but it is recommended by at least one Moderator. I am now studying for 218, and I am quite apprehensive about using practice tests because I am not sure which ones are created fairly and which are organized, profit making brain dumps. | |
| jeff_j_black 2002-08-28, 8:05 pm |
| I agree. I have seen word for word questions. But at the same time, there were more than enough questions where the practice vendor had it just different enough where you had to know why and that is the crux of the exam process. Knowing which answers are patently wrong and knowing why the correct answer is right. And I think some companies do quite well in this respect. | |
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| I don't condone the use of braindumps, nor am I naive enough to think that they are not used anymore. Just consider the price of advertising on braindump sites and the fact that their banner rotations are heavy, and you will see that advertisers are clearly interested despite the big cost, which means that the traffic they draw is huge.
This said, I love it when people who use braindumps interview right before me. It makes me look gooooooooooooooood, baby  | |
| Teck Shark 2002-08-29, 8:57 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by freak
This said, I love it when people who use braindumps interview right before me. It makes me look gooooooooooooooood, baby
100% AGREED! I love it too. Anything to make me look better, baby! | |
| ctrlaltdel 2002-08-30, 6:34 am |
| There is an old saying when I was in the car business "There's no substitute for cubic inches" well I feel the same goes for the IT industry "There's no substitute for experience and the will to learn and keep learning"
I say let'em sweat when those paper certs get thrown in a mission critical situtation.
They won't be there long.
Ha ha too funny | |
| DivxGuy 2002-08-30, 2:22 pm |
| Thanks Jeff, for brightening up my day.
I hope this statute can also be used against sites that advertise braindumps or link to braindump vendors. Maybe, just maybe, vendor certifications will regain some of their long-lost lustre!
RD | |
|
| eeerr... then apply that same law to everything else *illegal* and then you will see service provider shuting down... god forbid if a link come up in a search engine...
what? search child porn in google? put google in jail...
give me a break, everyone who fought for our digital freedom is rolling their eyes. | |
| Pavlov 2002-08-30, 5:07 pm |
| quote:
I hope this statute can also be used against sites that advertise braindumps or link to braindump vendors
You do realize that ExamNotes would be a target on that list, right???
Somebody has to pay for the site - so I guess it's up to the dopes that buy "study guides" from those particular sites | |
| Tech Ranger 2002-08-30, 5:52 pm |
| There is a moderator at Examnotes who feverishly condemns dumps (and I whole heartedly agree with that position), and at the same time recommends a practice test site that I personally used and was shocked to see questions on my test that were exactly the same as that which I received for a fee from the site. I would hope that that moderator is unaware of this sad state of affairs. My problem is now I am preparing for 218 and I don't know where to go to get an honest practice test. I DO NOT want to cheat. But I need some practice. | |
|
| who is to say that the ads on this site is of that nature?
who is to say that this guy's business was anything less than legit 6 months ago?
that's the problem, there is no guidance. As far as I am concern, it is not my responsibility to ensure the study material I got from a source that's well publicized, and pressumeably well knowned by the exam venders, to be legit.
The problem is the stance the exam venders has taken. I believe they have purposely left this area gray... why has microsoft taken so long to act against cheet-sheets even after comptia had successfully got their material removed? bear in mind, the cert industry is many years old... this is nothing new...
anyway, I am bitter cuz I just took another useless and stupid exam and am very disappointed at the exam venders...it really beg the question if they even care about the quality of their own certified individuals.... | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by Tech Ranger
There is a moderator at Examnotes who feverishly condemns dumps (and I whole heartedly agree with that position), and at the same time recommends a practice test site that I personally used and was shocked to see questions on my test that were exactly the same as that which I received for a fee from the site. I would hope that that moderator is unaware of this sad state of affairs. My problem is now I am preparing for 218 and I don't know where to go to get an honest practice test. I DO NOT want to cheat. But I need some practice.
I think that you should PM this mod and talk to them about it. I am a mod, and if I recommend a site by mistake, I sure want to know it... I am sure that all mods feel the same way on this forum. | |
| xonkers 2002-09-09, 2:25 am |
| Here is what I think over 65% of the people on this site do.
They study very hard to learn and understand the subjects. Then they search the Net vigourously for anything in terms of practice exams etc. They inevitably find out about some braindumps. They justify looking at them in the following way:
"These arent called braindumps but 'review' practice simulations so it doesnt count"
"Im against these and am only reading them to see what they are and then disapprove"
"I did read them but I knew all the answers to them anyway (we all knew that one when we see the correct choice)"
"I only used them for review and ideas and it doesnt matter because I studied about any I didnt know"
Later most people on this site will be harshly anti-braindump. This is because they dont want to lose status but also because they would just love it if all braindumps were shut down and removed... AFTER they got theirs. That way they can say 'Hmm well I passed mine and I didnt use any braindumps'
That is my opinion anyway and while I know many have not used them I also think many are pure BS and can write me back a denial yet know deep down who they are.
well too bad because I will study any resources available. I will actually study even if someone gives me the answer I will try and learn it. Sorry folks but I will not let you scare or bluff me out of beating or matching your scores. nice try.
The best comment made in this thread was the guy who pointed out the MASSIVE popularity and hits and advertising on braindumps (err.. practice simulation) sites. The numbers dont lie, and keep in mind that the guy who we are supposedly so happy and righteous about getting busted... He made half a million dollars!!!
If it wasnt MCSE students then who the hell bought all those anyway!?
Well that is my little rant for the evening
Cheers | |
| necrophantasm 2002-09-09, 4:55 am |
| As much as I dissaprove with Braindumps, I have to think that this is another losing battle for Microsoft (much like their new fight against anti-piracy). As long as students are willing to pay for these dumps, and there is money to be made, new companies and sites will just keep popping up and posting them. Just like as long as there are anti-Microsoft programmers out there (or even just release groups and news servers) people will be cracking their algorithms, figuring out how to disable their call home features, and dissassembling and destroying whatever copyright implementations they can think of. It's great that Cheetsheats and Testkiller are shut down, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them replaced by new dump companies within the next few months. Microsoft makes certification a business (and not just a tool to validate skills). As long as that aspect of the industry is viewed this way, they will continue to have problems with dumps. Look at Cisco, they don't advertise their certifications to pump them up and make the world go get them. They simply list them for those who are interested, and then do their best to keep the tests from getting into the wrong hands. Perhaps it is just in my mind (I mean the tests ARE the same price for both companies) but it seems like certification is another way to make $$$ to Microsoft, and that may not be 100% true for Cisco. Anyway, before I get too side-tracked here, this seems to be what will happen to me. | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by xonkers
Sorry folks but I will not let you scare or bluff me out of beating or matching your scores. nice try.
Don't be sorry, nobody here gices a rat's behind on what your score is, and whether you beat our score or not... don't get me wrong, we -- at least I -- wish you all the success in the world. I just don't see your score as a threat to me in any way. I hope you get a perfect score, and I will be the first one to compliment you and congratulate you. Many people on this board and others have gotten better scores than I have, but I yet have to lose any sleep over it.
To quote the movie, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn..." | |
| Bingram 2002-09-09, 10:28 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by xonkers
Here is what I think over 65% of the people on this site do.
Heck, I'd say from appearances the percentage is higher than that.
My main beef with the "sample tests" or "study guides" or "review exams" advertized as legit is they are simply playing word games with the real exam. So why not just say what they really are?
Yet another fine example: Last month while preparing for the Linux +, I subscribed to the "Question of the Day." Twenty days of questions (20 questions for those still stuck in binary). Upon post test review, I could honestly say 12 of the 20 were similar or were exactly like those seen on the real test. We're playing a game in semantics (not symantec BTW).
Take the case of Transenders. Is it any coincidence the majority of staff writers also have law degrees? Perhaps testkillers and cheatsheets are singled out because they failed to hire good lawyers to screen their product?
Even better question, if the vendor or sponsor advertizes the guide as legit, but it turns out later to be a thinly vieled copy of the real exam, who should be burned for it? The student or the supplier? Or even better, perhaps the exam vendor for producing such a easily circumvented evaluation system?
I think it is time we applaud companies like ISC2 for exams like CISSP. (It is a tough exam, and furthermore, you have to prove you've done your time (3 years in the field) to take it. ) Or applaud Cisco. Face it, anyone with a CCIE gets immediate respect in this field. | |
| xonkers 2002-09-09, 3:42 pm |
| Hey Freak just so you know I wasnt addressing that to you or most of the people in this thread.
I was being a bit cheeky with that statement and I really dont care about scores either.
What I do know is that there are people that are afraid of that and want to protect their own braindump enhanced scores because THEY care about being a 'cert-wizard' over their peers.
I have seen this at the school and I find it disgusting. I have caught some students repeatedly using braindumps over and over and I never said anything until I watched as they lorded and bragged their scores and in some cases actually humiliated other lower scoring students who never used ANY resources outside the courseware.
When I try and call them on it - suddenly they deny using dumps to enhance their 'precious highest score' and/or claim they only read them because they knew all the answers anyway.
Im actually with you on this - in fact I really dont give much to the scores at all. A pass is a pass and anything else is not that signifigant to my mind.
That is not the case with the 'secret braindumper kings' and hence my cheeky-ness LOL | |
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| Is it fair to say that braindumps are to certs, what steroids are to baseball players? | |
| DivxGuy 2002-09-09, 6:31 pm |
| Not really--steroids are a fast track to building muscle, while braindumps don't accomplish anything at all.
RD | |
|
| Let me rephrase... are the home run records in the steroid era as hollow as certs obtained with braindumps? | |
| Zaraspook 2002-09-09, 8:18 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by DivxGuy
Not really--steroids are a fast track to building muscle, while braindumps don't accomplish anything at all.
RD
Use steroids to build muscle! What do you get when you stop taking them? Nothing!
Use braindumps to pass certifications! What do you get when you finish them? Nothing!
There's no shortcuts to success! Only nose to the grindstone hardwork and dedication! And the sooner people realize it, the sooner they will be better for it! | |
| Tech Ranger 2002-09-09, 8:26 pm |
| Can anybody recommend a good practice test source that does not publish actual exam content? I would love to do some practice without sacrificing my priciples. I am really agonizing over this. I feel that I can't trust anyone. | |
|
| www.beachfrontdirect.com is a reliable source, and their testing engine is a great learning tool... download one of their free demo tests and you will see if the questions are up to your standards. | |
| Zaraspook 2002-09-09, 9:05 pm |
| Self-Test Software and Measure-Up or two testing vendors recommended by Microsoft. | |
| Bingram 2002-09-10, 11:20 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by freak
www.beachfrontdirect.com is a reliable source, and their testing engine is a great learning tool... download one of their free demo tests and you will see if the questions are up to your standards.
The more I have used beachfront, the more I am impressed with their study guides (not test questions, text study guides). They recently released a study guide for the beta of CompTIA's Security+, plus a simulated exam. As far as I know, these products were produced BEFORE the Security+ exam was even offered in beta. So unless they used some "insider knowledge," which I doubt was the case, TCat and others did a noteworthy job.
Sort of inspires me to take the Security + in beta just to have something to compare it to. | |
| freak 2002-09-10, 11:23 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Bingram
The more I have used beachfront, the more I am impressed with their study guides (not test questions, text study guides). They recently released a study guide for the beta of CompTIA's Security+, plus a simulated exam. As far as I know, these products were produced BEFORE the Security+ exam was even offered in beta. So unless they used some "insider knowledge," which I doubt was the case, TCat and others did a noteworthy job.
Sort of inspires me to take the Security + in beta just to have something to compare it to.
Yup, they do a great job indeed... | |
|
| Is testking the same as Cheet Sheets. Because I find it ironic that I recieved my MCP Flash email and in it was a link for Test King. This email came from Microsoft so I was very suprised to see advertising for a Cheet Sheet type of site. I guess everyone needs those advertising dollars. | |
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