| Author |
Definition of paper MCSE
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| DivxGuy 2002-05-12, 7:55 pm |
| I was of the opinion that the term "paper MCSE" referred to someone who cheated their way to the certification via "techniques" such as cram schools, braindumps, and Troytechs.
Comments?
RD | |
| cross36 2002-05-12, 8:58 pm |
| It could be that. Then ll certs are just papers. Best to direct it to, if the person is in fact in the IT field | |
| KScheler 2002-05-12, 9:48 pm |
| I was under the impression that it meant someone that passed the tests but had little or no hands-on experience with the product, which could be done with braindumps, books, etc. | |
| secondskin 2002-05-12, 9:54 pm |
| Id agree with KScheler. | |
| DivxGuy 2002-05-12, 11:46 pm |
| I found an interesting write-up on the MCSE cert; I like what this write had to say about those who choose the self-study route. 
RD | |
| KScheler 2002-05-13, 7:47 am |
| Very truthful article. | |
| TpaBrad 2002-05-13, 9:37 am |
| Excellent editorial, I liked his definaition of a paper mcse, Paper MCSE is person that holds the certification, but lacks the knowledge to actually be a productive part of IT society. Bad for the industry, and bad for certifications. | |
| lspence812 2002-05-14, 4:08 pm |
| I agree on the definition of a Paper MCSE being someone with little to know real world experience, however someone making a career change or deciding to just get into networking doesn't have a choice with experience. Same thing as someone graduating with a BS or MS having all the book knowledge, but little to no real world experience.
Everyone needs a chance. Getting the cert. shows you are competent enough to understand the theory and concepts.
Just my .02 cents in favor of Paper MCSEs trying to get a break.  | |
| cross36 2002-05-16, 1:13 pm |
| I like the article Divx. Well put | |
| BootData 2002-05-16, 8:01 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by lspence812
......
Everyone needs a chance. Getting the cert. shows you are competent enough to understand the theory and concepts.
Just my .02 cents in favor of Paper MCSEs trying to get a break.
I agree | |
| lifelearner 2002-05-16, 8:20 pm |
| DivxGuy
Thanks for the excellent link! I am very similar to the author. I am a career changer and am having to go the self study route. It does seem to take FOREVER, but the "slow" way doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad way. The article was insightful and gave me some much needed hope that this is not all for naught!
Thanks again! | |
| jarbob69 2002-05-17, 12:37 pm |
| The MCSE cert was designed for people with several years administering and troubleshooting enterprise class Windows networks. People with no experience who memorize test questions have no business polluting the job market by trying for their MCSE before they attain relevant training and/or on the job experience. Sure, it will take a little longer, but you won't get fired your first week for not knowing how to do minimal troubleshooting jobs.
I could easily (assuming I had the time..) study for and pass the rest of the exams I need for the MCSE cert with the right tools and brain dumps. But I refuse to get a piece of paper that says something that isn't really representive of my knowledge and skills. Just my two cents..I aplolgize if I stepped on any toes | |
| DivxGuy 2002-05-17, 1:05 pm |
| I got my MCSE because I wanted a basic grounding in MS network and operating systems systems.
The very first MCSE exam I took was 70-029, and I passed it on the first try with a healthy margin. Ironically, considering your words, I read in an online forum a posting from a fellow purporting to be a professional DBA, complaining that the test was too hard, and that he'd failed it several times (I don't think you could pass 70-029 via braindumps because there are too many "choose all that apply" scenario-type questions).
RD | |
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| Yeah
Paper = mean only get the Paper, but nothing real inside.
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| stinger6 2002-05-20, 11:26 am |
| That was a great article! I agree with the author about the braindumps. Say what you want, but if nothing else they give you confidence when testing. I studied my XXX off for Net+, got the braindump and passed. As far as the "paper MCSE", I want to relate a quick true story. 2 years ago my company hired a 19 year old kid with no experience in the IT field. He had his NT MCSE already and was hired pretty much on that basis. His only experience with the O/S was fooling around with it at home. He told us that he had basically walked in "off the street" and taken the core exams and had gone to a few classes for electives. We all thought "Paper MCSE" for sure. As it turned out, the kid (now the lead tech on my account) knows NT inside and out and has never failed to answer any of our questions correctly. Is he a "paper MCSE"? I don't think so. He knew what he was doing, but with no work experience needed the cert to get his foot in the door. I can hosnestly say that I'm going to study for the MCSE tests, but I'm getting the brain dump too. I'm not spending $100 only to find out that I failed by two questions. Call me crazy, but I want a return on my investment! | |
| NickL 2002-05-20, 11:02 pm |
| {{{As far as the "paper MCSE", I want to relate a quick true story. 2 years ago my company hired a 19 year old kid with no experience in the IT field. He had his NT MCSE already and was hired pretty much on that basis. His only experience with the O/S was fooling around with it at home. He told us that he had basically walked in "off the street" and taken the core exams and had gone to a few classes for electives. We all thought "Paper MCSE" for sure. As it turned out, the kid (now the lead tech on my account) knows NT inside and out and has never failed to answer any of our questions correctly. Is he a "paper MCSE"? I don't think so. He knew what he was doing, but with no work experience needed the cert to get his foot in the door.}}}
Sure, two years ago this may have been so during the extreme labor shortage, but it certainly, certainly would not hold true today. I can't see how a company would hire someone on the basis of certification alone, without the relevant experience, let alone a BS degree.
The best advice is to go for the degree and get experience BEFORE certification. | |
| stinger6 2002-05-21, 12:44 am |
| Perhaps in the accounting field a Bachelors or even Masters is the foundation for employment, but in the IT field employers look first at certs or at least a combo of experience and certs. At least that has been my experience as both an employee and supervisor. I myself have a degree, but employers want to know if you can administer their network, not explain the differences between a mastaba and a pyramid. It may not be fair, but it is true. This is not meant to minimize the importance of higher education, I simply don't agree that your steps to certification are realistic. In a perfect world everyone would go to college before venturing into the job market, but that's not the way the real world works. I guess the question here is "Who would get the network analyst job, an MCSE with 6 months experience or someone with a BS in Computer Science with 6 months experience?
My money's on the MCSE. Anyone else have some insight? | |
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| I agree with stinger, In Uni. they just teach the basic things, who can admin a LAN with Bsc.?????
For Troytech, Cramsession.. they dont real a bible to get passed, who can just read these stuff and get MCSE (and other cert?) they should be a shortlist beside MS press, sybex..
I'll be taking 70-217 in 2 month and I will try to remember as many answer as poss. just to increase the chance, I dont have much money to take it twice! | |
| KScheler 2002-05-24, 9:09 am |
| I've been watching this with interest since my first post. I teach at a technical college where we train our students to be Network Admins. http://www.networkcollege.net They go through a 6 semester program, about 1 1/2 years to get an AAS degree. Most of our grads are coming back to tell us that employers want certs along with the degree. We now offer specializations in MS, Unix, Novell, & Cisco. We had a rep. from a school district come looking for an Admin. Out of 13 that applied, the one that got the job was one that passed 210-Pro two days before. He was the only that applied that had a cert. | |
| stinger6 2002-05-24, 1:41 pm |
| Here, here! |
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