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Home > Archive > CNE > August 2002 > Netware Boot Camp?
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Netware Boot Camp?
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| Hi, Everyone.
I'm new to this forum -- have been working on the Microsoft side of things -- but hope to start hitting my Novell certs hard next year.
Just attended an outstanding boot camp for the MCSE at ACREW. Didn't get the full MCSE (didn't expect to - not enough experience under my belt) but was totally wowed by the quality of the camp and the instructor.
I just sent an e-mail to the owner of the camp, asking if they would ever hold one for Netware 6. He indicated that it was a possibility if he thought there was enough interest.
So... here's my question. Does anyone that frequents this forum think there is enough interest out there for a brutal but absolutely fabulous training experience like ACREW? It's kind of pricey but well worth it (especially if your company would pay for it!!).
Told John I would send out a feeler on the forum.
Thanks. | |
| dheinsdorf 2002-08-05, 10:28 pm |
| How do those boot camps even work? I imagine they dont follow the standard course materials but instead condense them. I think its been traditional for Novell training to never pump out paper holding professionals that lack hands on.
Im just starting the MCSA and took 2151/2152 already. I was told Microsoft is gearing towards more hands on being needed to pass thier certs - as apparently they learned some lessons in the past. In 7 years I have never heard of any Novell boot camps. Personally I want to know what I am doing when I hit the console. | |
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| I take offense to your comments, dheinsdorf. You are calling me paper certified, are you not?
I have been studying for my Microsoft tests pretty freaking hard, I'm thinking. The ACREW boot camp, unlike many, many others I have read about, is not about paper-certification. It's about training, studying, and long, long hours. Our days there were spent in class from 8:00 - 6:00 EVERY DAY with time for study every night from 7:00 - 10:00 (or however long we could stand it). Our trainer was - hands down - the best teacher I have ever had. Ever. Period. And I've had a lot. He was a walking Microsoft Encyclopedia with compassion and outstanding teacher skills - an odd mix.
Yes, the class was accelerated but we were NOT give the answers to questions. ACREW is one of the few boot camps who will not guarantee that you will pass your exams. They do, however, guarantee that you will learn.
I left there passing three out of the seven exams. I took four. I did not even attempt to take the other three because I knew I did not have the experience to pass these exams. However, the learning experience was invaluable and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
No distractions. No t.v. Intense learning environment from an outstanding and professional teacher. What's wrong with this again? I've attended the "weak" long classes for IT -- they are pathetic. I self-study at home -- with two kids, a dog, a spouse, a job, housework, neighbor kids, television, playstation..... It's slow, at best. Two weeks of eating, breathing, and burping Microsoft was, indeed, a breath of fresh air. I learned more in those two weeks (and took it back to work and APPLIED it) than I ever thought imaginable in such a short time.
I personally know of two other members of this site who have attended and learned from the boot camp experience. They are both active members and well-respected. I would imagine the prevalent and inexperienced attitude toward boot camps in general is why they have never come forward and "admitted" this.
I will, though. I've nothing to lose. I'm very proud of my certs. I sweated blood to get them.... | |
| DemiGod 2002-08-06, 6:56 am |
| I've heard of these boot camps and have heard good reviews from attendees for both MCSE and Cisco Camps.
I don't think they're for me though, I like to spend a couple days on each section of material and go over what I don't understand or feel weak in before I move on.
For me a boot camp would move to quickly for my study habits.
But hey, if it works for you go for it!! | |
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| quote:
I have been studying for my Microsoft tests pretty freaking hard, I'm thinking. The ACREW boot camp, unlike many, many others I have read about, is not about paper-certification. It's about training, studying, and long, long hours.
I left there passing three out of the seven exams. I took four. I did not even attempt to take the other three because I knew I did not have the experience to pass these exams. However, the learning experience was invaluable and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
No distractions. No t.v. Intense learning environment from an outstanding and professional teacher. What's wrong with this again? I've attended the "weak" long classes for IT -- they are pathetic. I self-study at home -- with two kids, a dog, a spouse, a job, housework, neighbor kids, television, playstation..... It's slow, at best. Two weeks of eating, breathing, and burping Microsoft was, indeed, a breath of fresh air. I learned more in those two weeks (and took it back to work and APPLIED it) than I ever thought imaginable in such a short time.
I will, though. I've nothing to lose. I'm very proud of my certs. I sweated blood to get them.... [/B]
Why wouldn't you attempt the other exams...weren't they included in your boot camp price?
Also, I could do well without the boot camp. I could cram, cram, cram some more in a little time and pass exams and learn material and save a bundle of money. I am not putting down the boot camps, ACREW seems very good! I am like the others I prefer hands-on and wiithout "intense training." Good luck on your recruiting! | |
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| ...to those of you who at least don't place these bootcamps in the "braindump" category (though some, indeed, are).
DemiGod, I agree. It moved very, very quickly. Which is why, bkone, I didn't attempt the other three tests. Yes, they taught for them and provided the books and the Transcenders.... but I wasn't ready.
The camp provided hands on - we had both 2K Pro and 2K Server boxes to work with. We also had 24/7 access to the lab. At ACREW, you don't leave the camp. You eat, sleep, and study there.
Anyway, I went to the camp knowing I wouldn't leave with an MCSE as I don't have enough experience under my belt. I could have tried the exams (I did, actually, try 219 and got very, very close - was the best FAIL I ever had!!! - Forgot about this one.) but wanted to spend my time focusing on the 215.
Anyway, believe it or not, I don't work for ACREW. I just really enjoyed the experience (sick, aren't I?) and would love to have this kind of immersion training in Novell. Unfortunately, it looks like I won't get it. There just isn't the demand for Novell, anymore. | |
| dheinsdorf 2002-08-06, 10:28 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by TRIBO
I take offense to your comments, dheinsdorf. You are calling me paper certified, are you not?
I have been studying for my Microsoft tests pretty freaking hard, I'm thinking. The ACREW boot camp, unlike many, many others I have read about, is not about paper-certification. It's about training, studying, and long, long hours.
No I am not. Obviously you have not been around the CNE forum long enough to know that if I wanted to make that point I would have said it directly. Sorry if I touched a nerve but my point was that Microsoft certs prior to 2000 had a reputation for not being up to snuff compared to Novell, and the boot camps just make it worse.
I dont care what you say, I dont believe for a second that slow careful intake and hands on application of knowledge can be replaced by boot camp type methods. It doesnt matter how hard you worked or how hard it was, nor the cost or reputation. Its too much data too fast and lack of retention is inevitable.
Take a 1 or 2 week boot camp MCSE versus a 1 year MCSE - if the candidates both got jobs in the same department, well whether the boot camp guy is good or not, he's gonna look like a paper MCSE next to the other guy.
If the job requires an MCSE, or someone needs to fill some shoes real fast, or like you said, no time or proper surroundings to study at home - sounds like a good thing that Boot camps are available. But you have to wonder why theres none (apparently) with Novell's stamp of approval.
I dont know you, you may be just fantastically gifted. But boot camps push out paper engineers. They just get you a cert to get a job. Its not even a good way to learn the curriculum - its just A way. It takes years of hands on to become proficient. | |
| TRIBO 2002-08-06, 12:01 pm |
| I am in no way implying that a two-week boot camp replaces experience. Nothing replaces experience. Period.
...and there are Novell boot camps out there. Just not many. And none at ACREW. Which is the only one I would probably ever attend. Nor is there much formal training available at all anymore for Novell. Lack of general interest.
I worked for my certs and only attempted the ones that covered topics I had some experience with. The boot camp filled in a lot of the gaps. I am in no way fantastically gifted. Bummer for me.
I'm also not an MCSE. But I will be, eventually. After I gain more experience. As I said, I didn't attend the boot camp to become an MCSE. If that was my sole intent, I'd have attended one that guarantees the certification by providing students with questions and answers. I attended the boot camp to learn.
Sorry if I misjudged your opinion of my certs, D. Your comments regarding "paper holding professionals" and "knowing what (I'm) doing when I hit the console" led me to believe you were describing your opinions of certifications obtained in a boot camp.
But as I said, I'm not fantastically gifted... | |
| dheinsdorf 2002-08-06, 4:17 pm |
| No Problem whatsoever. You acknowledge the value (or difference) of the long drawn out method versus others. People just have to know there is a difference and different payback.
Plus you asked a question and was just being cool trying to hook up anyone interested. Sorry about any flak. I checked out the ACREW web site - seen it in the back of trade magazines before, looks killer.
I really enjoy taking classes and any group of people who package together a place like that (assuming its all good) has to be a great experience.
Now about this Novell thing. Are you aware that Novell is geared for a pretty good comeback run - maybe better put they attempting it now (still in the first 100 days) and its pretty much do or die? The prospects are better now (imho) than at any other time since they lost the battle. Its a Chris Stone, Jack Messman, Three Amigos thing (people who you may want to look into if you havnt and feel interested). I have seen Novell cut from schools in Phoenix - but then the teachers and classes made it over to the Ikon school so now theres more, fuller classes at greater frequency.
Anyhow Novell's got a chance. The last people to ask anything regarding Novell are Microsoft diehards - they generally dont know the battleplan and they'll dog out Novell any chance they get anyways.
Are you supporting any Novell or just going for the CNA for the resume? You mentioned NetWare6. Starting off with NW6 would be like learning to drive in a Ferarri! I bet it will be 2 years before they require a 5-6 update on the cert. If your only doing a CNA, 5.1 is plenty meaty. NW6 is gnarly bitchin though. | |
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| I inherited my job about 2.5 years ago and I love it, though I often times feel inadequate, especially with Novell. I have a small network: one W2K database / application server and one Novell file/print server. About 30 clients running the gamut of Windows OSs, plus two Macs running Virtual PC.
Started with Novell 4.11 and was horrified to discover there was nothing available for training. Upgraded to the full Netware 6 Small Business Suite in February. Am looking forward to training for this so I can finally fully support my own network. The certs will be nice, but only because they force me to study the material. I really just want to say good-bye to my much-respected but highly-paid consultant.
I, too, am a diehard Novell fan and wish there was more available, more interested folks out there, less Microsoft mania. I've got apps in my suite I've never even run, due to complete lack of know-how.
Thanks for your post, D. Let me know if anything pops up in the training field.
I hope Novell makes its comeback, too. | |
| dheinsdorf 2002-08-07, 1:06 pm |
| You might be interested in this (actually I know you are, looks like just what you need)... goto Here: http://www.novell.com/education/pep...r.html#smallbiz then select small business PEP/ATT.
Theres the word BOOTCAMP all over the place!
Heres the popup
Branch Office / Small Business Engineer
Course Name: Novell Small Business Suite 6 Boot Camp
Course Description:This 2 day Boot Camp provides comprehensive instruction on Novell Small Business Suite 6. During the course students will install and configure a complete small business system which includes NetWare 6, iFolder, iPrint, Native File Access, email using GroupWise from both a GroupWise client and from a web browser, distributing an application and taking a workstation image using ZENworks for Desktops, and setting up the LAN for fast, secure Internet access using BorderManager. Course objectives include:
Installing Novell Small Business Suite 6
Configuration using NEAT
Establishing an Internet connection using NICE
Installing GroupWise 6
Configuring a LAN based GroupWise client
Web based GroupWise access
File access using iFolder
Native File Access from "native" Windows and Linux clients
Web based printing using iPrint
Installing ZENworks for Desktops 3.2
Distributing an application
Taking an image of a workstation
Installing BorderManager 3.6
Setting up the LAN for fast access using proxy cache
Securing the LAN against intruders
Recommended prerequisites: NetWare 5 or NetWare 6 CNE or equivalent experience
Duration: 2 Days | |
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| ...just go ahead and knock my socks off, would you?
Will check out the link the minute I'm done with this. Thanks for the link! Really appreciate it. |
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