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Originally posted by richardwhit
What kind of server do I have? LOL, its home made and not exactly what you'd call "server class"

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Then it "doesnt exactly" meet the 5.1 minimum spec #1:
System Requirements:
1- A server class PC with a Pentium II or higher processor. It will work, but remember that this is the best NOS outside of NW6 so if you arent gonna make your bones with this then, well anyhow it will work. but you getting the big picture here is important. NetWare wants SCSI, they give us IDE support as a nicety.

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I was kinda thinking/dreading it might be a HW compatibility problem but, as we are just talking about standard drivers and basic equipment here, its not like I'm trying to install the latest RAID card or anything, I was hoping there would be away around it.

I've managed to find a small patch that contains an updated IDEATA.HAM but I've not had time to try it out yet.

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You dont need any patches at this point. You have a misconfiguration in your BIOS or IDE channels. Who is the Primary and Secondary masters? You shouldnt have any slaves at this point. And 1FO @ IRQ E tells me you got a secondary channel issue. You should have your CD as secondary master at this point and of course HD as primary master - if you dont, fix that first. Make sure you dont have a crappy secondary IDE cable - and I hope you knew this CD and Motherboard was functionally previously?

Make sure you have files and buffers set to 30 each in config.sys. Are you booting to CD and letting it install DRDos7? No matter - FDisk the 50meg Dos partition and bump it up to 75-100meg just so you make sure you got that 35meg free space plus allow for service pack space. Screw booting to CD for DRDos and load up MSDos6.22. Make sure you kill himem, emm386, smartdrive etcetera. Goto www.bootdisk.com and get the IDEtoCD installer to get generic Atapi CD support. You should have nothing but low-loaded CD drivers and files/buffers=30 in you auto and config accordingly. Get C: and D: functioning and stripped clean as I noted first then Install from D: After the install gets ripping you may have to go either way when it asks you to load the NetWare CD support or stick with your Dos driver - so that may mean a reinstall to get past that, just make sure you deltree all the Novell stuff and dont wimp out.

Your A+ so you should be smoking on all this hardware stuff anyways - right?

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As an aside, this problem may be a one off, but it does make me wonder sometimes why ppl whinge about MS stuff all the time, I've NEVER had this kind of problem with ANY MS OS or product, including Win2K server which I've installed on my "server" with no problems at all - Yet NW5.1 seems to have difficulty with a boggo IDE interface!

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If you havent had this kind of trouble with MS stuff, well THIS problem is simple and solveable and its usually like I said IDE versus SCSI and #1 of the minimum spec. I dont doubt you havent seen IDE problems from any MS product - but who cares - if were talking servers were talkin SCSI so its a null point. If W2KServer installs and runs fine on IDE - whoopie, thats great. In general if you've really not had overall MS trouble, you just havent had enough MS yet.

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The same IDEATA.HAM driver caused me problems at work too, since it was causing the server clock to lose between 25 and 30 minutes a day (Yes I know it sounds weird but its a known issue honestly) and that was on a decent Compaq ML350 - so much for Novell's rock solid reliability.

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If your running IDE on a server at work, then you shouldnt be speaking a word about reliability because your not mirroring - and if you are its not SCSI and is highly against Novell recommendations. And the ML350 isnt decent as far as servers go No SCSI No Server as far as NetWare goes.
Maybe its just that your not really technically inclined enough to be wrenching on Novell - and I dont say NetWare cause I at the minimum include NDS also. If your offset by this little stuff it only gets magnitudes more difficult - I mean its only the Network Magazine 2002 NOS and Directory Services best products of the year. Just because its the best doesnt make it easiest.
If your pissed now with problems, try merging networks and trees, makes you not pick on the easy stuff.

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(Have I wound up enough ppl yet? )

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Naw, I can take it if you can

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Originally posted by richardwhit
LOL, thanks for the advice.
My CD-ROM is installed as a secondary master.
The hardware itself works fine, I've been using it for ages.

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Man, you could have slammed me hard because 1F0/irq=E is the primary channel.

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I don't use "crappy" cables cos I'm not that much of a mug

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It happens though, cables come apart after years of home test lab use, just checking.

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I only have a low loaded CD driver in my config.sys since I've removed any reference to EMM386.EXE or HIMEM.SYS. And I've stripped my CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT as much as possible to make sure nothings interferring.

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People gotta know that if they do a boot to CD install, its gonna give them the correct files and buffers. If they use MSDos they gotta put that in by hand.

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Novell may only give us IDE support as a "favour" as you put it, (although I don't agree with your sentiment here) but as with everything else its a "standard" and if they ain't gonna support it properly (Not that I'm saying they don't) then thats their responsibility - not mine.

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Well put, the favor thing isnt realistic. There at least "was" instances that SCSI in a NetWare box would have been a fat waste of money. We used to have 386sx25's with 16meg and IDE running as 3.x routers running broadband radio nics to link our lans. The point is this, if your serving files IDE sucks and I have also done enough medium usage IDE servers to know that they run real slow. And there really isnt that much trouble getting NetWare onto IDE and running for years trouble free.

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We're running IDE on a server at work because we have an IDE CD-ROM drive. Thats the way the ML-350 comes, nice SCSI RAID array but with an IDE CD-ROM drive.

I'm not sure what you're on about when it comes to saying we're not mirroring. Even if we were only using an IDE interface, its still possible to set up RAID 1 as long as you use the right kit.

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My bad, I was gonna look up the 350 specs but was pressed for time. Hence I have now. Were a Dell shop. Why the 350 doesnt use an onboard SCSI channel for CD and possibly Tape drive is a little strange.

Anyhow heres a pretty and recent TID on the IDE RAID thing:
http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/s...i?/10022685.htm

I can see if disk space is of importance that SCSI RAID1 would be magnitudes more than IDE RAID1 - sorage size versus cost. But thats the only major pro I see.

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In any case my home installation is all working now, after several more hours of work and the installation of a new NIC (after the installation decided it didn't like my NIC either....and yes its was on the compatibility list)

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Your lucky it didnt dislike your video card and just kick you out of the GUI.
[/B]

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To be honest with you I am impressed by the stability and reliability of my NW server at work. Hence my decision to learn more about it. My rant was just me blowing off steam after spending ages trying to sort out my problems at home, see my final comment and .

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Ranting is good. And I dont give a hoot what anyone really thinks about me. I just like to tear into it a little bit sometimes. You took a little bite at NetWare so I just wanted to see where you were coming from. You came in here pinging about a problem and didnt give any real data about your system - so it seemed you were trying to load 5.1 on god knows what, had trouble, and blamed Novell.

For me to be honest with you, I have SOOOO damn many problems with 5.1 that I spend almost all my time reading/printing tids, trying to fix crap with zero budget for support incidents and hitting various associated forums. Loosing sleep, coming in after hours. Its endless. 6 years now non stop. And that doesnt mention over 1000 workstations. Heres a couple jpegs of my trees and servers (hope they come out right).

[IMG]H:\SDHeinsdorf\SnagIt32\s
ervers.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]H:\SDHeinsdorf\SnagIt32\t
rees.jpg[/IMG]

Hey, I would rather have a little scrapping going on in here about issues than the dead silence with the occasional "congratulations", which is great but not the only useful thing here.

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I appreciate why Novell has (and to a lesser extent MS has) a limited compatiblity list as this clearly will have a positive impact on reliability .....but it doesn't alter the fact that I can't prat about with my NW server at work and I sure as hell can't afford a "server class" computer just to install NW at home...so when u come to install the damn thing at home you have trouble

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A half dozen of my servers are just a full tower, upgraded PSupply (400W),Intel SE440BX2 Mobo with PIII500,384-512meg, Intel Server NIC (pro100+,pro100+intelligent),2
940UW, and 2 Seagate 6gigs mirrored, plus SCSI DAT and CD. That isnt much system at all - aside from the $$ Nic and SCSI its pretty much less than most old home PC's. Whats cool about Netware, just this weekend on some 4.11 and 5.1 boxes, I slapped in newer motherboards with faster CPUs and more ram, tweaked Startup.ncf and they came right back up, totally perfect. Try that with MS. All in all Server Class isnt needed to learn at home, just may require some wrenching.
[/b]

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As for saying that I'm not technically inclined enough to use NW, well firstly I hope you don;t have this "positive attitude" with the students at your college and you may want to avoid comments like this in a forum for ppl who are trying to learn - we're supposed to be helping each other after all.

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I said "Maybe". Hey you provided little data to help solve your problem - implying that maybe you didnt know how or what data to provide - which is fundamental to solving problems, and that is the issue. So you wanted to vent - fine and absolutely acceptable. You wanted help with a problem - well I dont think there is any mind readers around here. You provide a failure scenario and were thin when it came to halping others to help you. Everyone is always learning, unless thier dead. I know plenty of people who just dont,wont,cant and for projections sake never will be able to apply what they have learned in the fashion required by this career undertaking. Its not easy and it gets harder. 20% of the people end up doing 80% of the work. I just want to help people to help themselves, that means putting your mind into gear and constantly rising to and exceeding your level of incompetance. If someone justs wants to whine and not come across the table regarding focused effort - then I will be the first to say "if you want to work on servers and directories, then act like it and make it happen". If not then I dont want to work with them.

You seem like a nice person and its not for me to say you cant do this job and much more, thats for you - but saying what I said still sticks - but I understand you were frustrated.

I dont interact with the students at my K-8 school district. I dont teach. I am responsible for the clients,servers,networks, and apps. I kill myself to keep my Novell shop running. I will be a CNE in a few months and I certainly am the kind of employee that I want to work with and learn from. This and so many Novell forums are growing thin. Novell is a scary place to put all your eggs these days. I dont want to have a CNA/CNE job making user accounts all day - I am the [Root] Admin and I cracked heads to get to this point. And thats exactly the kind of people I am talking to. Whomever wants that interaction can take it and others can ignore it. Some people need it to grow. Havent you ever had a tough instructor? Some people get a little hurt and others grow from it.

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Originally posted by richardwhit
Nice, glad we got ourselves sorted here, I'm new to this forum and although I was having a bit of fun ranting about Novell I didn't want to really offend anyone.

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Originally posted by richardwhit
Good on you then!

Its encouraging to see someone with "premier" qualifications like the MCSE and CNE who just works at it themselves like me!

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Originally posted by richardwhit
LOL don't worry I don't think you're preaching or on a soap box, the reason I've continued replying to your threads is that I am interested in what you have to say and you do have something to say, which is sincere, and much better than reading the marketing hype of what a CNA is and does etc. from the Novell site. so keep rambling m8

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Originally posted by richardwhit
Yeah, you cover everything too??

Sounds a bit like my job, but fortunately for me (with my limited knowledge ) I have much less technology to handle, but I do everything from maintaining the charities website to designing and implemeting their DR plan to purchasing new PC's to helping people who can't format their Word document properly. I am the IT department essentially - and thats literally, I'm not trying to say noone else does anything!

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Well, we have so much gear not because we have money but because we dont. Its that previous Al Gore Internet thing - the big tech influx right before the dot com crash. Based on the number of free lunches our kids get (lots of Hispanic migrant field workers).

It an equality of education thing - the poor kids essentially are supposed have the same opporitunity as the rich kids - and we and several other school districts sued the state of Arizona - public education should be equal. And now the poor kids grades are becoming equal to some of the most wealthy public schools. I know what your doing basically. Education is cool cause its not about profit, its about overclocking little kids core chipsets. Generally its not about money and we have less to play with. Theres more work and the people that dont like that dont hang around. Ya end up with a pretty dedicated staff. Man, the teachers make total crap salaries, work insanely long days.
Anyhow educational careers have a lot of soul behind them. I want more money and less stress, but I feel genuinely fortunate, like I have a purpose. You get plenty of that too I am sure.

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I was damn lucky to get this job basically. They were just embarking on a project to upgrade the IT infrastructure and bring in a leased line, exchange server, Citrix servers etc. to get connectivity and centralized email management for all the remote sites, when I started. (Which is something else I'm overseeing now, I have to make recommendations about software etc. I know very little about )

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Well I have to say for 25 you seem to have a good maturity level - I thought you were older - which is why I freaked when you were pinging on Novell. When I was 25 I probably would have caused a major stink and had to quit the forum. Your doing good. 25 and you keep your cool (the martial arts really keep you centered and level headed), You mention leased lines,Exchange,Citrix plus political needs and user interaction - that with growth planning/expansion/execution, its a really well rounded spot you've got for your age. That is lucky. One of my 40 year old coworkers says "we rise to our level of incompetence". So if we perform, and our superiors do thier job at recognizing our potential, then we are constantly tasked to encompass the current needs and grow upward from there. Dont cause too big of any kind of stink, be politically correct. Basicically emulate your elders. I think some of the best things you can have in your 20's is patience and looking at the correctness of the big picture. This is my 2nd job in my 15 working years (i'm 35). I would have still been where I was if I hadnt sweated the little things. No that you are but it sounds like you got a great job and back at 25 it seemed to me that the grass was greener elsewhere.

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At the moment I'm just trying to get the NW environment up to scratch - I will be implementing NDPS next month (admittedly with a little help from an outside company) and I've just begun rolling out login scripts for the various departments - you'll no doubt appreciate what fun this is when you do it retrospectively and all the network based applications have to be re-configured to reflect the new standardized drive mappings. The server was set up about 12 months before I started - when they didn't have a dedicated IT staff and everything was contracted out.

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NDPS is the way to go. I get your drift on the above issues. First off I would suggest you spend as much time as possible in NWAdmin32. Keep it open on your desktop at all times - and just because, go into the NWAdmin32 help file and get to know it well. Most products - like NDPS that get installed along with the NetWare NOS core modify and thus expand the NDS schema - adding objects/properties/values to the basis of NDS. Along with the NDS mods, the NWAdmin32 gets snap-ins to manage these additions. That includes additional help file material.

Well if you didnt know that, its a must know thing. For 99% of NW5.1 work forget about consoleOne and Management Portal. I assume you are the [Root] Admin? Best tip I can give is get 100% fluent on NWAdmin32 and be damn careful and aware of everything you do in it - a couple wrong clicks and you may need to update your resume, no joke.

Farming out the work for now is good, and stuff I once farmed out 3 years ago is totally simple now, so youll get that if you work at it.

For instance NDPS may seem ominous - the 5.x Admin or Adv. Admin student book (I cant recall and theyre at work) has an NDPS section. Basically 20 minites and your done with a basic NDPS setup, people are logging in and whammo instant printers. Its soo damn easy (and you'll see that one day).

I know where your at. Login script and drive mappings - they will fit into place and become something you dont even think about.

I assume you dont have ZenWorks installed? Probably (someone better have plenty of spare time to argue otherwise with me) the most important thing Novell has to team up with NetWare is ZenWorks. And insane is that you can install the 2.x starter pak and I think you only lose RemoteControl,HelpDesk, and Inventory capability. But for free you get total control of the important stuff. Total central management.

We own but dont even run Zen3.x. Zen2.x just does so much (and is easier to start off with) that we havent justified upgrading.

We have 1200+ workstations and 5000+ accounts hitting those workstations. Hundreds of applications requireing custom drive mappings. Yet (and I can post these) the login scripts are totally stripped down. A few drive mappings.

Old ZenWorks2 man. Totally controls everything. Theres no other way I could cover so many users and hardware by myself.
And the reason I point you at the old Zen2 is simplicity to start off with. It looks like they have moved the Zen2 stuff off the web site but i'll have a look tomorrow for the starter pak.

Well theres too much to talk about so I will get back later this weekend.

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Originally posted by richardwhit
You checked out my jujitsu site eh??

I'm the purple belt And the one who's completely upside down on one of the pictures - scary throw that!!

You mentioned some Wing Chun sites? Do you practice this? I did it for about four months alongside Jujistu, its really weird to get used to, but I like the fact its not diluted like so many modern styles are. (I spent the first two months standing in a corner not moving, just working through half of the first form! )

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Yeah, nice site. I like the bit of Flash you have on it. The 8th grade kids are starting to work wit the Macromedia stuff.
I started off in Wing Tsun then a month later (at about 23) got into a car wreck that almost killed me. I finally hooked up with an MD that fixed me real well with acupuncture and he knew I was wanting to get sporty again (but I was still torn up pretty well), he was into this very traditional TaiChiChuan (taijiquan) school and it did me a world of good. Like the Wing Tsun, we did nothing but the 33move form for a whole year. Taiji is a very long term thing and if you get someone who isnt Chinese certified its pretty useless. In the second year we finally got into the martial apps and in the 3rd year more hardcore combat. I got bored and started checking out the other 2 soft styles, Xingyiquan and Baguazhang. Anyhow I hooked up with this guy doing Jeet Kune Do (lots of freestyle stuff) and was pretty hooked. I moved and cant find any local Wing Chun. Sucks. Anyhow the martial stuff really relaxes me to chill out on the job. I sparred a few with this JuJitsu guy and his son - I just wanted to stay the heck away from them!

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I recently moved to a different city - now near Manchester - which has a fairly large China town so I may start this up again - its slightly less high-impact than Jujitsu!! (My body is falling to pieces and I'm only 25!)

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Did u say something about great weather!! Er you are talking about England!? Its been about 10 degrees at the best all week and todays the first time I've seen any sun for a week too. England's "green and pleasant" cos it rains....all the time. Mind you I do live "up-North" so thats probably why!!

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My wife and I watch lots of movies - every time we see England we want to go there - something about it. Of course mostly we are probably seeing southern summers, but theres some kinda allure. Rennaisiance classics or modern stuff like Snatch or Trainspotting. We just want to pick up and hit a different country.

We live in a 100+ degree desert. Seems like you all have a different kind of ancient embedded history there. The grass is greener there or something?

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Originally posted by richardwhit
Wow, weird discussion for an IT forum.

LOL, you talk about us having history and culture in the UK, its surreal sometimes when you really look at - the Queen has just been carted through London in a 250 year old horse drawn carriage covered in gold . Can you imagine that in Washington?

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Originally posted by richardwhit
Dheinsdorf, don't be sorry you started it m8, its been fun

"Imagine asking for a free haircut" LOL, yeah. I suppose its a bit like being a doctor, as soon as you mention you work in IT, someone always has a problem with their PC that needs sorting!!

I've been playing about with NWAdmin a bit at work and at home, but I've been too busy with other stuff - sorting out printers and trying to sort out problems with people's PC's - to do a lot over the last few days and today I'm off to Greece for two weeks - Hurrah (Yes my CNA book is making the trip with me - Hmmm is this heading towards obsession?)

Ozzy at the Queen's jubilee - yeah, that whole music event was arranged by a loony woman at the BBC, it turned out alright in the end though - in fact it turned out really well (I don't know how much of it you saw) - but I think inviting Ozzy could be described as a "career-defining decision".

Oh yeah, yesterday, after I insisted we get a cabling check done ('cos the old installation was blatantly ropey - we had one hub cascaded of a port of another and the whole thing was off a 10Mbps co-ax backbone and no patch panels anywhere), I found out that our whole office needs recabling - my boss will be pleased.

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