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Home > Archive > CCNA > September 2005 > Dumping vs Hard Work
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Dumping vs Hard Work
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| BroadcastStorm 2005-08-03, 2:40 pm |
| I studied my rocks off on Lammle's 4th edition ccna book along with Odom's INTRO and ICND books, and I still failed the ICND time after time. There were tons of questions regarding WAN troubleshooting that I never saw in any book whatsoever.
I finally did a tad bit of dumping and passed ICND. Im not proud of dumping. Just saw it as neccessary, and I know of thousands of others who do the same.
note: I passed INTRO and all my other certs on my own with no dumping. They were easy. CCNP is next. | |
| darthfeces 2005-08-03, 4:28 pm |
| the side effect will be gaps in your knowledge.
many people do things which are wrong (morally criminally whatever) and get away
with it.
if you EVER want to be a ccie they (it)
will have to be filled eventually.
this is an age-old debate.
would you go to the doctor who graduated last in his class ? and cheated ?
who knows .... you might have. | |
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| sorry to hear you made that choice. Maybe more hands-on would have helped you get over that hump? | |
| BroadcastStorm 2005-08-04, 3:28 pm |
| I'd like to know if you guys passed the latest ccna. Its changed in difficulty. Im assuming you guys passed your ccna's close to 2-3 years ago, in which case youre gonna have to renew it if it didnt expire already. The CCNA of years ago was a piece of cake. I know guys that took it and passed after one reading of the sybex book. I looked at dumps from the old ccna and I laughed at the easiness of the questions. Questions like "what is spanning tree protocol" and "what port is FTP" are a joke. Cisco knows that dumps are out there, and thats why they made the test much harder. Even harder than what the cisco press books provide in knowledge. | |
| jdog0254 2005-08-04, 4:50 pm |
| I think it's funny how everyone talks crap about using braindumps like it makes your certification any less valuable. You still have to know what you are testing over for any certification exam. I think people that knock braindumps and say that they DONT use them are trying to make themselves sound smarter, and are full of it. I just started studying for my CCSP and am expected to get it by DECEMBER for my job, so you better believe that I am going to use braindumps.
(no offense, this is just my opinion) | |
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| For the record, I don't dump on dumps to appear smarter. It has nothing to do with that. it is a question of integrity. It is a personal choice. I made mine long ago. I'd rather fail a cert than pass by cheating. Period. It's that simple  | |
| zxmjkxz 2005-08-05, 4:50 am |
| I think that dumps are the harder way to go if anything.. Because you forget everythign within a short period of time..
I tried looking at those flash card things not knowing what I was doing and it was impossible for me to study from them because it was all memorization in stead of understanding and retaining... I guess it differs for everyone | |
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| that's an interesting perspective | |
| davidbec 2005-08-10, 8:14 am |
| Where did you all get CCNA braindumps from.
With the level of difficulty of this exam I am very willing to use brain dumps.
As far as I am concerned cheating is when you take notes into the exam room, or someone tells you the answers to the exact questions you are going to be asked.
D | |
| JimmyD 2005-08-10, 12:06 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by davidbec
...or someone tells you the answers to the exact questions you are going to be asked.
D
That is what braindumps are. People get paid to exactly remember some questions from the test. After enough people have done this, they have a large number of real questions in the database. | |
| davidbec 2005-08-10, 2:00 pm |
| No one knows what questions are going to be asked on a particular day to a particular person when they do the exam. All they can say is what they were asked. But they do not know what that person will be asked, and so it is not cheating.
I would also be quite alarmed if the person selling/giving away the braindump was giving the exact question and the exact answer to exam hopefuls. I would assume that they change some of the numbers and wording.
But then again, they don't know that you will get that question, so I still don't really consider it cheating.
Cheating suggest you have prior knowledge of the exam, which braindumps really can't give. | |
| smrkdown 2005-08-10, 3:14 pm |
| Train of thought...
If you can't pass without cheating, you don't deserve the certification.
Braindumps are cheating.
You used braindumps.
You cheated.
You don't deserve the certification. | |
| JimmyD 2005-08-10, 6:11 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by davidbec
...and so it is not cheating.
...I would assume...
...so I still don't really consider it cheating.
That was a poor attempt at rationalization. You are in denial. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by davidbec
But then again, they don't know that you will get that question, so I still don't really consider it cheating.
Cheating suggest you have prior knowledge of the exam, which braindumps really can't give.
Are you high? Or are you just trying to justify it for yourself? The bottom line is that there is no way in hell that using a braindump cannot be considered cheating, since that is exactly what that is. So the question is not there. The question remains: are you ready to study enough to pass a test without compromising your integrity. That's the question, and it's for all of us to answer it individually. | |
| forbesl 2005-08-11, 8:10 am |
| This is all very interesting.
Yet you all constantly rationalize why you continue to regularly post (and moderate in some cases) at this site which blatantly supports brain-dumps.
Looks like davidbec is not the only one who is in denial.
Webmaster is laughing at you guys all the way to the bank. | |
| freak 2005-08-11, 11:45 am |
| Your point is well taken. This is not my site, and I don't make the rules here. All I can do is post about what I think is right for students and the industry alike. If you think that this is wrong, or that I am "used" in the process, it's OK, I can live with that. If I got one person to reconsider using braindumps via my 10000 posts, then it was worth it to me. | |
| Bregan 2005-08-22, 9:50 am |
| I have two opinions on this matter. Recently I aquired an extensive braindump for the CCNA, and also some for the CCEA. The CCNA was over 750 questions, while the CCEA's were minimal 90-150 questions for each test.
While "studying" the CCNA braindump, I came to the realization, that I am learning just as well from this than with the book. Sure, I may get away with a few questions about the OSI model, or some of the short ones that I will easily recognize the answer on. I've been doing networking for sometime and have extensive experience with Pix Firewalls, routers and switches. However, I have not delved into VLANS too much, nor have I been exposed to some of the larger layer 3 cisco switches.
The majority of the CCNA is about Subnetting, simulations, and diagrams asking you to point out errors and what not. Of the 750 questions, at least half of are of this type. I promise you, it is impossible for someone to memorize that many questions, with answers like 172.153.32.23/16, or 11111111.11111111.11000000.00000000. You would be better off reading the book for a month. No doubth, this braindump helped me prepare fo the exam, but in no way has it kept me from learning the material.
Now, on the other hand, the CCEA braindumps are easily abused. Reading the exact quesions for those 6 exams could be done 3 days time. I could easily read the braindumps at night and pass two exams the following day.
I think there is a difference, it just depends on how you use the material.... but, using the CCNA as an argument against braindumps is just folly! The test is just too brutal for someone to pass it by memorizing questions. | |
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| Thanks for the post. I see your point, but I respectfully disagree with it, in that to me, it is not necessarily the actual advantage you gain from using one kind of dump as opposed to another one that is the issue. It is the lack of integrity associated with the process, and the fact that students are basically cheating - and cheating themselves. Regardless of whether you use the dumps as a source of info or as a memorization tool is irrelevant. You're still getting the official questions prior to sitting a test, and that cannot be described any other way than cheating imho. | |
| Bregan 2005-08-22, 10:05 am |
| I completely understand your point, and the others. It is no doubt cheating, and I am certainly not disagreeing with you... I am just stating that aquiring actual questions for the CCNA, and I'm sure there are well over 750 in the pool, will not in any way gaurantee a pass, or keep you from learning the theory! I'm not even sure this is a braindump.. if so, then someone got ahold of the actual questions electronically. The information is so broad, that it probably covers just about everything in the book itself. After printing it out, I went through almost a ream of paper, and that is printing duplex!. Cisco did a great job and keeping the paper CCNA's out of the system.. as in you will learn the information no matter what.... at least for this exam.
I am taking the test in 1.5 hours. While I used the book, and the dump, I did put in about 24 cumulative hours of study for this exam, and I have about 6 years of cisco experience. I am still feeling a bit nervous about the test, and I am usually a very good test taker! | |
| jdog0254 2005-08-24, 6:18 pm |
| i guess i am a cheater... SUE ME! | |
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| as long as you are not in denial about it  BTW, before you publicly announce that you use braindumps, I suggest taking your name out of your posts. It's not like you could be decertified or anything... oh wait, you could... | |
| jdog0254 2005-08-27, 12:49 pm |
| yeah ok... | |
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| Hey, it's your certs and your reputation. I was just trying to be of assistance... | |
| jdog0254 2005-08-28, 10:43 am |
| Ok, so let me get this straight. Using practice tests to help me prepare for an exam makes me a cheater. If this is all it takes to mess up "my reputation" then oh well. The truth is its really not that serious. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by jdog0254
Ok, so let me get this straight. Using practice tests to help me prepare for an exam makes me a cheater. If this is all it takes to mess up "my reputation" then oh well. The truth is its really not that serious.
You called yourself a cheater in a thread about braindumps. If you used braindumps, then yes you are a cheater - and yes, your certs can be taken away from you at any time.
If you used legitimate practice tests, then you are not a cheater - you are prepared
So, you tell us... which are you? | |
| BroadcastStorm 2005-08-30, 2:30 pm |
| Lets not go name (labeling) calling here. No one is a "cheater" unless they have cheated in their past, present and future and will continue to do nothing but "cheat". I fully respect everyone on this board.
The moderator spoke of "integrity". In this day and age of business, people will lie, cheat and steal to claw to the top. Many of my bretheren have witnessed executives in high 6 figure positions do just that. Everything from stabbing people in the back, to claiming responsibility for another subordinates hard efforts. Is he a "wrong doer"(label) for doing such and getting moved up in the office while his subordinate got the axe? By todays standards, the answer is no. He's just living in the 21st century and doing what every other person must do to get ahead in this cruel and competetive cold world. Lets get back to integrity. Is it wrong to steal from a neighborhood supermarket? Perhaps one doesnt have enough money to live like we all do, so they must steal just to survive. Are they testing the boundaries of integrity? Perhaps in one mans eyes, and in another mans eyes, perhaps not.
Certifications are not high school or college tests, where cheating on an exam can be considered a violation of integrity and can result in expulsion. They are simply certifications put out by corporations like cisco and microsoft, who blatantly allow brain dump sites like this one to exist. If a college or high school got word of a web site that put out answers to midterms, that site would be shut down immediately. Microsoft on the other hand, couldnt care less. The bottom line is, you cant go blaming a man for getting a little help to achieve a cert just so that he can get paid to move up in the world. To get a little deeper, getting the cert doesnt mean a thing. Its what you have in your head on the day of the technical interview that matters. And if youre not ready, then you wont get the job. And thats all that matters.
This is just my long winded opinion. | |
| smrkdown 2005-08-30, 5:23 pm |
| I'd have to say you're trying to polish a turd. Anyway you cut it, using braindumping is cheating, and cheating is wrong. It doesn't matter if it seems to be the norm or not. It's still wrong. If cheating is the norm, it doesn't make it okay, it just explains why there are so many idiots out there disgracing the titles associated with the certifications. Well, I'm starving so I'm going to go rob a bank now. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by smrkdown
I'd have to say you're trying to polish a turd. Anyway you cut it, using braindumping is cheating, and cheating is wrong. It doesn't matter if it seems to be the norm or not. It's still wrong. If cheating is the norm, it doesn't make it okay, it just explains why there are so many idiots out there disgracing the titles associated with the certifications. Well, I'm starving so I'm going to go rob a bank now.
This post was absolutely priceless  | |
| johnaspen 2005-08-30, 10:35 pm |
| Polishing a turd indeed....
On a more positive note, I think we should re-iterate from previous threads that taking the CCNA as a whole instead of breaking it into the INTRO and ICND tests is the prefered method. If you look at the INTRO as "easy" and the ICND as "hard" (no arguement here right?), then this is how it lays out: take the CCNA 640-801 combined test and you get 50% easy questions, and 50% hard questions. Or, you take INTRO and get 100% easy, then take ICND and get 100% hard. Think about your odds there for a second. The reason people take the tests separately is it's generally easier to study a smaller range of material rather than do it all at once. But in the case of CCNA, much of the material crosses over between the two anyway. Plus, you have better odds taking a test that mixes "easy" questions with "hard" questions.
The original poster may have never had to worry about the controversial topic, if he would have heard what I consider to be the truth about taking the 2 test road. | |
| BroadcastStorm 2005-09-01, 1:53 pm |
| quote:
I'd have to say you're trying to polish a turd. Anyway you cut it, using braindumping is cheating, and cheating is wrong. It doesn't matter if it seems to be the norm or not. It's still wrong. If cheating is the norm, it doesn't make it okay, it just explains why there are so many idiots out there disgracing the titles associated with the certifications. Well, I'm starving so I'm going to go rob a bank now.
Once again, I just want to reiterate that I respect all the gentlmen on this board.
I suppose you never did anything "wrong" in your life? Like you never "cheated"? Im sure youre all just a bunch of angels arent you? Let he who never sinned cast the first stone...Ever drive with your seatbelt off? Thats not only a violation of integrity with your state dept of motor vehicles, but thats also a violation of federal law..Anyway, yeah right. I'll make you a deal. The day Microsoft steps up to the plate and tosses out all the brain dump sites, I'll stop dumping. Oh wait, they'd have to toss THIS SITE too. Oh well.....And for the bank robbing mention, Im sure if you were in Louisiana right now you'd rather starve than loot right? MmmmHmmm.
quote:
The original poster may have never had to worry about the controversial topic, if he would have heard what I consider to be the truth about taking the 2 test road.
FYI, I failed the CCNA twice. And just as my assumption never fails, you made me out a truth teller from my second post. You see, Cisco made the CCNA 801 much harder by implementing a NAT simulator that is not in the cisco press or lammle books. If you cant get by the sim, you cant pass the exam. But you guys who i assume took the exam years ago, never had to worry about the increased difficulty in the test questions or the nat simulator, since that is a new inception.
Meanwhile, the moderator is talking about how he'd almost rather go bankrupt than to take a peep at a brain dump. Well, I failed the ccna twice and intro a couple of times, and ICND a couple of times as well. Seems that Im out a few hundred bucks for making an honest effort. I'd rather dump anyday than lose a few hundred more.
And thanks to all for the colorful remarks. Peace. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by BroadcastStorm FYI, I failed the CCNA twice.
Sorry to hear that...
quote:
If you cant get by the sim, you cant pass the exam. But you guys who i assume took the exam years ago, never had to worry about the increased difficulty in the test questions or the nat simulator, since that is a new inception.
Newsflash: some of us did have a fair amount of hands on to go with the formal instruction before we took the test
quote:
Meanwhile, the moderator is talking about how he'd almost rather go bankrupt than to take a peep at a brain dump.
I am not sure where you got this from, but the bottom line is that I do prefer failing a test, than cheating to pass it. It's a personal preference.
quote:
Well, I failed the ccna twice and intro a couple of times, and ICND a couple of times as well. Seems that Im out a few hundred bucks for making an honest effort. I'd rather dump anyday than lose a few hundred more.
How about studying *smarter* instead of cheating? How about identifying the exact issues you have with the test, and studying/spend time in the lab to turn those weaknesses into strengths? | |
| smrkdown 2005-09-01, 2:54 pm |
| I've done things I shouldn't. Then my morals and values kick in, and I undo what I did, or I just don't do it again. Well, I studied my XXX off for the CCNA (640-801) and passed the first time with a high score... They made it harder for a reason. To counteract the effects of braindumping (idiots passing the exam), and to raise the standards of Cisco certs. This means that if you have to cheat to get the cert, then you don't deserve to have it. Period. Thank you, have a nice day. | |
| BroadcastStorm 2005-09-01, 2:57 pm |
| quote:
I've done things I shouldn't.
Admission of guilt. Nuff said. Welcome to the club. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by smrkdown
if you have to cheat to get the cert, then you don't deserve to have it. Period. Thank you, have a nice day.
hee hee, another perfect post | |
| BroadcastStorm 2005-09-01, 3:13 pm |
| quote:
... They made it harder for a reason. To counteract the effects of braindumping (idiots passing the exam),
FYI my scores werent at "idiot level". Ive scored in the low 800's time after time for both INTRO and ICND. That means Ive only been off by less than about 4 questions, or just the sim. And most people that post at dump sites claim the same problem. To me, dumps are just help to get you over that stupid hump of a question or 2 so you can get the meaningless cert. Like I said before, you guys put way too mnuch stock into certs. Its all about your experience and know how when you talk to your boss. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by BroadcastStorm
Like I said before, you guys put way too mnuch stock into certs. Its all about your experience and know how when you talk to your boss.
While I agree with that statement to a certain degree, it is unrelated to the topic at hand.
Please understand this: I am not trying to make you look bad, or to be rude to you. What I am trying to do is make sure that newbies reading this and other fora understand that it's possible to say no to dumps, as it were, and to still be successful.
Many people use what I refer to as "commercial brain dumps" without somehow ever realizing that it simply equates to cheating. I don't understand how, but that's the way it is. Others get in the industry, look at getting certs, come to this type of site, and if they don't hear that dumps are the wrong way to go about obtaining certs, will probably never give it another thought.
I suppose that some baseball players think that using steroids - which is basically cheating - is OK, while others see that it is wrong and prefer not touching the stuff. The same applies to cert takers and dumps.
You have your opinion, and it is evident that we won't change it. We have ours, and it's pretty clear that we won't change it either. But we may be able to reach those who do not yet have an opinion and show to them what we consider dumps to really be: not a legitimate training aid, but a method to cheat.
To each their own, and to each to make the decision of where they draw the line when it comes to integrity. | |
| smrkdown 2005-09-01, 7:59 pm |
| I'll agree that experience and a formal education are the key. But certifications help, especially in specialized, vendor-specific areas such as Cisco and the like. I can't wait to have all the knowledge of a CCNP and have that on my resume. Freak, you and I are fighting a losing battle. As others have mentioned, this board is a lost cause. It's a breeding ground for braindumping pinheads. I think our time would be more wisely invested in genetic engineering so that we can isolate the gene responsible for incompetence and expunge it in order to counteract the effects of this very website! | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by smrkdown
Freak, you and I are fighting a losing battle. As others have mentioned, this board is a lost cause. It's a breeding ground for braindumping pinheads. I think our time would be more wisely invested in genetic engineering so that we can isolate the gene responsible for incompetence and expunge it in order to counteract the effects of this very website!
Well, that's why I run a 100% braindump-free certification website To cater to those in the field who do not want to take shortcuts, and want to actually learn this stuff the right way. As for this site, it's not mine so I can only post in this kind of threads and moderate the forum where I am a mod and hope that the techs who visit will "see the light" as it were | |
| hscott63 2005-09-04, 5:22 pm |
| My opinion on the subject is even if one question from a braindump helps someone it is definitely cheating by my standard. I'm studying for my CCNA the right way with Cisco Press and Sybex books while getting up to speed on my first networking job which doesn't pays very good in Lousiana without a BS degree. So hard work pays off in the long run and cheating leads to a short career. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by hscott63
My opinion on the subject is even if one question from a braindump helps someone it is definitely cheating by my standard.
Could not agree more. Thanks for the post. |
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