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Please Help -> 3640 Problems...
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| bob4432 2004-09-01, 7:31 pm |
| i acquired a 3600 and 2600 series router at a estate sale and wanted to mess around with them and possibly take some ccna courses. i figured this would be the place to go to get some info.
there are a couple of cards in the 3600 series one, they are labeled as follows:
WIC 1DSU T1 (T1 DSU/CSU)
WIC 1B U (ISDN BRI U)
Serial 4A/S (Serial 0 - 3)
there is also a ethernet 0 and 1 along with another port that is labeled AUI.
i built a rollover cable out of cat5e cable (~5' long) and used a rj45->db9 connector to plug it into my serial port.
i have hyperterminal set as 9600 8n1 with no flow control.
when connected to hyperterminal i see all the info as the router boots and then it gets stuck in this loop:
*Mar 1 00:03:49.435 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:03:54.435 GMT: %AAAA-3-DROPACCT: accounting record dropped: system-st
art
*Mar 1 00:04:52.423 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:06:04.427 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:07:16.459 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:08:28.491 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:09:40.523 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:11:22.587 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:13:04.651 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:14:46.683 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:16:28.747 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:22:10.939 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
for over 45 minutes.
i have been told to hit ctrl and break, but that does not do anything. how can i get into the router?
thank in advance for your time/expertise with this matter. | |
| Mat P 2004-09-01, 11:30 pm |
| Hello again.
Re your qustions in the general forum -
No problem with removing the modules - make sure you power it off first though.
Don't worry about the OS, you could be using a dumb terminal for this for all the Cisco knows.
It may be worth pasting the full bootup output here for us, if the above doesn't work. | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 12:05 am |
| i pulled out the modules but had no luck, it still sticks. here is the full bootup output:
System Bootstrap, Version 11.1(19)AA, EARLY DEPLOYMENT RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1998 by cisco Systems, Inc.
C3600 processor with 32768 Kbytes of main memory
Main memory is configured to 64 bit mode with parity disabled
program load complete, entry point: 0x80008000, size: 0x52d364
Self decompressing the image : ##############################
###################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
################## [OK]
Restricted Rights Legend
Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is
subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph
(c) of the Commercial Computer Software - Restricted
Rights clause at FAR sec. 52.227-19 and subparagraph
(c) (1) (ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer
Software clause at DFARS sec. 252.227-7013.
cisco Systems, Inc.
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, California 95134-1706
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
Image text-base: 0x60008918, data-base: 0x6099E000
cisco 3640 (R4700) processor (revision 0x00) with 24576K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID 11247108
R4700 processor, Implementation 33, Revision 1.0
Bridging software.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
Basic Rate ISDN software, Version 1.1.
2 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
1 Serial network interface(s)
4 Low-speed serial(sync/async) network interface(s)
1 ISDN Basic Rate interface(s)
DRAM configuration is 64 bits wide with parity disabled.
125K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)
8192K bytes of processor board PCMCIA Slot1 flash (Read/Write)
Press RETURN to get started!
Passed
00:00:17: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial0/0, changed state to down
00:00:17: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state to up
00:00:17: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state to up
00:00:17: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/0, changed state to down
00:00:17: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/1, changed state to down
00:00:17: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/2, changed state to down
00:00:17: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/3, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:17.627 GMT:
Note: A random Spanning Tree Bridge Identifier address of 0000.0c51.44dc
has been chosen for Bridge Group 1 since there is no mac address
associated with the selected interface.
*Mar 1 00:00:17.627 GMT:
Ensure that this address is unique.
*Mar 1 00:00:17.987 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
0/0.1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.343 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
0/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.343 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:18.343 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.343 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.343 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.343 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/2, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.347 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/3, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.803 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface DLSw P
ort0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:18.803 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface BRI0/0
:1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.803 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface BRI0/0
:2, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:19.331 GMT: %SYS-5-CONFIG_I: Configured from memory by console
*Mar 1 00:00:19.339 GMT: %SYS-5-RESTART: System restarted --
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
*Mar 1 00:00:19.695 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface BRI0/0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:19.831 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state t
o up
*Mar 1 00:00:20.011 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state
to administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:20.303 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial1/2, changed state to
administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:20.351 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial1/3, changed state to
administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:20.403 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Async129, changed state to u
p
*Mar 1 00:00:20.831 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:21.403 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Async1
29, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:59.427 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
*Mar 1 00:02:45.423 GMT: %ISDN-6-LAYER2DOWN: Layer 2 for Interface BR0/0, TEI 2
55 changed to down
it will just keep trying the last line. i have had it up for over 45 minutes and it just keeps trying it about every 5 minutes or so.
any help would be grealy appreciated.
thanks  | |
|
| This output still has the modules in??
Everything looks ok, your interfaces are down because you have nothing plugged into them.
But why is nothing happening when you hit return?? Have you tried breaking into ROMMON when the router reboots, using the procedure on the doc I posted earlier?
If you can't break into ROMMON, It could be that your home made cable is faulty, any chance you can buzz it out? | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 1:45 am |
| i did everything i could find on those links, thanks.
i took the modules out but got the same response so i put them back in.
there is a possibility that the cable i made is faulty, but i have looked at it many times to make sure it is 12345678 and 87654321 on each end. my cable tester shows all are reversed and it is definately not a straight through or crossover cable.
i will be getting a real cisco crossover cable from a friend either over the weekend or next week. maybe i will just wait and see then.
am i correct that i have ios v 12.0.13?
when i hit break do i hold it down or just hit it once?
thanks again for the reply 
i went ahead and took out the wics, here is the info without them:
System Bootstrap, Version 11.1(19)AA, EARLY DEPLOYMENT RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1998 by cisco Systems, Inc.
C3600 processor with 32768 Kbytes of main memory
Main memory is configured to 64 bit mode with parity disabled
program load complete, entry point: 0x80008000, size: 0x52d364
Self decompressing the image : ##############################
###################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
################## [OK]
Restricted Rights Legend
Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is
subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph
(c) of the Commercial Computer Software - Restricted
Rights clause at FAR sec. 52.227-19 and subparagraph
(c) (1) (ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer
Software clause at DFARS sec. 252.227-7013.
cisco Systems, Inc.
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, California 95134-1706
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
Image text-base: 0x60008918, data-base: 0x6099E000
cisco 3640 (R4700) processor (revision 0x00) with 24576K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID 11247108
R4700 processor, Implementation 33, Revision 1.0
Bridging software.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
2 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
4 Low-speed serial(sync/async) network interface(s)
DRAM configuration is 64 bits wide with parity disabled.
125K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)
8192K bytes of processor board PCMCIA Slot1 flash (Read/Write)
isdn switch-type basic-ni
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface BRI0/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description ISDN Circuit Id. 19IBSA275846
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
bandwidth 64
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation ppp
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip route-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
dialer pool-member 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
dialer pool-member 2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn switch-type basic-ni
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn spid1 60233673101111 3367310
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn spid2 60233673111111 3367311
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn fast-rollover-delay 5
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ppp authentication chap
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ppp multilink
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial0/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Access Ckt ID 14YBGA116468.ACSO , US West
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
bandwidth 128
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation frame-relay
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
Translating "event"
logging event subif-link-status
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
logging event dlci-status-change
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
service-module t1 timeslots 1-2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial0/0.1 point-to-point
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Frame Ckt ID 14YBGA116468.ACSO,101,US WEST,Conc. Router AZPHXB101CN
^R01
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ip address 10.250.65.59 255.255.255.0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ip summary-address eigrp 81 10.136.38.128 255.255.255.128
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
frame-relay interface-dlci 101
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
snmp-server enable traps isdn isdnu-interface
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
Press RETURN to get started!
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state to up
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state to up
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/0, changed state to down
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/1, changed state to down
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/2, changed state to down
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/3, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:15.411 GMT:
Note: A random Spanning Tree Bridge Identifier address of 0000.0cf1.3c34
has been chosen for Bridge Group 1 since there is no mac address
associated with the selected interface.
*Mar 1 00:00:15.411 GMT:
Ensure that this address is unique.
*Mar 1 00:00:18.171 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:18.171 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/1, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:18.171 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.171 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.171 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/2, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.171 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/3, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.171 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface DLSw P
ort0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:20.067 GMT: %SYS-5-CONFIG_I: Configured from memory by console
*Mar 1 00:00:20.075 GMT: %SYS-5-RESTART: System restarted --
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
*Mar 1 00:00:20.647 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state
to administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:20.935 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial1/2, changed state to
administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:20.975 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial1/3, changed state to
administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:21.027 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Async129, changed state to u
p
*Mar 1 00:00:21.079 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:21.647 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:22.027 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Async1
29, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:22.091 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state t
o up
but again nothing. | |
|
| I just keep hitting ctrl-break for the first 30 few seconds or so of boot-up, there probably is a right time to do it but this seems to work.
It appears that for some reason keys you are entering aren't getting sent to the console.
You mentioned you had 2 routers, are both doing the same?? If so I'm guessing it's either your cable or hyperterminal cable. | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 12:46 pm |
| a buddy of mine has the other one, he is the guy i am going to get the real rollover cable from. when i see him, maybe i will get the other router from him too and see if i can get into with my cable. | |
| ZacDogg 2004-09-02, 1:31 pm |
| What you are seeing is the output from what the router is already configured to do. It is just console output.
What you are seeing when the modules are removed is the router reading its startup-config and erroring because it hasn't detected the interfaces for which the config is referring to.
Do this...leave the modules out and turn on the router. Once it has booted and is sitting there idle hit enter to get the > prompt (hopefully there is no password set). Then type in "erase star" (without the parenthesis). Then power off the router, re-install the modules and you will have a blank config when you turn the router back on.
Zac | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 1:40 pm |
| thanks for the reply, but the problem is i can never get a > prompt it just loops the last line over and over. if my cable was inccorrect, could i see the info but not be able to type and the router get the info? i currently only have a cable that i build from specs of a "rollover" cable. | |
| ZacDogg 2004-09-02, 2:00 pm |
| If you're seeing output your cable is fine. You're going to need to get into ROMMON then.
Open up hyperterm the same way, except with baud rate at 1200. Reload router and hold in space bar for 20 seconds (this simulates the break sequence). Close hyperterm and open with standard 9600 baud 8-n-1-n. The router will now be in ROMMON. Type in "confreg 0x2142" enter (anything that has parenthesis, don't enter them). Type in "reset" enter. The router will now boot up bypassing its startup-config. Enter "n" at the first question. Type "enable" enter. Type "conf t" enter. Type "config-register 0x2102" enter. Type "exit" enter. Type "copy run star" enter (This will create a blank startup-config). Turn of router, install modules and turn 'er back on for a router with a blank config.
Now it's up to you to figure out what to do with it.
Was that step-by-step or what?
Zac | |
| stnosc 2004-09-02, 2:03 pm |
| Are you also removing your serial A/S module? If not, remove that module also and then power up the router and see what happens. | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 2:24 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ZacDogg
If you're seeing output your cable is fine. You're going to need to get into ROMMON then.
Open up hyperterm the same way, except with baud rate at 1200. Reload router and hold in space bar for 20 seconds (this simulates the break sequence). Close hyperterm and open with standard 9600 baud 8-n-1-n. The router will now be in ROMMON. Type in "confreg 0x2142" enter (anything that has parenthesis, don't enter them). Type in "reset" enter. The router will now boot up bypassing its startup-config. Enter "n" at the first question. Type "enable" enter. Type "conf t" enter. Type "config-register 0x2102" enter. Type "exit" enter. Type "copy run star" enter (This will create a blank startup-config). Turn of router, install modules and turn 'er back on for a router with a blank config.
Now it's up to you to figure out what to do with it.
Was that step-by-step or what?
Zac
i did this but still get the same problem. here is the output when i log back in @ 9600:
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state to up
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state to up
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/0, changed state to down
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/1, changed state to down
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/2, changed state to down
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Serial1/3, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:15.407 GMT:
Note: A random Spanning Tree Bridge Identifier address of 0000.0cf0.3c30
has been chosen for Bridge Group 1 since there is no mac address
associated with the selected interface.
*Mar 1 00:00:15.407 GMT:
Ensure that this address is unique.
*Mar 1 00:00:18.291 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:18.291 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/1, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:18.291 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.291 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.291 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/2, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.291 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Serial
1/3, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:18.291 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface DLSw P
ort0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:20.067 GMT: %SYS-5-CONFIG_I: Configured from memory by console
*Mar 1 00:00:20.075 GMT: %SYS-5-RESTART: System restarted --
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
*Mar 1 00:00:20.647 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state
to administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:20.935 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial1/2, changed state to
administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:20.975 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Serial1/3, changed state to
administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:21.027 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Async129, changed state to u
p
*Mar 1 00:00:21.079 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:21.647 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:22.027 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Async1
29, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:22.091 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state t
o up
and again it just sticks there.... this may be a dumb question, but is there a jumper on the board to erase stuff, like a cmos jumber on a computer motherboard? | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 2:31 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by stnosc
Are you also removing your serial A/S module? If not, remove that module also and then power up the router and see what happens.
same thing, it just stick there, here is the output:
System Bootstrap, Version 11.1(19)AA, EARLY DEPLOYMENT RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1998 by cisco Systems, Inc.
C3600 processor with 32768 Kbytes of main memory
Main memory is configured to 64 bit mode with parity disabled
program load complete, entry point: 0x80008000, size: 0x52d364
Self decompressing the image : ##############################
###################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
################## [OK]
Restricted Rights Legend
Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is
subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph
(c) of the Commercial Computer Software - Restricted
Rights clause at FAR sec. 52.227-19 and subparagraph
(c) (1) (ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer
Software clause at DFARS sec. 252.227-7013.
cisco Systems, Inc.
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, California 95134-1706
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
Image text-base: 0x60008918, data-base: 0x6099E000
cisco 3640 (R4700) processor (revision 0x00) with 24576K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID 11247108
R4700 processor, Implementation 33, Revision 1.0
Bridging software.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
2 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface(s)
DRAM configuration is 64 bits wide with parity disabled.
125K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)
8192K bytes of processor board PCMCIA Slot1 flash (Read/Write)
isdn switch-type basic-ni
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface BRI0/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description ISDN Circuit Id. 19IBSA275846
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
bandwidth 64
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation ppp
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip route-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
dialer pool-member 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
dialer pool-member 2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn switch-type basic-ni
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn spid1 60233673101111 3367310
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn spid2 60233673111111 3367311
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn fast-rollover-delay 5
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ppp authentication chap
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ppp multilink
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial0/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Access Ckt ID 14YBGA116468.ACSO , US West
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
bandwidth 128
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation frame-relay
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
Translating "event"
logging event subif-link-status
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
logging event dlci-status-change
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
service-module t1 timeslots 1-2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial0/0.1 point-to-point
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Frame Ckt ID 14YBGA116468.ACSO,101,US WEST,Conc. Router AZPHXB101CN
^R01
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ip address 10.250.65.59 255.255.255.0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ip summary-address eigrp 81 10.136.38.128 255.255.255.128
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
frame-relay interface-dlci 101
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description ATM ID SAZD5506
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation sdlc
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no keepalive
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
clockrate 9600
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc role primary
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc vmac 4088.26fe.1000
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc poll-pause-timer 400
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc T1 500
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc address 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc xid 01 55592080
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc partner 4e00.6e55.5000 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc dlsw 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description ATM ID SAZD0007
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation sdlc
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no keepalive
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
clockrate 9600
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc role primary
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc vmac 4088.26fe.1100
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc poll-pause-timer 400
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc T1 500
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc address 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc xid 01 55592081
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc partner 4e00.6e55.5000 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc dlsw 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
shutdown
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/3
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
shutdown
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
snmp-server enable traps isdn isdnu-interface
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
Press RETURN to get started!
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state to up
00:00:14: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:15.111 GMT:
Note: A random Spanning Tree Bridge Identifier address of 0000.0c98.3b08
has been chosen for Bridge Group 1 since there is no mac address
associated with the selected interface.
*Mar 1 00:00:15.111 GMT:
Ensure that this address is unique.
*Mar 1 00:00:17.511 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:17.511 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/1, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:17.511 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface DLSw P
ort0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:21.859 GMT: %LINK-5-CHANGED: Interface Ethernet0/1, changed state
to administratively down
*Mar 1 00:00:22.871 GMT: %SYS-5-CONFIG_I: Configured from memory by console
*Mar 1 00:00:22.875 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/1, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:22.879 GMT: %SYS-5-RESTART: System restarted --
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
*Mar 1 00:00:23.787 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Async129, changed state to u
p
*Mar 1 00:00:23.879 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Ethern
et0/0, changed state to down
*Mar 1 00:00:24.787 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Async1
29, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:24.891 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Ethernet0/0, changed state t
o up
can i take out the eth0, eth1 wic also? thanks for the assistance peeps. is there anything i could be overlooking? in the hyperterminal settings? | |
| stnosc 2004-09-02, 2:39 pm |
| Turn off the router and remove every single WIC, card, and module that you are able to remove.
Then turn the router back on. | |
| ZacDogg 2004-09-02, 2:50 pm |
| Try making a new cable. It seems that you can only receive and not transmit.
Zac | |
| stnosc 2004-09-02, 3:05 pm |
| That's a good option. It does lead to that conclusion, doesn't it? | |
|
| Sounds familiar  | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 4:57 pm |
| new cable, it tested the exact same way on my tester and i still get the same response from the router. i took out all the wics and memory cards but it still just hangs, here is the output:
System Bootstrap, Version 11.1(19)AA, EARLY DEPLOYMENT RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1998 by cisco Systems, Inc.
C3600 processor with 32768 Kbytes of main memory
Main memory is configured to 64 bit mode with parity disabled
program load complete, entry point: 0x80008000, size: 0x52d364
Self decompressing the image : ##############################
###################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
##############################
##############################
####################
################## [OK]
Restricted Rights Legend
Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is
subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph
(c) of the Commercial Computer Software - Restricted
Rights clause at FAR sec. 52.227-19 and subparagraph
(c) (1) (ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer
Software clause at DFARS sec. 252.227-7013.
cisco Systems, Inc.
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, California 95134-1706
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
Image text-base: 0x60008918, data-base: 0x6099E000
cisco 3640 (R4700) processor (revision 0x00) with 24576K/8192K bytes of memory.
Processor board ID 11247108
R4700 processor, Implementation 33, Revision 1.0
Bridging software.
X.25 software, Version 3.0.0.
DRAM configuration is 64 bits wide with parity disabled.
125K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read/Write)
isdn switch-type basic-ni
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface BRI0/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description ISDN Circuit Id. 19IBSA275846
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
bandwidth 64
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation ppp
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip route-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
dialer pool-member 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
dialer pool-member 2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn switch-type basic-ni
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn spid1 60233673101111 3367310
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn spid2 60233673111111 3367311
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
isdn fast-rollover-delay 5
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ppp authentication chap
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ppp multilink
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Ethernet0/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Model Bank Server SMN ID SD0031 , PU ID CD0031
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ip address 10.136.38.129 255.255.255.192
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
bridge-group 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial0/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Access Ckt ID 14YBGA116468.ACSO , US West
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
bandwidth 128
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation frame-relay
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
Translating "event"
logging event subif-link-status
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
logging event dlci-status-change
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
service-module t1 timeslots 1-2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial0/0.1 point-to-point
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Frame Ckt ID 14YBGA116468.ACSO,101,US WEST,Conc. Router AZPHXB101CN
^R01
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ip address 10.250.65.59 255.255.255.0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
ip summary-address eigrp 81 10.136.38.128 255.255.255.128
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
frame-relay interface-dlci 101
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Ethernet0/1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description Model Bank Server SMN ID SD0031 , PU ID CD0031
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
shutdown
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/0
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description ATM ID SAZD5506
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation sdlc
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no keepalive
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
clockrate 9600
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc role primary
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc vmac 4088.26fe.1000
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc poll-pause-timer 400
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc T1 500
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc address 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc xid 01 55592080
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc partner 4e00.6e55.5000 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc dlsw 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
description ATM ID SAZD0007
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
encapsulation sdlc
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip mroute-cache
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no keepalive
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
clockrate 9600
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc role primary
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc vmac 4088.26fe.1100
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc poll-pause-timer 400
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc T1 500
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc address 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc xid 01 55592081
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc partner 4e00.6e55.5000 01
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
sdlc dlsw 1
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/2
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
shutdown
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
interface Serial1/3
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
no ip address
% Incomplete command.
no ip directed-broadcast
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
shutdown
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
snmp-server enable traps isdn isdnu-interface
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.
Press RETURN to get started!
00:00:03: %LINK-4-NOMAC: A random default MAC address of 0000.0c83.7108 has
been chosen. Ensure that this address is unique, or specify MAC
addresses for commands (such as 'novell routing') that allow the
use of this address as a default.
*Mar 1 00:00:08.183 GMT:
Note: A random Spanning Tree Bridge Identifier address of 0000.0c71.1ff8
has been chosen for Bridge Group 1 since there is no mac address
associated with the selected interface.
*Mar 1 00:00:08.183 GMT:
Ensure that this address is unique.
*Mar 1 00:00:11.887 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface DLSw P
ort0, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:00:16.751 GMT: %SYS-5-CONFIG_I: Configured from memory by console
*Mar 1 00:00:16.751 GMT: %SYS-5-RESTART: System restarted --
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 3600 Software (C3640-IS-M), Version 12.0(13), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2000 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 05-Sep-00 23:30 by linda
*Mar 1 00:00:17.715 GMT: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface Async129, changed state to u
p
*Mar 1 00:00:18.715 GMT: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface Async1
29, changed state to up
*Mar 1 00:03:51.783 GMT: %AAAA-3-DROPACCT: accounting record dropped: system-st
art
how long should this take to startup before i could type into? i let it start for over 5-10minutes. could of the last person to program it made it so you can't access it from the console port? | |
|
| As soon as it says "Press RETURN to get started" your good to go.
I think you will have to wait till you get the other router off your mate at the weekend, at least then you will be able to confirm there isn't a problem with your PC or cable. | |
| bob4432 2004-09-02, 5:17 pm |
| i have tried in on a xp pro machine and also a 2000pro machine. when it says "hit enter to continue" i hit return but nothing happens and then it just runs through its config. like you said, i will wait till this weekend to get the other cable / router from my buddy to see if it is my cable or what.
thanks for all the help, i will let you all know how it goes. | |
|
| I've got one other idea from looking at your output, though it may be completely off the mark!!
One faile dcommand is -
ip summary-address eigrp 81 10.136.38.128 255.255.255.128
Your sending a summary address (or at least would have done if your frame relay had come up). It's possible that this summary address is summarising your ethernet (if you don't understand don't worry) Put an ip address in your PC of 10.136.28.200 and connect to your routers ethernetport (try all), make sure you get a link light.
Try pinging 10.136.28.129, hopefully they will have used the first available address. If it works telnet to that address, next problem is password, typical beginner ones are "cisco", "sanjose", "sanfran" - try all of these. If you get this far and can't guess te password you need to follow password recovery procedure, for this you need a working console..
If the ping didn't work you could try pinging all addresses from 10.136.28.129 to 254, or download a ping sweep program from the web.
Of course this could all be a complete waste of time, but looking at your outputs its plausible..... | |
| bob4432 2004-09-03, 4:04 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Mat P
I've got one other idea from looking at your output, though it may be completely off the mark!!
One faile dcommand is -
ip summary-address eigrp 81 10.136.38.128 255.255.255.128
Your sending a summary address (or at least would have done if your frame relay had come up). It's possible that this summary address is summarising your ethernet (if you don't understand don't worry) Put an ip address in your PC of 10.136.28.200 and connect to your routers ethernetport (try all), make sure you get a link light.
Try pinging 10.136.28.129, hopefully they will have used the first available address. If it works telnet to that address, next problem is password, typical beginner ones are "cisco", "sanjose", "sanfran" - try all of these. If you get this far and can't guess te password you need to follow password recovery procedure, for this you need a working console..
If the ping didn't work you could try pinging all addresses from 10.136.28.129 to 254, or download a ping sweep program from the web.
Of course this could all be a complete waste of time, but looking at your outputs its plausible.....
what do i put the subnet mask and gateway to? i am assuming the subnet to 255.255.255.128 but could be wrong. just kicks i put that in along with the gateway as 10.136.28.1 but received no link light on either the router(either port) or the nic in the computer. 
i may be sick but i am enjoying the challenge and really appreciate the help i hae received here, thanks | |
|
| lol.
Your right with the mask.
We don't know what the gateway is, but that doesn't matter as the address we are hoping to find will be in the same subnet - this will become more apparent as you study.
As for the link light, you'll need an ethernet crossover cable - I'm guessing you are using a straight cable (1-1...8-8). You'll find the pinouts online if you don't know them. Alternatively you could use straights with a hub/switch in the middle.
As for being sick, I must have the same illness.... | |
| bob4432 2004-09-03, 4:14 pm |
| thanks for the reply, i can definately make a crossover cable. i will give it a try tonight when i get home from work and let you know how it goes.
thanks agan for the assistance | |
| bob4432 2004-09-07, 1:03 am |
| i used the crossover cable but no luck, although a connection is made
but, i may have found the problem. i took the rj45->db9 adapter i have apart and found that only 3 wires are connected and 5 are not. the adapter also says "675 console adapter" which i believe it to be from my cisco 675 dsl router...
i am assuming that i need the 8 wires connected in a normal rj45->db9 adapter... | |
|
| The pinouts do look different, compare the following 2 links-
http://makeashorterlink.com/?B24E15A39
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J17E31A39
You should try making this cable up, rather that using the rollover, it may work.
It looks like you may have cracked it!
I may be away for the next week or so as I'm off shift in 20 mins, and it's my last ever shift, my next contract is going to be much busier.....I'll try ang check back. | |
|
|
| bob4432 2004-09-13, 2:30 am |
| i finally got the real cisco blue flat rollover cable, and what do you know, it worked
i did this:
The router will now be in ROMMON. Type in "confreg 0x2142" enter (anything that has parenthesis, don't enter them). Type in "reset" enter. The router will now boot up bypassing its startup-config. Enter "n" at the first question. Type "enable" enter. Type "conf t" enter. Type "config-register 0x2102" enter. Type "exit" enter. Type "copy run star" enter (This will create a blank startup-config). Turn of router, install modules and turn 'er back on for a router with a blank config.
and now i am doing research to find out how to get it to work on the inside of my lan. the fun begins
thanks again for all the help |
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