CCNA - Which direction should I go?

Author

Which direction should I go?

popdevil

2004-05-25, 8:25 am

As always I've been doing a little thinking. I'm always thinking about the best path to take when it comes to certifications. I try and lean towards certifications that will help me in the marketplace and also go with what I enjoy. Here is my dilemma.

I passed my CCNA and was planning on taking the BSCI. I am about half way through the book and got side tracked thinking about the Security+ exam. I studied for the Security+ exam not too long ago. I have a practice test program that sends you auto-updates and now I have the latest practice questions. I took the practice test and scored pretty well for not studying it for a while. I remembered about 90% of the material. I wonder if I should take a month off from studying for the BSCI and study for the Security+ exam so I'll have the Microsoft/Cisco and Security+ on my resume.

Any helpful suggestions would be great.

I’m going to post this in the Security+ forum as well to see what thoughts I get there as well.

Goldorak

2004-05-25, 11:11 am

What do you enjoy doing?

popdevil

2004-05-25, 11:20 am

quote:
What do you enjoy doing?

I enjoy both the CCNP and Security+ type of work. Both go hand in hand really. I plan on doing both but any help or suggestions on which one to do first is what I'm really looking for.

Goldorak

2004-05-25, 12:46 pm

My suggestion to you is do CCNP first, then sec+ will be like a walk in the parc.

Have fun

smrkdown

2004-05-25, 1:21 pm

Security+ and CCNP have no real correlation in my opinion. I think the CCNP would provide the greatest advancement in your career if you are planning to pursue a career in networking. If you're going to go into the security field, the Security+ is a base level certification that proves that you know some concepts, terminology, acronyms, etc. I think it might be a good starter certification but I'd have my eye on the ISC^2 for security.

Then again, if you think the Security+ would be a quick pass, I'd study a bit and take it and tac that onto my resume.

popdevil

2004-05-25, 1:42 pm

quote:
Security+ and CCNP have no real correlation in my opinion.

Hummm...I feel it does. Not too many times does a person ONLY do this or ONLY do that. Most of the time people do a little of this and that. (oh boy that may only make sense to me).

quote:
If you're going to go into the security field, the Security+ is a base level certification that proves that you know some concepts, terminology, acronyms, etc. I think it might be a good starter certification

Maybe its just me but I've seen a trend where more and more companies are looking for the MCSE/CCNA/SEC+ person. Seems they want you to also know about security now. I'm also smart enough to understand that not most people hire a newbie to run one of the most important part of their business, the ROUTING of their NETWORK. ...then again could just be me.

quote:
Then again, if you think the Security+ would be a quick pass, I'd study a bit and take it and tac that onto my resume.

I've never been one to get a CERT just because. I always try and get the ones that mean something. Even though its a quick pass I wouldn't if it meant nothing.

smrkdown

2004-05-25, 2:12 pm

I'm not sure you understand what a correlation is. Though you may use both skills on the job, the two certifications have no direct correlation.

Also, I would hardly consider any CCNP to be a "newbie" who couldn't be trusted with ROUTING responsibilities. Nor would any professional company.

Also, if you want a cert that "means something" look elsewhere than Security+. If you aspire to be able to spout off acronyms in an effort to sound meaningful rather than configure something, that's your prergative.

Add-on: This is just my humble opinion so no offence to anyone. I don't mind meaningless certs like some of the ones I currently have or plan on having in the future.

Goldorak

2004-05-25, 2:27 pm

Yes, smrkdown is right. Do CCNAP. N+ is not gonna be of real interest to you. I would have thought that with an MCSE you have good security basics, i mean really good basics. Security is security, and if you know windows security principals, unix security is no brain teaser. Firewall and stuff: you know what a TCP port is. You know 2 networks can't talk unless there is some kind of layer 3 device connecting them...
With and MCSE and a CCNA, sec+ is not gonna give you anything.
If you want to do security, by all mean do it. Study for a week and do it. (if it takes you more than that something is wrong)
I would much prefer to hire someone with just mcse and ccna than someone who has A+, N+, Sever+, Sec+, Project+, Disco+, Shoe+...

popdevil

2004-05-25, 2:33 pm

quote:
I'm not sure you understand what a correlation is. Though you may use both skills on the job, the two certifications have no direct correlation.

I understand the difference. Networking and networking security do have some common ground.

quote:
I would hardly consider any CCNP to be a "newbie"

...as would I. I meant that about a CCNA.

quote:
Also, if you want a cert that "means something" look elsewhere than Security+. If you aspire to be able to spout off acronyms in an effort to sound meaningful rather than configure something, that's your prergative.

I said I "DON'T" take an exam to just have it. I feel companies are looking for that now. I feel Security+ and a CCNA are about the same in the eyes of employers. They look at both and think NEWBIE.

Don't get me wrong, when I got my CCNA I felt GREAT, I felt like I did something that other people have tried over and over again and still fell short. I just believe that companies don't see or give it the same high praise as I do.

popdevil

2004-05-25, 2:38 pm

quote:
I would much prefer to hire someone with just mcse and ccna than someone who has A+, N+, Sever+, Sec+, Project+, Disco+, Shoe+...

I AGREE about just having the PLUS exams. I'm talking about being well balanced.

....and no MCSE doesn't teach you about security in my opinion.

2lazybutsmart

2004-05-25, 3:13 pm

If you like security that much, throw the dice and take your chances with CCSP. I don't think you should go back to CompTIA exams when you're currently pursuing Cisco Proffesional Exams. It's like taking an MCSE and going back for Net+.

Best of Luck
2lbs.

popdevil

2004-05-25, 3:22 pm

Everyone keeps talking about the CERT VS CERT and not really about what employers are looking for. Will a person hiring prefer to have a person that just passed the CCNP and that is their only experience or have a person that is a CCNA and knows Microsoft and about Security with work experience?

I've gotten a lot of suggestions on things I haven't thought about which why I posted this message is. - thanks folks.

darthfeces

2004-05-25, 3:37 pm

what they want is usally a well rounded person capable of picking up on and learning
new techknologies

you do it for yourself .... not for what they want
for instance look at some job descriptions on a popular job site. 6 year exp with this 5 with that
all for a whopping 40-50 grand.

here's a recent posting

Network Engineer/Cisco Specialist

Global Data Consultants, an established professional consulting firm, is seeking a Network Engineer/Cisco Specialist to accentuate their service offerings to the local and regional client community. If you are a fast-paced, energetic individual who welcomes diverse environment, and embraces rapid opportunity advancement, your search is over, this is the position for you.

Responsibilities include design, development, enhancement, and maintenance of switch, router and firewall configurations, as well as hardware and software on LAN's, WAN's and PC's within peer-to-peer and server managed environments.

Candidate must be competent to perform design, configuration and troubleshooting of switches, routers, and firewalls, specifically for Cisco equipment. Knowledge and implementation of methodologies for network security is desirable. Windows 2000 server administration, active directory setup/maintenance in a complex environment is also required. This position requires a high-level technical analyst who is a self-starter and motivator. Analyze and advise management on hardware and software availability to upgrade or enhance service to the user community.

Required:

5+ years experience in the information technology field

CCNA, CCNP certifications

MCSE 2000 certification

Proficient understanding of LAN/WAN Technologies and Security

Strong background in design and implementation of networks, VPN, firewalls, routers, security tools, and anti-virus protection

Windows NT and/or 2000 administration

Preferred:

MS Exchange 5.5 and/or 2000 administration

Win 95/98/NT/2000/XP desktop setup/troubleshooting

Bachelor's or Associate's degree in Computer Science (or related field) preferred.

Non-Technical:

Excellent Customer Service Skills

Self-Business Savvy Motivator with Team Skills

Strong Communication Skills written and verbal

Additional details:

Length: Perm
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Travel: locally, some
Area code: 717
Zip code: 17201
Salary: Commensurate with experience
Other Compensation: Comprehensive Medical Benefits, Paid Vacations and Holidays

For immediate consideration, please forward your resume, availability, and salary requirements to jobs@gdcinc.net

Global Data Consultant is an Equal Opportunity Employer.

Goldorak

2004-05-25, 3:51 pm

quote:
....and no MCSE doesn't teach you about security in my opinion.

WHAT???
You must be talking about a different MCSE then!!!
- Share permission
- File permission
- Groups - Group policy
- IPsec...
- RAS Access control
Would you like me to go on?
Does all this not ring a bell? Yes - No? How did you get your MCSE?????????????

Look, you asked us a question and we all told you what we think. If you want to do N+ then i don't see where the problem is!!!
PS: I have not done N+ (not even studied for it but with a MCSA and a bit of all round experiance, it would not take that much to do it, so if i want to do it, NO BIG DEAL, i'll do it - period.

darthfeces

2004-05-25, 4:30 pm

microsoft ??? security ??? don't even call m$ a security cert.

file sharing ??
how about sharing your computer with the internet when you get a dcom virus ???

the cisco safe smr blueprint is an exellent outline for overall network security.
http://www.cisco.com/safe
SAFE: Extending the Security Blueprint to Small, Midsize, and Remote-User Networks

Goldorak

2004-05-25, 5:15 pm

quote:
microsoft ??? security ??? don't even call m$ a security cert.

OK, let's have a dig at MS. I for one have no time for MS, but i think we should get a couple of things straigt:
1 - No OS is secure by default. This is a fact.

Have a look at this... and perhaps CISCO thought that IOS was safe back a while ago.Ho, it is still not safe by default
2 - MS is more vulnerable than other os because 90% of desktops around the world have MS installed on them and 75% of home users have outlook.
Just think, if people had macs at home or where running linux and netscape, do you think their computer would be safe? No, not by default.
Also, MCSE is not security certification. I never said it was. But MCSE teaches you the basic concepts about security.
Finally, if you want my opinion, Security + is hardly gonna teach anyone with an MSCE and a CCNA anything.

cheers

darthfeces

2004-05-25, 5:52 pm

well said

i aggree with you.......

Sexy Lexy

2004-05-25, 6:20 pm

quote:
Originally posted by popdevil
Everyone keeps talking about the CERT VS CERT and not really about what employers are looking for. Will a person hiring prefer to have a person that just passed the CCNP and that is their only experience or have a person that is a CCNA and knows Microsoft and about Security with work experience?

I've gotten a lot of suggestions on things I haven't thought about which why I posted this message is. - thanks folks.

Sorry for the back handed answer here, preserve and you will see what I am trying to say.

Those looking for MCSE qualifications are generally looking for LAN administrators for server and desktop.

For WAN and communications then CCNA entry level and CCNP are generally seen as the requirement.

However, it depends upon the company and business needs. If you have applied for a position in a company that needs a network administrator then the chances are they read the industry press and know that the MCSE is a requirement without having too much experience.

Unless the network manager gets involved or some senior administrator then the certification is enough to warrant an interview, experience may vary because you have displayed the ability to learn and willingness to develop yourself if you do not have the respective experience.

Then you have the WAN scenario. Experience will be just as important as the certification if not paramount. Your ability to prove yourself in this area is essential compared to holding the certification with no experience.

And the ubiquitous catch 22 where they won't hire you for the position without experience but how are you going to get any unless anyone will employ you in a similar position?

Unless you have "contacts" or know someone then it's the well trodden path of starting at the bottom and working up, gain experience then get the certification to back up your knowledge then progress from there.

Sorry for the essay but that is the best way to describe the situation.

popdevil

2004-05-25, 8:04 pm

Very informational Lexy... Believe it or not I agree with everyone. (At least a bit of each person’s opinion).

I didn't think I would get this many replies, thanks! I'm glad I wrote the post because I was really 100% going to study for the Security+ exam but now I'm 50%. I think one reason I really thought about taking it was because the CCNA exam took a lot of study and hands on for me to pass it. I knew the Security+ was going to be a piece of pie. (I really thought employers are looking for it, thought it was the up and coming field). I thought it may also work well with a Cisco Security exam.

I love the Cisco field but to me it seems now days you can't just have a Cisco or MS background, you need to have your hands in a lot of different pots. I don't know if that is good or bad for the IT field.

I may be wrong in thinking the Security+ exam would be a good exam to have because I remember taking the MS Exchange 5.5 exam (blowing it out of the water) and NEVER getting to use the skills of learning it in the real world. I can hardly remember any of Exchange 5.5 stuff now. I guess it wouldn’t HURT to have the exam under my belt.

Thanks again for all the great replies!!!

2lazybutsmart

2004-05-26, 3:20 pm

quote:
Originally posted by popdevil
I knew the Security+ was going to be a piece of pie.

Not so fast there.... SEC+ is nowhere close to being categorized as "easy". And don't get me wrong; the objectives of the exam are easy but the exam has the world’s most cumbersome style of wording. And CompTIA has always excelled in that --Very hard, strange, incoherent wording for very easy exams.

At TechExams, we're about to dub SEC+ the CompTIA beast because we’ve yet to see a person pass it on the first try --save a very lucky few.

Enough said about the other part of your questions.... but SEC+ ain't no easy pie.

2lbs

mmgm76

2004-05-30, 8:17 pm

quote:
I love the Cisco field but to me it seems now days you can't just have a Cisco or MS background, you need to have your hands in a lot of different pots. I don't know if that is good or bad for the IT field.

I agree with Sexy Lexy's earlier recommendations, and I follow-that up with saying that this quote is key to the whole discussion. In today's "real" IT world, it is imperative that you have a broad background, but I see it moreso as experience-driven and not cert-driven. Broad expertise advertises the fact that you're competent enough to take projects previously unseen before, and tackle them as if you're simply upgrading an MS operating system. I've had about 5 jobs in my life, all in corporate America, and the 2 that were impressed with my certs turned out to be the two positions that ended up providing the least experience for me, and had the least direction.

Having spent all of my years in Operations/Help Desk/Network Admin, I was blessed to finally hop into Network Engineering full time with complete exposure to just about every tool Cisco sells on the market. Sad thing is, having had my CCNA and having passed easily, this cert didn't mean jack. There's nothing that compares to real-world experience backed by Certs that simply add credibility to your skills as a complement, not the end-all to landing the job that you desire. I think that the need to have broad experience is great for the IT community, as there's nothing more deadly for an IT person than to spend years becoming an expert in a particular subset of products, only to wake up 5 years later to find that the world has passed you by, and you're playing catch up if you can keep your existing position in your grasp. I think the need to excel and increase in learning is always a positive, and only serves to aid your I.T. career.

Cheers.

rmays

2004-05-31, 12:52 am

After reading all the advice and responses I think it comes down to one thing. Is he working to get a job or is he already in field and I don't mean Helpdesk or A+ tech (no disrespect) If he is trying to get in the field as a Jr Engineer, then take the sec+ and then go back and FINISH the CCNP and round it out with the CCSP. The reason it is good to get Sec+ now is like the earlier responder said there is a correlation between sec+ and networking especially in today’s environment and if you are a current engineer you should know that. The correlation is this, after 9/11 and with networks trying to harden themselves and hackers, viruses and everything else, the Sec+ will separate you and let a would be employer know that you understand network security. Although you do get that in the MCSE trust me it does not correlate when you are trying to get into the door. PEACE OUT

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