CCNA - Paper Cert's

Author

Paper Cert's

Rock642

2004-02-22, 2:10 am

You hear about the paper MCSE and that the MCSE is just a start to Admin/network job, and that having a MCSE sometimes doesn't help.
Would that hold true for a CCNA or CCNP?

I guess the real question is would a CCNP or CCNA on your resume hold alot more water than would someone with the MCSE?

s2kfan

2004-02-22, 4:57 am

It all depends on who is doing the hiring.

You don't need to have a cert to be an expert.
Just becuase you have a cert doesn't mean you know a thing.
There are high school drop outs making millions.
There are college grads working for minimum wage.
Some employers will take certs into consideration and some won't.

Either way, you'll have to prove yourself anyways.

Yankee

2004-02-22, 6:34 am

Many jobs especially those affiliated with the US govt often will require a certification. Other than that I agree with S2kfan.

Yankee

worrywarm

2004-02-22, 11:46 am

I just graduated from school with a MS degree, and had 5 years working experience. However, I'm jobless

Of course, my case is more complicated than your guys.

While hunting for a job, I feel like I need to do sth, and therefore I pick up CCNA. Though I don't think it would help me find a job...Certificate may be able to help you open a door of a company, but the rest totally depends on you!

Job hunting is a networking process and working involves much more than technical stuff. We all know it, but how ???

tbone654

2004-02-24, 11:48 am

Certs can help you, but don't necessarily help you. The MS and Cisco certs are really geared towards different things. The Cisco is for networking. By this I mean ISPs and large corps. that need the large router and switch support. MS is geared toward the system side of things, ie servers, desktops, etc.. Will studying for the CCNA help if you are already an MCSE help you? Sure. Is the CCNP worth more than the MCSE? Depends on where in the IT field you want to go.

Certs helped get me my current job. I work for a reseller and we get a discount on various products based on the number certified individuals for a particular vendor. I probably wouldn't have gotten the job without my certs, but they are not the only reason I have my job. You still must be able to perform. Other jobs don't require a cert, such as my previous job.

All a cert does is say that you have (or should have) a minimum amount of knowledge. Note "minimum" not "maximum". As stated previously, a cert doesn't mean you are an expert. It also says you are keeping up with the changes in technology.

The IT industry has fallen in line with the rest of the world. You now actually have to work. The people that have stayed in IT are those wanting to be in IT. You must have the desire to work in IT. You need to show professionalism in your job. Hard work and good people skills will get you farther than a cert, but these are axioms for any job. Don't minimize your efforts in being certified, but realize that the 10 yr. veteran with no cert probably knows alot more than you. Good luck.

Rock642

2004-02-25, 12:22 am

I'm looking at if you had
MCSE with 10 plus years of exp. (top of ladder).
CCIE with 10 plus years of exp. (top of ladder).
Bachelor of Science degree with 10 plus years of exp.

To me the CCIE would be the one who would possible make the more money and have the better chance of getting the job.

With out posting a resume or any I have time in the field (15yrs) and have worked with many different programs/projects with in CCTV, Electronic repair, and networks (From HF to radar communication.) My Cert's I'm thinking are just an added plus to the resume. But because I don't sit as a Schema Master for Active Directory or setup of Cisco 12000 Series router all the time what does the cert route do for you? My end goal is CCIE because the network configuration is the part I love, MCSE would be (I thought) a plus.

Because living in San Diego you have to make about 100k just to think about getting a home.

tbone654

2004-02-25, 10:34 am

15 yrs of field experience is a definite plus on anyone's resume. However, it still depends on what you want to do. Cisco is not the route to go if you want to work on servers, MS not the way to go for networking.

While 15 yrs field experience is a definite plus (I don't have that much), what you state in your post is not experience with routers or servers. I think it is unrealistic for you to think that getting a CCNP or MCSE with your field experience is going to get you a job making 6 figures. Just my 2 cents. 10-15 years experience with routers or servers and network design will get you that money (you may have to move).

The CCIE is a little different. To get that cert you actually have to prove your ability by passing the hands on lab. Very few can do this, which is why those guys command the big bucks. Keep in mind, there are guys with PhDs that can't pass the CCIE exam. If this is your goal, great, more power to you. Hopefully, I'll have mine in a year or so.

Your post seems to indicate you are wanting to make lots of money. Nothing wrong with that, most people do. With a few exceptions of wining the lottery or Dad owning the company, the people I know who are making lots of money are working their a** off for it. They work more than 40 hrs a week. Not saying you don't or aren't willing to work, but to get to CCIE level will take alot. Good luck.

steeda

2004-02-26, 12:03 am

Of the MCSE and CCNP, I think the CCNP is the harder to get by far. The MCSE can be had by any idiot with a b.ra1ndump URL, whereas the CCNP tests in my opinion aren't as forgiving to the "answer memorizer". They don't necessarily test much skill either, but they do cover enough info where someone would have had to read the material and done some real practice, and not just practice tests.

PS: I segmented the word b.rai1ndump in my post because this message board searches for strings like that and then makes hyperlinks out of the words SUPPORTING those types of sites! Lame!

s2kfan

2004-02-26, 3:07 am

One of the most important things aside from certs/no certs is your ability to sell yourself. It goes a LONG way.

tbone654

2004-02-26, 9:59 am

I agree s2kfan. You definitely need people skills. If you can't sell yourself and your skills, life is going to be alot tougher.

Rock642

2004-03-01, 12:39 am

tbone654, when you said
>>Your post seems to indicate you are >>wanting to make lots of money.

Just enough to keep my wife a stay at home mom and be able to retire before I'm 100.

And yes I do know about the people skills issue. As you look at my library of books you see everything from Cisco to MS to
Dale Carnegie and Zig Ziglar.

zEpS

2004-03-01, 2:07 am

Right around the world we are all feeling it
20 billion people studying it, getting certs and no job... even down here in aus.

the paper cert ppl have wrecked IT and i think have given IT a bad name.

can we go back to 4-5 years ago when it was rocking please eheh and when i was 19 starting out ehhehe...
IT was awesome then..

now the desktop market is fading....
support jobs will die, developer jobs will increase..
get in the real world... start developing..
start to know server stuff inside out
ms and linux.. not a crappy workstation OS that knowone cares about it..

thats i feel about it.
wish i studied CCNA first b4 my MCSE stuff aswell

the future is developing and netowrks
whhehehee

at the time of writing this message i was very tired and very pissed off, im sorry if it doesnt make sense..

byeeeee

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