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Home > Archive > i-NET+ > June 2001 > wrong or immoral??
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wrong or immoral??
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| techdaemon 2001-06-26, 1:13 pm |
| I've been doing this with different things for quite sometime now, but now it's just extended to some IT books. What I've been doing is reading a book, then after 2 or more weeks, I return it and get another book. I did it last night again. I had the Net+ exam cram, but since I already passed the exam, I went to Borders, said that my friend had given me the book and I didn't have the receipt, so I exchanged it for the i-Net+ exam cram. I mean I'm not cheap, but my ambition is getting a bit expensive, especially with the price of Comptia's exams.... So do you guys think I'm doing wrong? I mean it's not like I'm stealing.. It's kinda like going to the library, only that if I like the book enough, I keep it, because I already paid... I dunno, you tell me. | |
| nettech 2001-06-26, 1:31 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by techdaemon
...I went to Borders, said that my friend had given me the book and I didn't have the receipt, so I exchanged it for the i-Net+ exam cram.
Lying could be considered wrong  | |
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| If you feel the need to ask, then you probably already know the answer to your question... rationalizing it by building an analogy of using a library doesn't do much for me either... how about you simply go to the library and save yourself some lying? Or just pay for your books already... imho  | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by techdaemon
I've been doing this with different things for quite sometime now, but now it's just extended to some IT books. What I've been doing is reading a book, then after 2 or more weeks, I return it and get another book. I did it last night again. I had the Net+ exam cram, but since I already passed the exam, I went to Borders, said that my friend had given me the book and I didn't have the receipt, so I exchanged it for the i-Net+ exam cram. I mean I'm not cheap, but my ambition is getting a bit expensive, especially with the price of Comptia's exams.... So do you guys think I'm doing wrong? I mean it's not like I'm stealing.. It's kinda like going to the library, only that if I like the book enough, I keep it, because I already paid... I dunno, you tell me.
I understand your dilemma, as I know these books can get a bit expensive after a while. But it is still sort of unethical. Like freak said, if you are asking about it, you probably don't feel right about it, but I can see how it might be attractive considering the cost of books on top of books. But there are people who make their living this way, and you are sort of taking their income from them. Have you tried talking to your library about acquiring some of the books that you want? If they think that they will be checked out a lot or if they will provide some sort of public service, especially if it relates to education, they may be receptive to your queries. That way you would benefit the library and also reduce your own expense as well. Might be worth a try. Also, you might consider "book trading" with people who are looking for your used books, and people whose books you might need. You could save some cash that way as well. | |
| nettech 2001-06-27, 8:29 am |
| Perhaps if you are patient enough you could order books from online cheaper. As an example, amazon.com sometimes sells used book from previous buyers. Also bookpool.com has books 49% off. Theire examcram/prep package sold at $52US while it retailed @ $92US elsewhere. I understand your dilmea though but it could be considered abusing the system. | |
| techdaemon 2001-06-27, 11:28 pm |
| I see what you guys are saying, but it's not like I do it with every book, just with the last couple of ones... and I don't feel like I'm robbing anyone, because I did initially pay my $35 and the book I took back in perfect condition will be resold without a problem, so no one is really losing, maybe just the morality issue I guess, but hey in the day and age of napster and piracy, I don't see what I've done too wrong. I will keep my books from now on though, because it looks nice to have a collection of books and a reference point... it's just that certification books are kinda useless after you passed the test... maybe I should try to sell them. = ) but please don't think of me as a thief or anything now, just an honest question, because we all find a way to cheat the system from time to time and thats a fact. | |
| PCGuy 2001-06-28, 12:13 am |
| techdaemon,
I have found these forums very nonjudgemental. Don't worry that everybody is judging you. I just have two points to make on this topic.
The hard work that went into these books deserves to be rewarded. Even if the book gets sold again, you have gained knowledge from the author without rewarding him/her with their cut from the book sale.
If you think that education is expensive, try ignorance.
Best of luck to you in your future certs! | |
| nettech 2001-06-28, 9:39 am |
| I like this line.
quote:
Originally posted by PCGuy
If you think that education is expensive, try ignorance.
Best of luck to you in your future certs!
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| techdaemon 2001-06-28, 9:43 am |
| Maybe I'm just young and ignorant... but I guess I should change.. | |
| Cert Itch 2001-06-28, 11:24 am |
| I wouldn't sweat it. Instead I would buy
one or two choice books, collect as much
free stuff from the library & internet (including stuff from this Forum), buckle down & study, take the practice tests,
then sell the books U purchased or keep
them as reference.
In short, do want U gotta do & pray the
I-Net gods let U pass the test. :-).
PS, although one should B concerned about
the moral and ethical aspects of going
thru w/ it, in a crunch or pinch, your
idea could work 4 those who may need 2
consider going thru the trouble.
..."U know how U can tell a liar?...
When they tell U they don't lie" | |
| Supertech 2001-06-28, 5:28 pm |
| What if that was your paycheck... I'm sure the boss could rationalize why he shorted you on your pay.
Let's step up the topic to ethics. Do you think it is ethical? Do you know what ethics are? If you will do that for a book, Why not a CD? Why not some software? It's not hard to sneek into movies, hell, just lift the video. | |
| techdaemon 2001-06-28, 5:34 pm |
| Man, you guys need to chill out. Yes I have snuck into the movies once before, many years ago, yes I have ripped music, so what..
NO ONE is losing money from the particular book. I didn't shop lift, yes I did pay.. Maybe I shouldn't have read the book and returned it for another.. But please, let's not get too much into ethics about this, as if it were a crime, because it's not. I'm sure the multimillion or billion dollar corporations aren't missing a cent. NO, it is not stealing.. NO, I don't shoplift cd's.. I could've stole the book, but I didn't.. I think you're taking this a little extreme.. | |
| techdaemon 2001-06-28, 5:38 pm |
| I ask a simple opinion and I get flamed, as if everyone who has replied hasn't done or even considered something like that.. Maybe I should go jump in tub full of holly water or something now, because here it seems like a sin. | |
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| techdaemon,
I'm sorry if you have taken any of the comments personally, but you asked for opinions, and you got 'em. If you really didn't think that there was anything wrong with what you were doing, then why did you bring it up?
You started this thread asking "wrong or immoral?" and continued by asking "So do you guys think I'm doing wrong?", but when we didn't back up your opinion, you came back with "But please, let's not get too much into ethics about this, as if it were a crime, because it's not." Is it right to gain knowledge for free that somebody is offering for a fee? Is it moral to cheat the author out of his/her royalties?
"NO ONE is losing money from the particular book"? How about the bookstore that has to spend three times the money ringing up, returning, and rining up the book again? Not to mention stocking it to the shelf and then restocking? What do they do with the one that they ordered to replace the one that you purchased? In these times, overstock is frowned upon in the retail business. SOMEONE is losing money from the particular book.
"Maybe I should go jump in tub full of holly water or something now, because here it seems like a sin."? A sin? Probably not. Frowned upon? I certainly hope so.
You are going to do whatever you please, and I know that nothing written here is going to change your opinion. I just thought that I would give you the opinion of a former author and former retail manager that is currently in the IT field. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by techdaemon
I ask a simple opinion and I get flamed, as if everyone who has replied hasn't done or even considered something like that.. Maybe I should go jump in tub full of holly water or something now, because here it seems like a sin.
Well, if you didn't feel that it was wrong, why did you ask in the first place? Look at it this way. Suppose you wrote a program and put it on the market. I bought it, used it, then went and got a refund since I only needed it once (a disk partitioning utility, say). Then the store resold it to someone else. Fair? I mean you don't lose any royalties since it gets resold, right? I understand your dilemma -- I am certainly not rich either -- but if you thought it was ethical, why did you ask others' opinions on it? If you think something is OK, then you rarely ask for others' approval . . . | |
| techdaemon 2001-06-29, 8:42 am |
| Last replied mostly to this:
"Let's step up the topic to ethics. Do you think it is ethical? Do you know what ethics are? If you will do that for a book, Why not a CD? Why not some software? It's not hard to sneek into movies, hell, just lift the video."
And I mean come on, if you're gonna get into restocking and re-ringing fee's, why don't we talk about the ethics of sharing answers to exams.. and braindumps.. What about the poor people who make money off the tests.. How about the authors of those tests.. What about stuff like that.. now I'm not asking anyone to side with my opinion, I just thought people wouldn't be so uptight on the issue. I'm sure we could argue for days on end on ethics and morality, but when we take a simple thing like returning books, for another one after reading it, then turning it into something like lifting videos and restocking fees (ect..) it's a bit much. I'm sorry I ever brought it up, but come on, let's get real.. Even sharing an q&a of a certification exam, after you agreed not to, is going agains ethics and what not.. I just feel like I'm being attacked here.. | |
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| Well, then why did you ask our opinions about it? It's not that big of a deal, but if everybody did it, the author would not get any money from his/her book. And sharing questions from the exams is not approved of by this site, that is a violation of the NDA. But if you are just trying to convince us that it is not unethical, why did you ask our opinions in the first place? Remember some of the people who frequent this site are authors themselves . . . they should not be exepcted to agree with you on this. | |
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| My opinion of your topic is that you are at the wrong forum. You need to place that problem at the shrinksrus forum. This is about i-Net+ certifications not about stealing books from a bookstore. | |
| techdaemon 2001-06-29, 9:26 am |
| Ok, I agree, I'm tired of trying to defend myself and try to make myself feel better for doing wrong. I'm sorry to all you authors out there. I can see how the authors of music felt with napster, because in essence it's the same thing.. I mean, I know there are sites that have free books online and what not, and that would be piracy I guess... so what I'm doing is the same I guess... | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by techdaemon
I know there are sites that have free books online and what not, and that would be piracy I guess
It's not piracy if the author agrees to it. Online books are usually in the public domain or are approved of by the author, otherwise, it is illegal. | |
| techdaemon 2001-06-29, 9:31 am |
| Ok, so i'm wrong.. I'm sorry.. I'm just a stupid 19yr old kid... I wanted to make friends here, not enemies... It seems like you guys really dislike me here.. | |
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| Look dude, it's not YOU we have a prob with. And believe it or not, I understand quite well where you are coming from. I know these certs can get expensive, especially when you head the MCSE route and are looking at 7 tests, plus the books and software to practice on. But if you were on the other end, you wouldn't like being shortchanged either would you? I know it won't break anyone, but it is a bit dishonest. We're not trying to slam you for it . . . heck, I like getting things for free as well . . . but that is not the same thing as saying we feel 100% confortable with it. I don't think you do either, or you wouldn't have asked our opinion. Don't let this scare you off, we are here to help 9and to get help), but in general, thos sort of thing is frowned upon here. Talk tech and you'll get a lot more sympathetic responses. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by techdaemon
Ok, so i'm wrong.. I'm sorry.. I'm just a stupid 19yr old kid... I wanted to make friends here, not enemies... It seems like you guys really dislike me here..
We don't dislike you. It is more that we do not understand why you ask an obvious question to which you already seemed to know the answer, then got upset when we confirmed the afore-mentioned answer.
Take it easy, and let us know if we can help from a technical perspective.
Maybe this thread has gone for long enough and should be closed now... | |
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