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Home > Archive > 70-068 enterprise > July 2000 > paper mcse----whatever it takes
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paper mcse----whatever it takes
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| Some one sent this to me, thought I would pass it along. I have no idea where it is from but it puts things things in perspective. I think sites like this can use a little corrective thought, there always seems to be too many negative posts about people that do what ever it takes to reach their goals, anyway here is the post.
This is a very nice article written by IT Professional who tackles the unfair label of paper MCSE that's thrown around. Read it it's long but you'll enjoy it if you're trying to become a MCSE and some current MCSE's that this article talks about won't like it, Oh well you can't please everyone. The article comes from ******************************
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I’m beginning to see the term Paper MCSE everywhere I look on the Internet and I don’t like it. The term is being used by many to devalue MCSE’s with little or no experience, and I don’t know why. Like many other catch phrases you’ve got to wonder what motivates such verbiage. I remember a few years back when the term paper network administrator was attached to the CNE certification to sell the MCSE, but this is a different IT market today and I don’t think it’s going to be as easy to fail to recognize that Tiger MCSE’s (Paper Tigers / Paper MCSE’s) play a vital roll in staffing an IS department.
As a Director of Information Systems, when I look to fill a position in my department, I of course, first look for experience, or more precisely, Product Knowledge Experience. For example, if I need someone to manage and maintain a group of NT Servers, I look for someone with product knowledge in NT Server. (or if the OS was Netware I’d look for someone with product knowledge in Netware.) This seems simple enough, but as any network manager or IS director will tell you, it’s just not that simple. Finding experienced computer professionals in today’s market is very difficult and the ones you do find will cost you money. You either have to steal them away from another company, find one that is discontent, or you settle for one that has plenty of experience but has a personality issue (i.e. complains all the time and can’t get along with anyone.). Or you just can’t find anyone at all. So, what do you do if you can’t find experienced people to fill the job? (Experienced people being, those with product knowledge.) The next best thing is someone with a certification. A certification at the bare minimum represents someone with enough product knowledge to pass the test and was enthusiastic enough to learn. To me this is the best hire because you’ve let the person know that you are giving him/her a chance and that you expect him/her to take advantage of this by learning and working as hard as he/she can until up to speed.
How many people graduate with a degree in computer science that have any experience? I do know of a few, but were they are mostly programmers. If you look at what the universities are teaching in terms of network management and product knowledge, you still have someone that needs to be trained to maintain your unique company needs. And after a year of training you have a computer network trained, computer science major with an MCSE or product knowledge experience that just doubled his or her income, and the question isn’t, are they going to look for another job, the question is just how long do you have before you have to make a counter -offer or start all over again. This is something with which an IS Director in the real world has to deal every day. In any IS department; everyone is on some sort of learning curve learning some new technology. It’s said that, every IS Department turns over every fifteen months or so, from the entry-level people learning networking basics to the senior network engineer teaching him or herself how to use advanced networking devices. It is part of your job to learn. Like a POW in those old World War II flicks, it is your duty to escape—It is your duty to learn as much as you can so you can find a higher paying better position. The more acronyms that you can put on your resume, the more money you can make. I always say: to get a really good job in computer industry you need enough acronyms to satisfy a popular children’s soup. A friend of mine that worked at Microsoft told me that when interviewing a potential candidate it is more important to test that person’s ability to learn rather than what he/she knows right now, because what he/she knows right now might be obsolete in six months. So the value of a so-called paper MCSE is: Where else in any other industry can you draw from a pool of people that have the enthusiasm and energy to learn what has to be the most uninteresting, mind grueling information and quickly make themselves available for hire? I don’t know of any, and I also don’t know why Tiger MCSE’s are getting so much criticism.
I read an article on the Internet where a network manager is quoted as saying that he would rather hire two people at 12.00 dollars an hour and train them, than overpay a paper MCSE. It’s been in my experience that anytime you hire cheap and then train, once you’ve trained them they have product knowledge and now they can triple their income by simply finding another job. The jobs are out there, too. Clearly, that network manager must have a large turnover. Yep, that’s the way it works in real life. Not only do I know what I’m talking about, but I have been the trainee, the trainer, the network manager, and the MCSE with and without experience. Don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. In this rapidly growing industry there are never too many MCSE’s, paper or otherwise. When you can’t find enough people to fill a position, some product knowledge looks a lot better than none at all.
Doug Chick
Director of Information Systems
MCSE, MCP, CCNA
What do you think????????????
pope
MCP 2X
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| Ok, I'm gonna state my opinion. First off if more companys were hiring the way this guy who wrote the article does, getting a job in the IT world would be great. Here's how I feel. Getting into the IT world is next to impossible to get in without any experience. Everyone I know in the field has friends/family who helped them to get in. The others took courses in high school which helped them have experience and that was enough to get them in the door. Now for someone who is out of high school been working various jobs for years and now wants to get into the IT field, you need an A+ certification just to crack open a computer for a company. So you buy the books and shell out money for the exams pass and try to get an entry job. So does that make you a Paper A+? Probably. Would you want this guy working on your computer? Until he was trained by another tech and had more experience, I wouldn't. No offense. Now Imagine you have a large corporate company and need a network administrator, would you hire a MCSE with a title but nothing in way of experience? Let's face it. This is the real world and few employeers will take a chance with that. I know someone who is an MCSE and still can't get a IT job, and was denied jobs because he didn't have his A+, and his certification expires next year. He wasted about $6000.00 for schooling and everyday he isn't working on a network, he is forgetting everything he was taught. That sucks. Life sucks too though. So for rambling on. This is merely MY opinion. WHAT'S YOUR'S??? | |
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| After reading your response I read the article again and to be blunt I think you missed the point. The article is addressing the negative connotations being linked to "paper mcse's". If anything it was ment to be a positive post. I am sorry if your life sucks, thing are working out for me and I hope everone else can fight the good fight and make things happen. Do what ever it takes and don't give up hope. There are a lot of reasons to give up and dwell on how bad thing are in this industry, let's focus on the positive( we all know the difficulties of the mcse path). Even if this guy is one in a million then you still have a chance. If you don't think this is true why bother taking the tests, checking the dumps, or posting a response,why not just quit and start someting else. And this is my opinion.
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| AMEN POPE!!!! That article was actually posted my me and the guy is legit. I've communicated with him and know of him. MCSE Sellout Lighten up man, we need positive vibes on this board. Pope is right if you're going to quit, don't take the test and shell out the money. There are plenty of us who are going to get it, I'm a prime example, i'm not trying to toot my horn, but i had a most extraordinary experience when i passed my server test, go to the Server forum and read it. Don't give up. It's going to be worth it. It's cloudy now but believe me it's going to all work out. If i can help anyone i'm here.
( Procrastination and Lack of Effort is the Enemy of Success!)
Courvoisser
A+ MCP | |
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| First off POOP, let me tell you my life doesn't **** , acually it's going quite well. I do work in the IT field and I didn't state anywhere that I was going to quit taking the exams. Where the hell did you get that from? I am taking the exams to get my MCSE and to better myself to gain more knowledge to better myself and to do a better job for my employer. Isn't that why your taking the exams? Of couse. I merely stated that getting an IT job with just a certification and a prayer and dreaming of the big bucks just doesn't aways work. It can be hard to get the job you want. It takes determination and a desire to learn. I personally am glad I had to start at the bottom and work my way up because the hands on experience was a better leaning tool than just reading some books, and taking an exam. So for someone like me, getting an MCSE cert and finding a good paying job will be more to my advantage than someone with no experience who took a summer to get their MCSE and is looking to make big bucks. My friend took that route and hasn't gotten him anywhere. Alright, let's keep this positive. Study hard, work hard, eat all your veggies, and someday, you too might be a WELL PAID MCSE! | |
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| Wow!!!! First I would like to say that a BLIND CRACK SMOKING MONKEY IN A DARK ROOM WITH A DRINKING HABIT could see and understand the message behind these posts. You my friend have failed to understand these posts several times. But I can help, just follow these easy steps:
1. Switch to decaffeinated coffee.
2. Relax think happy thoughts.
3. Find someone to read these posts and explain them to you.
4. Don't go away mad just go away.
I tried to post a message that would inspire all the people that are tired of this paper mcse crap, thats it. It was not meant to be an attack against your person. I am soooo happy you have a job, and some hands on exp. great for you. Nothing you can say will NOW OR EVER change the FACT--YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE POST. Well let's keep it positive, get hooked on phonics and then you will be a WELL PAID MCSE WITH READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS.
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 07-13-2000).]
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 07-13-2000).] | |
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| Chill out man! Geez, let the guy state his opinion. Trying to keep this positive doesn't mean insulting him. I fail to see how starting a meaningless flame war about this article acomplishes anything positive. Tell you what, maybe you should post your feelings about this article. What do you think? Obviously you shared this with us for a reason.
CausnHaVoK
A+ MCP HP
[This message has been edited by CausnHavok (edited 07-14-2000).] | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by CausnHavok:
Chill out man! Geez, let the guy state his opinion. Trying to keep this positive doesn't mean insulting him. I fail to see how starting a meaningless flame war about this article acomplishes anything positive. Tell you what, maybe you should post your feelings about this article. What do you think? Obviously you shared this with us for a reason.
CausnHaVoK
A+ MCP HP
[This message has been edited by CausnHavok (edited 07-14-2000).]
I already stated my opinion about the post,(3rd message)and I thought it was a fair reply. You are correct a flame war serves no purpose so I will no longer comment on this matter. The post is here I hope someone can get someting positive from it, that was my only intention. My retort was appropriate, it was not in responce to his opinion, but a verbal attack directed to me. For anyone that reads the 1st post I hope it is a positive thing, thats all it was intended to be.
pope
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 07-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 07-14-2000).] | |
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| Mighty big of ya there Pope! Do you work as a network admin, or work for a computer company?
CausnHaVoK
A+ MCP HP | |
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| I am the network admin of a small co. I have held this positition for almost a year,worked for the company for two years.
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 07-21-2000).] | |
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| That sounds like you got a pretty good job there. Does that help you out more when studing for the exams? I have set up a sever & Workstation and my job so I can practive the stuff I learn from the Microsoft books, but don't have enough time to use it. I'm getting a new system today and will network them and install server on one so I can practice at home where I have more time.
CausnHaVoK
A+ MCP HP |
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