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Home > Archive > General Discussion > August 2005 > Company encouraging braindumps? WTF?
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Company encouraging braindumps? WTF?
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| ChrisDfer 2005-08-27, 7:00 am |
| I have some moral objections to the use of braindumps(mainly due to many of you people showing me the difference between right and wrong). Anyway, I never used 'em and never plan on using them. But, the company I am working at now seems to encourage people to use braindumps to get certs. This company is very very very very big on the whole certification thing. I was trying to figure out why they would encourage the use of braindumps, but the only thing I could think of is that more certs means they can charge more money for us. Ehnn, anyone else have any experiences like this? | |
| Farrell 2005-08-27, 9:29 am |
| just curious but whats the difference between a braindump and a "practice test" at the end of a study manual? Arent they the same? | |
| ChrisDfer 2005-08-27, 9:37 am |
| Well b.raindumps are the actual questions and answers from the exam. Where as practice questions may be similar but they are not word for word.
To me b.raindumps are like looking at the answer sheet to a quiz in school and practice tests are like doing the uhhh practice questions in your text book. | |
| Farrell 2005-08-27, 9:55 am |
| That is a pretty flimsy distinction. | |
| ChrisDfer 2005-08-27, 10:16 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Farrell
That is a pretty flimsy distinction.
Well that is how I view it. It just pisses me off when I hear some of these guys talking about how they passed their security+ without studying anything but braindumps. So maybe it isn't the braindumps so much, but the methods that braindumps tend to encourage. Besides, I do believe they violate most non-disclosure agreements. | |
| Farrell 2005-08-27, 12:22 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
Well that is how I view it. It just pisses me off when I hear some of these guys talking about how they passed their security+ without studying anything but braindumps. So maybe it isn't the braindumps so much, but the methods that braindumps tend to encourage. Besides, I do believe they violate most non-disclosure agreements.
ok, i can buy that . . . its just that when you see something like "free braindumps" on the net its hard not to look considering the moutns you have to payu for the exams. but to me most of the online bd's i have seen resemble a great deal the "study tests" at the end of cert books.
As far as fer guys gettin certs by cheating or memorizing bd material . . . well, they wont do too well on the job now will they? 
I know when I was doing my A+ I wrecked my computer a lot, but always managed to fix it by messing with stuff (this was usually both the cause and the fix). I think if you dont actually have hands on work, u will have probs cause exams can only test so mcuh.
Anyway, cheers man. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Farrell
That is a pretty flimsy distinction.
I don't think so. I think that it is a HUGE difference.
As a student, what I usually do is take the official curriculum and go page by page, creating questions of all te salient points that, as an instructor, I would test if I were to create that exam. At the end, I have a pretty big body of material at my disposal with which to quiz myself. This is as far away from a braindump as playing golf on the week end is far from clubbing baby seals for entertainment... if you pardon the mental image. | |
| Farrell 2005-08-27, 2:42 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by freak
I don't think so. I think that it is a HUGE difference.
As a student, what I usually do is take the official curriculum and go page by page, creating questions of all te salient points that, as an instructor, I would test if I were to create that exam. At the end, I have a pretty big body of material at my disposal with which to quiz myself. This is as far away from a braindump as playing golf on the week end is far from clubbing baby seals for entertainment... if you pardon the mental image.
I see the distinction that you make . . . but in essence, no one ios orced to take your class, and in practise, is the braindupm made freely available on the net any differtent from the ones available any differnt from the kns at the ends on books (nb: I am not saying they are equal in nature; one is designed as a cheating aid, another as a tesingt of what u know(. Its just that in content they seem very similar. | |
| Timber 2005-08-27, 2:48 pm |
| STAY AWAY FROM BRAIN DUMPS. If you’re going to use test questions from a web site – use clean sites – preferably those endorsed by the certificate-granting vendors. Any one who plays in a garbage dump, will smell like garbage when they go for a job interview. If you’re not familiar with what a Brian Dump is - the following site has a half way decent definition of one: http://www.2000exams.com/Registrati...ction=BrainDump
Have some INTEGRITY folks!!! I can’t think of a single Budgie, Parakeet or Cockatiel that can troubleshoot a computer by repeating the - a, b, c’ s.
Speaking of Brain Dumps & Birdbrains – The following question - from an unknown author - has withstood the test of time, and has several possible answers. As hard as you may laugh at some of the answers to this question – that is as hard as your interviewer will laugh at you & your answers if you’re relying on Brain Dumps to help you gain Wisdom, Knowledge & Understanding of any subject that you study in life.
Now the question & answers from a dump of brains:
WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD??
> GEORGE W BUSH
> We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road, or not. The chicken is either against us, or for us. There is no middle ground here.
>
> COLIN POWELL
> Now to the left of the screen, you can clearly see the satellite image of the chicken crossing the road.
>
> HANS BLIX
> We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet been allowed to have access to the other side of the road.
>
> JOHN KERRY
> Although I voted to let the chicken cross the road, I am now against it!
>
> RALPH NADER
> The chicken's habitat on the other side of the road had been polluted by unchecked industrial greed. The chicken did not reach the unspoiled habitat on the other side of the road because it was crushed by the wheels of a gas-guzzling SUV.
>
> PAT BUCHANAN
> To steal the job of a decent, hardworking American.
>
> RUSH LIMBAUGH
> I don't know why the chicken crossed the road, but I'll bet it was getting a government grant to cross the road, and I'll bet that somebody out there is already forming a support group to help chickens with crossing-the-road syndrome. Can you believe this?!? How much more of this can real Americans take? Chickens crossing the road paid for by their tax dollars. And when I say tax dollars, I'm talking about your money, money the government took from you to build a road for chickens to cross.
>
> MARTHA STEWART
> No one called me to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a standing order at the Farmer's Market to sell my eggs when the price dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider information.
>
> DR SEUSS
> Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes, the chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed I've not been told.
>
> ERNEST HEMINGWAY
> To die in the rain. Alone.
>
> MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR
> I have a dream where all chickens will be free to cross roads without having their motives called into question.
>
> GRANDPA
> In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Somebody told us the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough.
>
> BARBARA WALTERS
> Isn't that interesting? In a few moments, we will be listening to the chicken tell, for the first time, the heartwarming story of how it experienced a serious case of molting, and went on to accomplish its life long dream of crossing the road.
>
> JOHN LENNON
> Imagine all the chickens in the world crossing roads together - in peace.
>
> ARISTOTLE
> It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.
>
> KARL MARX
> It was an historic inevitability.
>
> CAPTAIN KIRK
> To boldly go where no chicken has ever gone before.
>
> SIGMUND FREUD
> The fact that you are at all concerned that the chicken crossed the road reveals your underlying sexual insecurity.
>
> BILL GATES
> I have just witnessed eChicken2005, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents, and balance your checkbook. Internet explorer is an integral part of eChicken.
>
> ALBERT EINSTEIN
> Did the chicken really cross the road, or did the road move beneath the chicken?
>
> BILL CLINTON
> I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. What is your definition of cross?
>
> AL GORE
> I invented the chicken!
>
> COLONEL SANDERS
> Did I miss one? | |
| ChrisDfer 2005-08-27, 3:31 pm |
| lol @ chickens. | |
| acruth7284 2005-08-27, 9:06 pm |
| Well here is how I feel about braindumps. It doesn't matter what study material I use, bt when I am done I have to know how everything for the certification and lower certifications/areas of study work together. Example using security+: You learn tons of facts about about encryption. You may know every encryption method covered on the test, but not know how to use it on a network. If this is the case, then ,IMO, you have braindumed your way through a test. I cast braindumps more as the responsibility of the studier than the person who supplies the material. Now of course this generality gets thrown out the window if they are real questions from test, because no matter what you say that is cheating. | |
| curiousgeorge 2005-08-28, 12:12 am |
| I don't care HOW somebody got their cert(s). As a hiring manager, I just ignore any certs that aren't backed up by direct real-world experience.
Certs enhance your real-world experience, nothing more. A cert with no experience is a waste of the ink that put it on the resume.
I would hire someone who braindumped his way throgh an MCSE if he had 5 years of experience in the field to complement it.
However, I wouldn't even consider someone who has several certs, but no experience to go with them, no matter how he/she got the certs.
And "Consultant" = Unemployed
If you are honestly good at what you do as a Consultant, you'll never want to work for the man. But if you can't find a real job and fill in the gap of the past x years as a "Consultant", that's just a red flag to me.
People should concentrate more on getting real-world experience in a production environment than getting certs. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Farrell
I see the distinction that you make . . . but in essence, no one ios orced to take your class, and in practise, is the braindupm made freely available on the net any differtent from the ones available any differnt from the kns at the ends on books (nb: I am not saying they are equal in nature; one is designed as a cheating aid, another as a tesingt of what u know(. Its just that in content they seem very similar.
Let's transfer this away from the IT Cert environment. Let's say you are attending college. Someone broke into a professor's office and stole the list of questions that you will see in your finals. He then offers to sell them to you for a fee so that you can look at them prior to taking your finals. Do you think that this is:
a. Acceptable
b. It doesn't matter how you pass as long as you pass
c. Integrity? What's that?
d. Criminal behavior on the part of the thief, and a distinct lack of integrity on the part of the test taker willing to buy the questions prior to sitting the finals
If you still can't see that d. is the correct answer, then I don't think there is a reason to continue this conversation 
As for what CG posted, I agree to a point. I certainly agree that certs and experience together are where it's at. I would venture the following in terms of ratings of prospects:
1. Certs and Experience
2. Experience Only
3 Certs only
4. Neither
In other words, it's better to be rich and beautiful and smart than stuopid, poor and ugly as a monkfish. No kidding
Where I differ from CG is that I would not hire a tech, however good they may be, whom I know cheated to pass his tests. This is a lack of character that is unacceptable, especially in my industry - information security, for Pete's sake. | |
| Farrell 2005-08-28, 5:56 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by freak
Where I differ from CG is that I would not hire a tech, however good they may be, whom I know cheated to pass his tests. This is a lack of character that is unacceptable, especially in my industry - information security, for Pete's sake.
I understand your point, but I doubt if they would tell you that they cheated on their cert exams. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Farrell
I understand your point, but I doubt if they would tell you that they cheated on their cert exams.
agreed  I was just reacting to another post as you know!
Although if they did, wouldn't that be the shortest interview ever
"well, it was nice meeting you... you found the door to come in, I trust you will find it again to get out." | |
| Farrell 2005-08-29, 7:05 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by freak
"well, it was nice meeting you... you found the door to come in, I trust you will find it again to get out."
*candidate crashes into wall on the way out* | |
| ChrisDfer 2005-08-29, 4:14 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Farrell
*candidate crashes into wall on the way out*
Doesn't everyone do that? Getting wasted before an interview is the best way to ensure success. | |
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| George Carlin has a great bit about interviews, like asking "What do you think about 4-day weekends?" and pointing at the picture on the interviewer's desk and askign "Who's the c*nt?" |
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