General Discussion - About A+ Certification

Author

About A+ Certification

Jillip

2004-09-08, 12:09 pm

As a Director of a fast-growing company in town, I have experienced quite a disappointment with those having A+ certification.

I realize now that I should screen people out that put "A+" alone after their names, for their attempt to impress me anymore is futile. I had to fix 7 computers in one week, with different problems, that my A+ staff was not able to fix.

"How did you do that?" they asked. I hate this, but the two people that brags the most about their certification is about to go out the door. The other two seems willing to learn, so I have to find someone to train them to get them up to speed on actually fixing a computer. Meanwhile, my co-workers are aggravated that their computers seem to be "monkeyed with, but never fixed".

What is wrong with this picture? I have no intentions of slamming the people that actually have A+ certification, but in my latest research, it looks as though A+ certification means next to nothing for the employer in the first place.

My theory is that CompTIA is raking in money by snowing people like me. I am still impressed and awed by my CCNA and MCSE engineers, although somewhat aggravated at Microsoft's ever-changing standards. Actually my MCSE has expired his certification, but we don't care, like the two CCNA's, he's paid well, and he's staying on board.

CompTIA has disappointed me. Any thoughts?

Supertech

2004-09-08, 12:26 pm

Perhaps you expect a little too much from your entry-level techs. What sort of supervision do these people have? Do you expect entry-level technicians to operate autonomously with no guidance. Sounds like you might be failing them.

You get what you pay for. If the minimum requirement for your support staff is an A+ then that's the level of support you should expect. Have you provided any additional training on your company's platforms? A+ is vendor neutral. Are your desktops vendor neutral or do you standardize on a particular manufacturer? Expecting an A+ tech to know the nuance of an HP or Dell machine is asking too much.

Sounds to me like you are trying to pass the buck. If you are responsible for the support of your company's IT infrastrucure, you need to take the steps necessary to ensure the proper level of service is maintained.

Blanketly blaming CompTIA for the quality of the technicians you hire is like blaming Yale for the job Bush is doing.

curiousgeorge

2004-09-08, 1:46 pm

This post has to be a joke.

Jillip-

You need to blame the hiring manager, not the employee. As a manager, you should know that experience counts MUCH more than a cert. You need to ask better questions about the person's experience during the interview.

And your department obviously has inadequate training in place. Instead of firing your techs, why don't you train them properly? I've NEVER worked for a company where all techs know everything.

Hold yourself accountable for deficiencies in your department ESPECIALLY before you decide to fire someone (that's leadership 101).

badpapajj

2004-09-08, 2:22 pm

I am glad to here you are hiring A+ Certs. You are getting people who have the knowledge to excell once properly trained with your company's support technology. You must understand they are ready to enter into your company at the entry level and excell faster than a person not certified. A once a week training meeting will take them and you a long way. Faster and cheaper then any other more certified person, who would need a little time to figure things out anyway.

curiousgeorge

2004-09-08, 2:36 pm

One company I worked for had a two week training class to go over the specific hardware on their network.

Another company I worked for had weekly conference calls with all the techs in the region to discuss new problems on the network and how they were solved.

Another company had "Lead" techs that were there when a tech needed help. They also gave everyone a Nextel phone so all techs could talk to each other on the fly.

It just sounds like Jillip expects too much from an entry level person, there is a lack of guidance, too much autonomy, not enough communication, and inadequate training.

Jillip

2004-09-08, 2:46 pm

We build our own computers. I have had no problems for the 3 years that we have done consulting work for various companies until I have been persuaded to hire A+ certified technicians. A+ certified technicians will work for lower pay, that's a given.

When you train an employee, and have limited pay, you take the chance of losing that employee, as well as the time you spent training.

You are right, I do get what I paid for, actually less. Softrain recently left this area, so the certification that I have been looking for among students are gone.

There is a world of difference with the A+ certification. On one hand, its probably worth it for the job-seeker to be A+ certified, because there are too many ignorant folks being persuaded that an A+ person is the way to go.

My suggestion is if you have an A+, shoot for something better. Experience would be excellent, but my rewards system includes raising the salaries of my employees.

I have a staff of over 20, I do not want to divulge too much information. Never fired anybody yet, and I do not want to. Only two in my staff left for personal reasons.

The two I have problems with have cost me more time and money, perhaps simply because they think they cannot be wrong.

The other two are trainable. I just wanted to post and say, I'll never hire an A+ braggart again. If someone has A+, and NET+ after their names, I'll consider it as the person is trying to better himself. Lately, it seems that A+ certification is just considered a "ticket" to a job.

I believe the A+ certification should have nothing to do with the job, and should be more of an option for the person to take, so if they're fresh... they will feel more comfortable taking other certifications.

You will see that I am qualified to say so. Other than that I have let my MCSE expire.

P. Jarman

CCNE

yanqui

2004-09-08, 3:11 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Jillip
We build our own computers. I have had no problems for the 3 years that we have done consulting work for various companies until I have been persuaded to hire A+ certified technicians. A+ certified technicians will work for lower pay, that's a given.

Lower than WHAT? Lower than an MCSE? DUH--I would, because you should expect an MCSE to know more. A+ is NOT MCSE--it's supposed to be equivalent to approximately 6 months to one year of hands-on experience.

quote:
When you train an employee, and have limited pay, you take the chance of losing that employee, as well as the time you spent training.

And you will eventually lose both--but you'll lose all of your employees anyway--either to better opportunities, to family situations, to retirement, or to death. I work for a company that feels the way you do--we're simply not worth putting any money into.

quote:
You are right, I do get what I paid for, actually less.

What do you think you're paying for? IN our area, someone with entry-level skills is worth $25K-$28k per year.

quote:
There is a world of difference with the A+ certification. On one hand, its probably worth it for the job-seeker to be A+ certified, because there are too many ignorant folks being persuaded that an A+ person is the way to go.

Not in my experience. I've seen IT professionals who felt it was worthless; and I've seen IT professionals who felt it was a good measure of entry-level skills. I've never seen an IT professional who thought it was equivalent to more than a year on the job.

quote:
My suggestion is if you have an A+, shoot for something better. Experience would be excellent, but my rewards system includes raising the salaries of my employees.

Does it also include more training? If not, you should expect to lose more employees to companies that will offer to at least pay for part of the training. You want to benefit from the training that other companies have put into their employees if you want only experienced employees. Think about it--the only way to get experience is to get experience. If you're not willing to offer that chance, then you want to hire employees who have had that chance offered by someone else.

quote:
The two I have problems with have cost me more time and money, perhaps simply because they think they cannot be wrong.

That probably hasn't anything to do with A+, it's probably a personality thing.

quote:
The other two are trainable.

So train them.

quote:
I just wanted to post and say, I'll never hire an A+ braggart again. If someone has A+, and NET+ after their names, I'll consider it as the person is trying to better himself. Lately, it seems that A+ certification is just considered a "ticket" to a job.

Not around here!

quote:
I believe the A+ certification should have nothing to do with the job,

So don't make it a requirement or even a plus. Find some other way to measure skill. For me, it has been a foot in the door. THen at the interview there can be a skills assessment. Do you expect your techs to know all the answers, or is it enough that they will find the answers and fix the problem properly, and what will you accept as a realistic learning curve? Is there anything about your organization that is rare or specific that you ARE willing to train at? Even if you have a budget, especially if you work at a smallish privately owned corporation, it's hard to justify money for training, unless you can explain to the shareholders that professional development is a fringe benefit that does positively affect the bottom line. But it helps if you get the accountants in on it.

curiousgeorge

2004-09-08, 4:46 pm

OK, now I know this thread is a joke.

They haven't expired any MCSE certs. They now make a distinction between which OS you are certified on. If you didn't know that, you don't appear to know much about IT and certs.

This doesn't sound like a problem with the techs at all. You have hiring, budgeting, and training problems. The hiring manager isn't asking the right questions in the interviews, the company isn't paying enough to attract qualified candidates, and I didn't see you mention any type of ongoing training.

Don't blame a cert for your company's poor management.

dhn305

2004-09-12, 12:26 pm

Isn't the NT platform "expired"?

wayne62682

2004-09-12, 2:45 pm

Okay I have to make a comment on this.. being A+ certified doesn't mean that you know everything there is to know about PCs, or that you can magically hold a stethoscope (sp) to the PC and immediatly figure out what's wrong with it. It represents a foundation of knowledge on how the PC and OS work.

I just got my A+. Can I instantly look at a PC and in 5 seconds determine what's wrong with it? No. But do I know HOW to troubleshoot it, so I can try different methods to find a solution? Yes! Same goes for hardware. I may not be able to scratch-build a PC in 10 minutes, but I know what each component does and how it connects to the motherboard. I'm sorry to say it, but reading this post gives me second thoughts about the IT field, if people seem to think this way.

Nothing personal against Jillip, but if you expect someone with an A+ certification to know EVERYTHING about computers and not have to spend any time thinking about solutions or researching things they don't know, then that's what the problem is, not the certification itself.

I would honestly not want to ever work for someone who thought that just because I'm A+ certified I'm incompetant if I have to reasearch a problem I'm not familiar with, or have to spend a few minutes before doing a repair. It's an entry-levelcertification for a reason. Hell, I wouldn't even expect an MCSE to know EVERYTHING. It's impossible.

nickhardy

2004-09-12, 2:45 pm

If A+ is as worthless as some people seem to believe, which certs are generally considered to have real value?

smrkdown

2004-09-12, 3:22 pm

It depends what you are looking to do. For someone looking to work as a PC technician, A+ is great. I see alot of technician jobs requiring A+. For networking jobs, Microsoft and Cisco certs are usually held in high regard. CNE and CNA are useful for the niche Novell market.

enforcer

2004-09-12, 3:43 pm

quote:
Originally posted by dhn305
Isn't the NT platform "expired"?

you can no longer take NT exams, however if you have the qualification it is still valid. (thank god.)

sandy7000

2004-09-12, 11:17 pm

quote:
Softrain recently left this area, so the certification that I have been looking for among students are gone.

I'm confused.

http://www.softraininc.com/

MOUS, other MS certs, Comptia are all I saw as promoted. Here's a link to the A+ certification outline: http://www.softraininc.com/certific...il.php?certID=1

That looks like a typical A+ cert track to me....or is actually a different kind of certification they're offering that you were referring to?

nardo88

2004-09-13, 11:39 am

Hi there,

I've recently received both the A+ and Net+ certifications but in no way feel that makes me some sort of super computer guru. I know that I have a lot more to learn and indeed am on a quest to "better myself". I am currently working on the MCSA and plan on getting the CCNA and Security+ in the future.

I am currently in a job hunt and I hope that there are other tech supervisors out there that don't share your point of view. I've known all along that the A+ cert is just the first step. I never felt that the jobs would start rolling in after I put it on my resume, but I guess some people do.

I think that this is a case of a few rotten apples spoiling the whole bunch. There are people out there that think the A+ cert. means they know all there is to know about computers, but some of us don't feel that way.

I hope you'll start to judge your employees based on their specific skill set rather than their certs because this can work both ways.

donroper

2004-09-13, 1:12 pm

Screw Certs; period! Give me experienced people who can think!

I have had MCSE's that don't know dirt about PC's, networks, servers and very little about server applications. They know what the tests are about but nothing about how the systems work. Experience and the personal need to get better in the area is what is important. I have a friend that is MCSE certified on Windows 2000/XP that does Data Base administrator tasks all day. But ask him to troubleshoot or secure Windows 2000 server or XP and he's lost. He got his job because of his MCSE but will tell you right quick that he doesn't use it at all; and he doesn't want to use it. So will the MCSE help him if he has a need for another job? You bet it will. He knows that and uses it to his advantage during yearly reviews. Even he concedes that MCSE stands for Microsoft Certified SALES Engineer because people who hold MCSE's will always recommend MS crap because they don't realize there is better stuff out there. But "Tom" realizes that "thangs are changin'" and has begun learning about Linux and enterprise security.

Let's contrast that with the person who was here before me. She was MCSE (NT),CNE, A+ and CCNA certified. She was also incompetent. She couldn't program routers, install OS's, upgrade PC's or even buy decent PC's. Apparently she could pass tests so I know she wasn't stupid. When I took over the department she had just left for greener pastures and NOTHING WORKED. Users couldn't open documents, print or even get their PC's on half the time. Average server uptime was at 95%. Now server uptime is 99.999%, the department gets less than one service request a day and user satisfaction has gone from 40% when I got here to 95% now (ya can't please everyone!). We use Windows XP and 2000 server, Novell Netware 6.5, Linux, 2 AS/400's (iSeries for you newbies), and have 9 other locations beside HQ not including telecommuters. We have also lowered the I.T. budget and added more services like web mail, web calendars and an employee portal. Some of the techs that were here then are still here and they say the systems work better. The best techs I have do not have any certs except A+; everyone has to have it or get it within 1 year of employment.

But the biggest problem we in IT have is being able to identify good solid people. I have hired people that did great in the interview but could'nt cut it in the real world and I have hired terrible interviewees that were great technically. The great techs can always learn to interview better but the terrible techs were always going to be terrible techs even with training. I now look for experience and try to hold more gentle and kind interviews. It really has helped me find great talent that will stay with me for the long haul.

Bye the way. Besides the MBA, I ONLY have A+ and Network+ certifications and usually I had to fix problems my MCSE Techs are supposed to know how to fix but couldn't. And yes we do train but it's up to the individual to also do his homework and stay current.

Would I have trouble getting another job without a MCSE? You bet your AsX I would. Even with 15 years of experience and a great track record for making IT systems work, most HR and IT people view anyone without a cert as less than desirable. Their loss.

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