General Discussion - Userless certs? Is there such thing? My theory on this.....

Author

Userless certs? Is there such thing? My theory on this.....

abraves

2004-07-10, 6:12 pm

Hey guys,

I am always hearing a lot of people on here complain about "useless certs" and how they are no good, vendor neutral, or beginner stuff that you don't need. I kind of have my own opinion on it and would LOVE to hear yours. Whether it's the same, or different, I want to hear what others think.

Recently, in one of the newsgroups, someone was complaining about the i-net+ cert and that you can get the CIW-A cert also if you pass the i-net+. They were complaining saying "Oh boy, you get 2 certs for free....but they are 2 useless certs." Being out in the business world for sometime before going into education teaching college level CCNA courses, I kind of have a theory on certs, education, degrees, etc.

Whether you realize it or not, MOST of the upper mgmt. that does the hiring, has NO clue what a inet+, ccna, etc. is. At my last job the Sr. VP of IT did not know what that was. He knew what A+ was and that was about it. The people who know what all of these certs are, are people that are out working and doing the day to day IT work. We know what it is. 9 times out of 10 though....we are NOT doing the hiring. And whether we want to admit it or not, letters behind your name is impressive to most upper mgmt. folks. For instance, I am personally impressed when I see someone with Ph.D. behind their name. Now, what does that mean exactly? WEll technically it could be an honorary degree that they never "earned." It could also be a Ph.D. they received in some correspondence online thing....it could be a Ph.D. in recreation.....but on the same hand it could be a Ph.D. in theology, philosophy, etc. BUT, the fact still remains, when someone sees Ph.D. behind someones name it is impressive.

Now, on the same hand, an upper mgmt. employee may see somebody and they have A+, Net+, CIW-A, i-net+, MCP. Another candidate may just have CCNA behind their name. Now I know, as well as you do, this CCNA is far more valuable than all of those other certs combined. However, if you are not a Systems Tech or Network Admin, and you are the Upper Mgmt. in IT who has a Masters in IT or an MBA.....they probably don't have ANY certs and are NOT overly familiar with what is what. This 1st person in the example may not have even half of the knowledge of what the 2nd person has....but he may VERY well get the job because of the amount of certs he has.

Also, being in the corporate world and education.....I also believe that you need both, good educdation AND certs. I got my B.S. in I.S. and believed I didn't need any certs because they were a waste of time. Other people have certs and think education is a waste of time. In today's world, you need BOTH. It's tough out there in teh job world. So if that i-net+ and CIW-A puts you over the top and gets you that job......and you still have the other person complaining because he thinks the i-net+ and CIW-A is a waste of time.....well he can sit there and be stubborn and continue to think it is a waste of time, but not have the job!!!

I also thoroughly believe that employers should be VERY careful of those who have no formal college education but have a TON of certs.....We had a guy working one time who had a CCNA that had just got hired....he did NOT know the difference between a RJ-11 and an RJ-45 Patch Cable. I lie to you not! That is a true story. The point is, just because you have certs, doesn't mean you know ANYTHING. THere are plenty of brain dumps that can get you by and you know nothing about computers. But my point is also, don't be the person that is too stubborn to go out and get an entry level cert because you think you know so much that you will never need it. Because 9 times out of 10 that person who doesn't know what an RJ-11 and RJ-45 cable is.....9 times out of 10 he is sitting in a nice office desk with a JOB while you are sitting at home knowing 20 times what he does and too stubborn to get an entry level or "useless" certs. I know that was long winded. What do you guys think?????

Crito

2004-07-10, 8:14 pm

IT is a broad field with many specializations. I've met highly gifted programmers with advanced degrees that run around like chickens with their heads cut off when the network goes down. I've met extremely talented UNIX admins with decades of experience that couldn't pass A+ if their life depended on it. I've met MCSEs running LANs with hundreds of PCs who wonder where the drive letters are when confronted with a Linux box. Being accomplished in one area of IT doesn't amount to a hill of beans in another.

I think many who dismiss "lower level" certs because they already have more advanced credentials are bluffing. The UNIX guy doesn't want to learn Windows to pass A+ and the Windows guy doesn't want to learn Linux to pass LPIC1. The software engineer with a master’s degree probably doesn't want to learn how to crimp an RJ-45 connector or use a punchdown tool either.

It's just much easier to say they don't need them. And to perform their specific job perhaps they don't. It bothers me when they demean those who do have them in an effort to hide their own inadequacies, however.

onoski

2004-07-11, 7:23 am

Well said Crito

mikop

2004-07-11, 7:42 am

I once ran out of toilet paper, a piece of paper is NEVER useless!!!

prezbedard

2004-07-12, 2:08 am

Now how did an intellectual topic get in here? j/k

Some good points though. I can see why some with higher level certs wouldn't want to go back for the lower/beginner level ones. Though my approach is to have several lower level certs and work my way up from there. I did not learn about cerification until after i had finished my college education. Though I shouldn't say finish since that is option I am keeping open for the furtue.

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