|
Home > Archive > General Discussion > May 2004 > what certs chould i get???
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
what certs chould i get???
|
|
| therashaland 2004-05-21, 2:44 pm |
| I am looking at going into netadmin. What do u guys think are the better choices as fasr as certs go?. I plan on finishing A+ up next week. And am plaing on go for comptia's Net+. Not sure what to do. Is novell worth getting certed in? i heard there arent many Novell networks being setup any more.
I also am debating between Cisco or Microsoft certs.
Just wondering what u guys think i should work towards. thanks | |
| sean34 2004-05-21, 8:44 pm |
| it seems like u got a start...A+ and N+ are a good foundation.
After that, Id lean towards the MS certs over Cisco. It seems more netadmin type jobs require MS certs over cisco.
just IHMO though...best of luck | |
| therashaland 2004-05-22, 11:28 am |
| thanks sean | |
| HOOLIGAN 2004-05-26, 7:35 am |
| Your going to have to be a NetTech first. I don't know of any company that would hire someone as an Admin with no experience. Id agree with Seans choices. | |
| therashaland 2004-05-26, 8:45 am |
| yea i didnt really wanna go stright into admin. I am a Junior in highschool so i got on emore year before i can raewlly get job experince in the IT field. The computer stores in my area are family owned and dont hire  . We got a bestbuy near but they arent hiring. SO i really gotta wait untill im outta highschool. SO untill then i am going to study up and get some certs. | |
| npo3po 2004-05-26, 9:11 am |
| well u definitely have a excellent headstart on the cert game, make sure to get that b.s too. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2004-05-26, 11:26 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by npo3po
well u definitely have a excellent headstart on the cert game, make sure to get that b.s too.
Agreed, If you want the top paying jobs you need to get yourself a degree. | |
| onoski 2004-05-27, 6:47 am |
| A degree does not mean a top job by the way. This is not to discourage anyone but its not a visa to a top job in any way. Maybe in the field of medicine but not I.T | |
| HOOLIGAN 2004-05-27, 11:36 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by onoski
A degree does not mean a top job by the way. This is not to discourage anyone but its not a visa to a top job in any way. Maybe in the field of medicine but not I.T
I seem to remember a saying about Taxes and Death being the only guarantees in life. But I know of a lot of people who are now in top paying jobs since they obtained one. | |
| mikop 2004-05-28, 12:53 am |
| it is quite easy, it is all about perspective.
if you think IT is just the same as car mechanic professionally, then no, you don't need to get a degree. Have fun creating/deleting and answering trouble ticket for the rest of your life.
if you think IT as a important function of a corporation, then you would realize that it has the same structure as other departments, such as marketing, accoutning etc.
so... while you may not need a degree to be a book keeper, if you want to advance, you need to get a degree in accounting. Like wise, as a staff accountant crunching numbers, you may want to move up, perhaps cpa or cma. then perhaps you think controller looks pretty neat. so you get a mba in finance... perhaps CFO then sound intriquing...
but no, you don't need a degree. car mechanics make good money and you can open your shop etc and roll in dough ripping off 80 year old ladies...
think greater.
of course, ppl will argue "look at sam walton, bill gates, jerry yang etc, they are rich and they needed no stinking degree." ok... quit high school because you really don't need to be able to read, all you need is 1 dollar and super lotto to be rich. | |
| ChrisDfer 2004-05-28, 1:00 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
all you need is 1 dollar and super lotto to be rich.
Someday I plan on saving up so I can do that. | |
|
| I heard that you can usually find a penny or two around times square. | |
| onoski 2004-05-28, 2:46 am |
| Hooligan and Mikop, very good contributions to this topic and well said. My initial contribution to this job is that gaining a degree is not a pre-requisite to landing a top job in IT. However, it does help and it would be more than advisable to obtain one if you can and by all means please do so especially younger folks.
I know a lot of graduates here in the UK with I.T degrees working in stationary stores and the likes of administration duties with low pay. Many of these individuals have given up hope of ever landing an IT role even call handler type roles and helpdesk. Majority of recruiting managers in the UK would offer an IT role to someone that has lots of experience than offer the position to someone without experience but a degree etc.
I would advise anyone to get a degree in engineering, account & finance as they are more likely to stay a prospective career relating to their degrees. You argue as much as you want but am talking from experience as well research purely relating to the UK I.T job market.
Nuff said and don't give up on whatever career you wish to proceed in regardles of the above constrains as its all about fighting and persistance. I did this so could anyone. I wish you all well and God's favour in your endeavours. Cheerio peace out. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2004-05-28, 8:12 am |
| The workforce and those that hire are very pro biased towards Degrees, it is something I disagree with. And certs have been quite damaged by all those MCSE/CCNA factories churning them out. As the wise Mikop said, you are just going for a different class of job with a Degree.
It seems Certs are more specialised where as a degree is much more broad. I have also heard that 60% of jobs ( in the UK ) that advertise for a degree dont really care what your degree is. | |
| mikop 2004-05-28, 11:30 am |
| Hooligan, the very reason they don't care about the degree you have should tell you the importance of technology in IT, especially for the entry level. This mean... low end IT skills are easily picked up and replaceable.
One of my accouting teacher told me long ago... "you didn't come to the university to learn book keeping skills, you came here to learn" or something... ie... don't focus on the technical... that aspect is really trivial... anything you've learned would be replaced by corporate training so you do it OUR way.
The over reliance on this set of knowledge contain in mcse, ccna curriculum is commodity knowledge... everyone have access to it... making you just one of the hundreds... and REPLACEABLE. You do wish to add value right? what value do you add from some cert that 1. value is questionable due to possibility of cheating. 2. contain a set of knowledge easily acquire by everyone else.
I am no army buff... but this is how I understand it. You enlist, you work your XXX off and best you can become sergeant... You go to college, go to ROTC or something and boom, you are a lieutenant with higher pay. Sure... the "IT" staff laugh at their inept manager... but seriously... I laugh my XXX off when I see $10 support staff thinking they are all that when the target of their redicule is making 6 figures.
An issue I have with this forum is that... we are so set in getting ppl's feet in the door that we start them off with the worst possible place... call center and desktop support while it is dead end. As mentioned above, you are REPLACEABLE with limited exposure to other technology and advancement opportunity. This was when I was young in my career and my direct superior was a master in cs, the superior in the corporate chart is a phd in cs... you get expose to a whole different methodlogy, work habit and atmosphere working with good ppl... not just another "tech" ppl who really do the run of the mill stuff.
Realize that... all these certificates are technical stuff... not thinking stuff... and Employer pay ppl to think, not be a technician. Technical skills are easily acquired, the ability to work through a problem is not. The saying we all like to toss around "I may not know it, but I know how to find it" is simply not true... I have belittled, tried to help in many cases where ppl in the "technical field" here simply do not take the next step and where I going through proper reasoning can find the solution. Your value is not knowing the technical, you need to be able to apply it in the greater sense in creating value for the company and for yourself... CCIE is valuable... but look closely at the candidates and their education, experience etc... Ppl pay the candidates to solve their problem, not the strict knowledge base contain in a few books. Use cert wisely and it will help you. Use it like most of the ppl suggest and you will find your self like many stories I have read here...
"I been in support for 4 years... will x and y help me?" you have to come to the conclusion that
1. approach is wrong.
2. dead end job
3. hopeless candidate.
It is not the lack of cert that's slowing/preventing your advancement.
Think great, plan ahead, be inspired. | |
| forbesl 2004-05-28, 11:59 am |
| I think it all boils down to this:
What would you be happy and satisfied with?
If you believe you would be happier in the help desk/tech support/tech admin field, go for it!
If you believe you would be happier making your way up the corporate ladder, go for it!
In order to be successful in anything you really need to love what you're doing and be happy with what you do.
I believe that ANYONE is replaceable. People die, find other jobs, or just simply move and are replaced all the time, no matter what their background, skill set, or degree. No one is irreplaceable. Your position might be indispensable, but the person is always replaceable. | |
|
| perhaps I should qualify it by saying " the cost in finding a replacement become unattractive" but man, we can qualify everything and that gets to be a bore. | |
| forbesl 2004-05-28, 5:46 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
perhaps I should qualify it by saying " the cost in finding a replacement become unattractive" but man, we can qualify everything and that gets to be a bore.
Understand.
I've just seen many people who thought they were irreplaceable get pushed out the door. Most of them got replaced due to their "I'm the best you've got" attitude. Sure, they were very good, and they knew it. The problem was they made sure everyone else knew it, too. They found out real quickly just how replaceable they were.
There's a lot to be said for being humble, especially in today's job market. | |
|
| I don't think one needs to be humble, even in today's market. What one need is an accurate assessment of their position. Ego is valued, ego and greed drive economic success.
For those that you stated, what they failed in that they do not live up to their self image and therefore, the cost in obtaining replacement become attractive to the employer relative to their demand.
Employers are still willing to pay a premium for qualify employee. It is just that most system admin etc do not realize that their knowledge of the companies network etc are easily transferred.
It is a balance act, you have to know your worth, let ppl know your worth, and that valuation better be accurate to you and to the employer. If they do not agree, the cost is cheaper to replace and deal with the associated cost in recruitment and training than to retain you.
Sell your self to the employer, but don't sell yourself to YOU to the point where it cloud your vision and believe you are more than what you are.
edit: to sum up my argument, the higher up you go, the more expensive it is to replace you. the cert entry position, cheap. | |
| me? I dunno... 2004-05-28, 8:43 pm |
| people who have been taught to think of themselves in terms of pawns on a cheesboard instead of links in a chain will remain just that... pawns.
pawns are weak links.
strong organizations dont need weak links.
keep the strong links, toss the pawns...
chains need not run vertically.
rooms full of strong links brainstorming have certainly produced some of the worlds greatest advances.
and won and lost wars
you want a cert that is guarranteed to pay in the near future? learn to weld. or millwright, or pipefit... there is a shortage, particularly of metal tradesmen in the world, at least the western world (including europe) that will probably continue for the next decade or two. tradesmen can make 6 figures working with their hands these days.
not to mention that you will also be in good enough shape to kick the sh*t out of the average camper
just a thought... | |
| onoski 2004-05-29, 7:07 am |
| Whilst I'd agree with some of the arguements that has been posted here I'd disagree with 70% of what's been stated.
Firstly, nobody is indispensable regardless of qualification, experience, degree or certs. What makes an individual a contributor to a firm is that individuals determination and problem solving skills and team effort spirit.
I have noticed too many post from arrogant ppls on this site especially with the likes of those that always have an answer or always opposing the views of others posted here.
I am more than qualified for my current role as an IT support officer overseeing a wide range of servers, network switches, hubs, and Oracle database plus other bespoke applications. But at the seem time I am privileged to be in this role. Everyone has different career aspirations etc.
However, I am very pleased with my job as I see this as a challenge and a means to equiping myself for the near future.
Technology is an evolving sector and it is only there to help businesses push their resources and man power to ensure a profitable return. If you see technology as an egolistic thing then your in for a big surprise. I wonder when all those in I.T would stop to see themselves as those that are saving the earth or some kind of a special species.
Nuff said as I would not contribute to this thread any more. Remember your not indispensable regardless likewise myself thats what I'd leave with you to ponder upon.
As someone earlier on rightly said ppl get fired, made redundant or they simpply move on to other jobs and or roles. I have noticed a lot on ppl on this site that think because they are a sys admin think they are all that but where are they today on this board? | |
| stnosc 2004-05-29, 8:57 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
It is a balance act, you have to know your worth, let ppl know your worth, and that valuation better be accurate to you and to the employer.
I don't disagree with that. However, you let others see your worth by your actions, and not by your ego. You can be humble in your attitude and at the same time let your employer see your value by the quality of your performance and not by the quantity of words from your mouth.
By the way, not all of us with "cheap entry-level certs" are working at entry level positions. Some of us who don't have the CCIE or B.S. degrees (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science) can actually spell, think, and work as technicians, administrators, and engineers! | |
| HOOLIGAN 2004-05-29, 11:12 am |
| This thread is going off on a tangent.
But good points none the less.
From what I understand of the evolution of Pro Certs was they started 15 years ago as an in-house grading solution for Novel, which was extended to Novel approved service providers. This was copied by Cisco and MS.
I dont think they were intended at first as requirements to enter the IT field. What changed was the huge need for IT personel that could not be filled by BS graduates and that MS,Cisco,Novel etc realised they could make money from them. This brought about the birth of Comptia and all those MCSE boot camps promising top jobs with no experience.
My company requires up to get certs. ie if we have so many CCNA/NP/IE's we get a rating from Cisco ( gold, silver etc ), so we can get some leverage in bidding for contracts. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2004-05-29, 11:36 am |
| . |
|
|
|
|