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India Steals Job From Us
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| Study_tx 2003-08-30, 12:33 am |
| During last year , over 1 million jobs move to India . 4.3 million jobs ,That's the number of U.S jobs expected to be lost overseas by 2015 according to a recent report by Forrester Research.
In late 2002, computer giant Oracle announced that it would double its workforce in India. Texas Instruments already employs over 2,000 engineers at a Bangalore campus, and has made plans for a much bigger presence in the near future. In November of 2002, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates announced that the company will be making investments of approximately $500 million in India.
And, It's not just technology jobs that have ended up in India. Charles Schwab recently moved part of its information technology division to a contractor in Bangalore, India. AOL already has a large presence in India. American Express and British Airways have ramped up their employment in the country during the past year as well.
FRONTLINE WORLD reported last year that over half of Fortune 500 companies have moved jobs offshore, including famous names from many fields: Oracle, Dell, HSBC, Delta Air Lines, Novartis, J.P. Morgan Chase, Hewlett-Packard, American Express, British Airways. More are expected to follow.
We American people need a good president that tell to these companies ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
WE NEED A PRESIDENT THAT CARE ABOUT US NOT CARE ABOUT THE INTERSET OF HIS RICH FRIENDS.
We need a bill that requires for every American company to have at least 85% of it work force must be either American or US legal resident. Because we are the one who pay taxes not the Indians. | |
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| that is true and bush is not doing anything about it. all he is concerned about is going to war. he is probably the only president who made USA go into 2 wars in one term, also one war had no cause, the other was plain revenge.
by the way we never caught the bad guys we just decalred the victory. | |
| Study_tx 2003-08-30, 1:39 am |
| SVR1
We are right, I hope all american see that reality, our nation is going toward devestation.I hope in 2004 we elect a president that care about us.
Mr bush decleared the war to Iraq in order to Steal their OIL. I hoped if he delear the war against the Corporate America that steal over 1 Million of job from US and move it to India.Corporates America are our real enmy. | |
| Tarzanboy 2003-08-30, 2:31 am |
| This is probably before your time, but before NAFTA was signed there was a huge concern that American jobs would be lost, the economy would be crushed and all of the jobs would go to Mexico. Last I checked, I am employed and the economy is still the largest in the world.
I'm curious what you propose the President of the US is supposed to do about creating new laws. Last I checked, the President does not create laws, the US Congress does. Since there hasn't been any publicity as to a bill of this nature being passed, more or less vetoed, that kind of limits the blame down a bit. The fact that a bill of this nature hasn't even been submitted tells more of a story.
Rather than wait for the next election, perhaps you should think about who you voted for in Congress and voice your concerns to him/her. If you manage to garner enough support, or the Representative/Senator thinks it is a viable idea, they may present it.
On the other hand, you can sit in your computer chair, blame the President and know that nothing will change, because he's and whoever ends up replacing him is but a convienent goat for the nation and not the root cause.
Cheers,
TB | |
| blackwidow 2003-08-30, 4:47 am |
| The reality of world markets is complicated to say the least. The dollar flows to the most efficient and profitable avenue. That's what makes the US economy the strongest.
For every job taken overseas, the net growth of the nation still climbs each year. Always has since the depression, and will continue unless total focus is lost.
Before gold shines with all its glory, it takes a lot of heat to become real gold.
Let all the cheap jobs go elsewhere, and let all the 200,000$/yr jobs go to USA.
That's a great thing.  | |
| BlokWatch 2003-08-30, 10:25 am |
| So you people would have the president try to force the companies for follow his wishes? Why don't we just become communist and let the gov't control everything? | |
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| the president does have influence over these things. also the congress could be presured by the president to do these things. | |
| Tarzanboy 2003-08-30, 10:55 pm |
| I am a bit confused as to what you are trying to say.
Are you trying to say that you, a "taxpaying voter" who decides who actually represents you, has less say in what your Representative/Senator says and does than the President?
or
Are you trying to say that you're an idealist that believes that the President has actual power and authority over the laws of the nation and that changing that individual changes everything about the United States, especially the economy?
Honestly, if you feel so strongly on the issue, make it an issue with your Representative/Senator. Be proactive in your civic duties and don't wait until an election. Call/write your congressional members, start a petition, but do something aside from playing the political "pass the buck" game.
Cheers,
TB | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-08-30, 11:24 pm |
| What I don't understand is that this same thing they are complaining about has been happening for years yet none of them mention how Clinton or any previous admin didn't do anything to stop it. Its not the goverments job to butt into this, if everyone has a problem with it then people need to go after the companies themselves. Boycott their products or whatever. Just don't make more goverment regulation thats the worse thing we could do. Ahh, but then again it's sooooo much easier to balme, complain and XXXXX then it is to actually do somthing about a problem. | |
| Mauwakee 2003-08-31, 11:17 am |
| Why should they not leave? Labor here is expensive. While if you go over seas you can get the same quality of work at slave labor. This kind of practice has been going on for years. It just now starting with IT fields. Yes, it makes me mad but there is nothing anyone can do about it. As long as the IT field does not included weapons technology or developed, then the government will not do a thing about it. | |
| mindmesh 2003-08-31, 11:30 am |
| I agree with ChrisDfer. If you don't like it boycott. Stop buying Oracle, Microsoft, and AOL products. We are their biggest markets or atleast the one that makes them the most money. Stop supporting their products and start talking management out of using their products. Thats the best way to get results.
Also, the Senate is where trade restrictions/tarrifs are handled. They make that decision. Write to your local senator and encourage others to do the same. Again, I agree with ChrisDfer. The last thing we need is for more trade restrictions. That will hurt our economy more then it will help. The more rules a company has to follow the harder it is for that company to turn a profit. Which means less taxes and less US employment.
Start your own business. Create your own Job. Then you'll be beging the government to allow jobs overseas. Your right the situation sucks but that is no reason to stifle the US economy. Find another field, re-educate yourself or further your education in the field, or create your own job.
I'm not happy about the jobs leaving.. It's depressing but would you rather pay someone $60K per year or 20K for the same quality of work? Smart business decisions. My personal opinion is not to buy their products and make your campaign public so that others know about it. Make a big stink and someone will do something.
Good Luck | |
| BlokWatch 2003-08-31, 2:13 pm |
| Agree 100% (as far the opinions of Chris and Mindmesh anyhow):
Ultimately the decision is in the hands of the consumer regardless of industry. Higher wages == higher consumer cost. How many people actually pay $50 for the american made set of wrenches when the Chinese import is $9.99 at Walmart. Practice what you preach if you feel that strongly. | |
| blackwidow 2003-08-31, 3:30 pm |
| The market forces of world economy are so amazingly complicated and such variables inherent, that any one action (such as boycott) may seem a great idea on paper, but I can attest to the fact that even most of the MBA graduates, PhD's in business, stock market analysts, CEO's etc etc can at best do a good guesstimate at why things happen the way they do.
One thing that in the last 120 years has made the US economy a world leader and the dollar a worldwide barometer of wealth, is the free enterprise system (it's not totally free but better than the rest of the world). Government only does as much as may seem necessary, but largely the "invisible hand" (as Adam Smith stated in his essays written a long time ago) corrects most the market deficiencies.
It is a perception that good jobs are lost to poorer nations because companies have to pay less. Only partly true imo. The net benefit to the economy is greater than the net loss of jobs. Paying less to workers does save money to a lot of companies, but then it also increases the net profits of the same companies, and USA did not become a superpower by giving those profits to countries where the jobs went. Where do you think the extra profits get ploughed back?
I know there's many sides to the world economy equation, so i won't go into full blown graduate school thesis on it. But after years of study and experience, I can only guess that tomorrow (next trading day) DOW Jones average on NYSE will rise.
Or fall.
Maybe.
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| Study_tx 2003-08-31, 5:11 pm |
| I agree with mindmesh
But one thing most of us forget about it or ignore.
These jobs that move to India has terrrible impact on us not only Economically but also on polical side.
Does anybody really want Indians in 50 years from now, the 3 the educated citizens,industrial, and economical, and it population will be over 1.7 Billion, with Nuke weopons, sooner or laster India will be hungry for OIL to feed it firms, and companies.
India has 2 biggest Army in world after china | |
| mindmesh 2003-08-31, 5:25 pm |
| I don't think we have to worry too much about India's economy hurting ours. They are to socialist. It can take years to get a simple business permit. This is why large companies go there because they have the money and resources to push these things along.. Now Hong Kong (China) has the potential to do us some economic harm, kind of.
China has done wonders in incorporating their communist beliefs into the open market but they basically have a slave class. They don't do much to take care of their people in main land. Now if Hong Kong was still in the hands of the Brits, they would have an economy about as strong as the US's with the US and British military might at their back. Hong Kong has little restriction on businesses. They basically have an enter at your own risk mentallity. It works.
The US puts too many restrictions on companies. Some cases it helped.. Look at Telecom. De-regulation is both good and bad. Large companies like Verizon are made to sell services to their competitors. Thats like Redhat asking Microsoft for support. On the other hand its made prices drop in certain areas and remain stable in others. Cable companies still have a monopoly going on. I can still only get Comcast in my area and they only sell digital cable for about $100 per month.. Who the hell can afford that? I can't especially since my jobs going to India..
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| blackwidow 2003-09-01, 3:02 am |
| quote:
I don't think we have to worry too much about India's economy hurting ours. They are to socialist. It can take years to get a simple business permit. This is why large companies go there because they have the money and resources to push these things along.. Now Hong Kong (China) has the potential to do us some economic harm, kind of.
Large companies go to India, China etc because labor is cheaper than in USA, where most people who suddenly get a degree or become certified ( ) start to expect wonders and get the next 120K/year job. There are threads upon threads in this forum on braindumping etc (which i am mentioning here because i have said in response that another factor that drives the practice is insecurity)..
getting back to subject, Companies do not move to other places because they have resources to move things along, but mainly because places like India/China provides them with some kick-XXX talent for less than half the money for comparable work in USA. The IT market of India is booming and making a killing, so much that Mr. Gates has gone and recruited talent from there (and does each year...hand picked MS employees..it's documented in many magazines). China talent in science and technology is probably at par with USA (but doesn't get flaunted because of communism). Bottom line is, India and China are two countries with combined about 40% of world population, and a vast pool of technical talent to pick from at low costs (which in their local currency is at par with their own living standards). It is this that drives jobs elsewhere.
In the next 10-15 years, the IT market is guaranteed to take a hit from India and China (and maybe a few other countries which are catering to high tech talent now). In my estimation, USA workers (especially in IT from what i witness each day) are digging a deeper hole. The solution is not to blame outward but to correct the perception of work inwards. In 1993, none of you had heard of computer certs. Today, 10 years later, there's a complain of too many certs. In 2013, It will probably be "Why are there so many outsiders working in these jobs in USA?".. or something similar.
I say.. today's perceptions (especially in IT) will go a loooonnnnngggggg way in making sure all get a fair shake. But I am so utterly discouraged with the thoughts of so many in IT today (this forum, work life, friends in IT) about high tech work and job perceptions, that i myself have started to diversify my own knowledge pool and seek leverages against different kind of work in different fields. I am a young guy, and cannot afford 10 years from now of being obsoleted because of bickering that I see today. Today seemed so far off 10 years ago, but here it is.
Hence, to summarize, my points were that cheaper, but mostly talented labor in high tech work, drives some companies overseas. And perceptions of work in USA should change otherwise I see downturns for even the most committed and talented US workers today. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-09-01, 12:01 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Study_tx
During last year , over 1 million jobs move to India . 4.3 million jobs ,That's the number of U.S jobs expected to be lost overseas by 2015 according to a recent report by Forrester Research.
Where do you draw the line, do you want to close the Walmart owned sweatshops down in Latin America also, work for $5 a day or spend three times as much buying clothes? | |
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| azimuth40 2003-09-01, 5:10 pm |
| quote:
In 1993, none of you had heard of computer certs. Today, 10 years later, there's a complain of too many certs.
Ahh, there's that hint of fatherly or at least miopic arrogance again.
1993? There were computer certs in 1983 and 1973 there was just no online testing with companies like VUE and Prometric. You went to class had hands on training and hands on testing. All the companies IBM, Burroughs, Sperry, DEC, Freiden, Bull etc. had certs. There were just less computers and a smaller market and no online forums for people to b1tch and spread doom and gloom.
The cycle that is occuring now has been seen for the second even third time by some of us. You evolve and survive or leave the playground.
Ask programmers about cycles, theirs are much shorter and always with doom and gloom. The only ones that did not evolve and got a second chance were cobol programmers because of Y2K. In my career I have learned a dozen or more languages. I only took fortran as a math course as an undergrad because it was supposed to be useful for hardware types (and was a requirement). There is always one more around the corner because someone is pushing it and says learn it or die, C# anyone.
I see speed as the issue. Outsourcing will create its own overhead to the point where it can't evolve as fast as homegrown talent and then the bubble will expand again. There are already reports that companies in India can't keep people because of the stress of the job. The workers are getting out and going to other jobs. When they can't train replacements fast enough they will meet their own dotcom bubble burst. | |
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| the best way to solve this problem is to break down huge companies. for example IT is dominated by 10 companies, supermarket is also dominated by 5, gas is dominated by 6, and others are also dominated. if we could break up these monopolisation we could have more jobs and better prices. | |
| thebonzodog 2003-09-01, 7:43 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by SVR1
the best way to solve this problem is to break down huge companies. for example IT is dominated by 10 companies, supermarket is also dominated by 5, gas is dominated by 6, and others are also dominated. if we could break up these monopolisation we could have more jobs and better prices.
ROFL!
How on Earth do you work that one out?
The need for ever lower prices drives the shift to globalisation. If it was cheaper in the US it would be kept in the US. Simple economic fact. Breaking up the monopolies would not lead to cheaper prices. It may well lead to more jobs, but not cheaper prices.
And what drives the need for ever lower prices? Consumer demand. If you want to stop it, talk with your wallet. Buy locally produced stuff where at all possible, and make your opinion heard where it matters.
While I'm here, India hasn't stolen anything. America has given it away. | |
| gingera 2003-09-01, 9:34 pm |
| the whole problem lies with on whose side u look at the situation from.
If i am a business owner, obviously i wanna push the cost (and that include labour wage) as low as possible.
on the other hand, If i am a worker, i wanna be paid as HIGH as possible.
IT advancement had eliminated the geographical restriction that protected many jobs.A software can be easily sent at the click of a mouse and be received almost instantly at the other end of the globe, making the work location of the programmers irrelevant. Such is the case for many IT jobs, remote access anyone?
I was discussing with a friend of mine... he made a very insightful statement. The shift is not about them being more hardworking or the company is trying to break into new markets. It is all about $$$. In general case, a foreign worker is NOT as productive or experienced as a native worker. However, if i can employ 10 foreign workers with a native's salary, as even if his productivity only matches 70% of the native's it more than well justified the shift. (even if they needa employ TWO of them to match your capability, it is still cheaper)
The only way to get out of this is to be as indispensible as possible. Or move into an area where the knowledge is not as easily picked up.
ok... knowing what to do is the easy part... I am still thinking on HOW to do it.  | |
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| i would rather pay higher prices rather than be unemployed. it will also lead to lower taxes because the government wouldn't have to waste lots of money on the unemployed. | |
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| Ahhh SVR1 - very noble sentiments grasshopper, however as mentioned there are many differing reasons for the predicament we are in.
Yes consumers are ALWAYS looking for a bargain and that does tend to drive prices down. However the problem in our industry is that those in the ivory towers want obscene sized company profits so their share options are more valuable and the shares they hold are worth more. A lot of these guys are looking at how the industry performed in its golden periods and using those figures as benchmarks, rather than the figures used worldwide in other areas.
Another factor are all of those very highly paid college graduates (no disrespect to those who are reasonable thinking people with degrees) who have been brought up with airy fairy ideas on how things should be, but sweet f'all common sense or experience (the kind of drongos who brought us 'psychometrics and adaptive testing). Usually their motivation is to improve the bottom line at wherever possible and bugger the consequences. Usually what happens is that these guys save a certain percent and then get a portion of that back as bonuses for their great efforts.
The day will come when there are so many unemployed out there who can not afford new computers, can not afford expensive financial services, can not afford a car and probably can not afford anything other than a basic level of substainance. When that happens either these short sighted companies will bring jobs back to the states or will just close down. To think that they will find other market places to sell their products is very naiive as one only has to look at other countries where there is a good level of consumerism and one will find a couple things. 1 - these places are usually hotbeds for piracy and copyright infringements and 2 - they tend to do something that would really aid the average American ... The buy local made products where possible. | |
| mindmesh 2003-09-02, 10:55 am |
| quote:
Large companies go to India, China etc because labor is cheaper than in USA, where most people who suddenly get a degree or become certified ( ) start to expect wonders and get the next 120K/year job
Big companies do move because they have the resources. I mean they don't say "We have an extra $10 Million lying around lets move to India." they say we have "$10 Million dollars to work with. A move to India will save us about $10 Million dollars a year." It's not as easy as some may think to move operations overseas. It take some resources to do so. | |
| yanqui 2003-09-02, 2:45 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by SVR1
i would rather pay higher prices rather than be unemployed. it will also lead to lower taxes because the government wouldn't have to waste lots of money on the unemployed.
That's an interesting viewpoint. I keep hearing that WalMart is driving out the Mom and Pop stores, but the last I knew WalMart didn't have the power to do that--only shoppers can do that. You are obviously in the minority, if you're willing to pay higher prices than save jobs. Mom and Pop stores go out of business precisely because most people aren't willing to pay a couple of dollars more for a set of bedsheets or a hammer.
Remember "Atlas Shrugged?" There was a point in the book where the government put a benchmark restriction on every business and individual. Every business had to produce and consume exactly as much labor and material as the previous year, and every individual had to spend exactly as much as they did the previous year. Of course that's ludicrous, but suggesting that "government should do something" to keep businesses from starting operations elsewhere in the world is just a ludicrous. An enterprise exists to make a profit. NOT to provide jobs, NOT to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, NOT to alleviate world suffering. If they are able and willing to do those other things, great--but the goal of a business is to make a profit. PEriod. For government to step in and say you can do that only in our country's borders is isolationist in the extreme. Nobody has a right to a job. Jobs exist at the whim of the market, and that's a reality. Me, I'm learing to grow my own food and store it in jars and bottles in case some day I don't have a job. We live in an uncertain world and there's nothing any government can do about it, and any government that claims it can is lying. | |
| Papiya 2003-09-03, 2:57 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Study_tx
During last year , over 1 million jobs move to India . 4.3 million jobs ,That's the number of U.S jobs expected to be lost overseas by 2015 according to a recent report by Forrester Research.
In late 2002, computer giant Oracle announced that it would double its workforce in India. Texas Instruments already employs over 2,000 engineers at a Bangalore campus, and has made plans for a much bigger presence in the near future. In November of 2002, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates announced that the company will be making investments of approximately $500 million in India.
And, It's not just technology jobs that have ended up in India. Charles Schwab recently moved part of its information technology division to a contractor in Bangalore, India. AOL already has a large presence in India. American Express and British Airways have ramped up their employment in the country during the past year as well.
FRONTLINE WORLD reported last year that over half of Fortune 500 companies have moved jobs offshore, including famous names from many fields: Oracle, Dell, HSBC, Delta Air Lines, Novartis, J.P. Morgan Chase, Hewlett-Packard, American Express, British Airways. More are expected to follow.
We American people need a good president that tell to these companies ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
WE NEED A PRESIDENT THAT CARE ABOUT US NOT CARE ABOUT THE INTERSET OF HIS RICH FRIENDS.
We need a bill that requires for every American company to have at least 85% of it work force must be either American or US legal resident. Because we are the one who pay taxes not the Indians.
I don't see a problem here.  | |
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| Not getting into this debate but sad to say that the company I work for has just contracted out to companies in India for some of our print work. This a major book publisher. Since it will cut operating expenses in half, they look at the dollar not the impact on anything else.
I could quit and try finding another job but then my ecomonic position would be bad. Although I don't like the decisions that are made, I still must feed my family and keep a roof over my head.
I am sure I will be flamed for my position on this but why debate something that I cannot control here.
I don't get into politics here because this is a tech forum and if I wanted to debate politics I would do so somewhere else.
I realize this does affect lots of IT folks but I don't care to discuss my views here.
At least I am not homeless and living under I-4. (yet) | |
| thebonzodog 2003-09-03, 4:09 pm |
| You have said nothing that should get you flamed.
Imagine you buy your coal from one guy who lives down the road for £50.
Then somebody else in another town starts selling it for £30.
Both deliver it to your door.
Naturally, you switch suppliers.
That's the short view anyway. Business is all about the short view these days.
The long view says you stick with the guy near to you, because when you really, really need that coal, you won't be able to reach the guy from the other town anyway.
Think about that on your next trip to the superstore! | |
| Papiya 2003-09-04, 7:45 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mindmesh
Hmmmm... I wonder why??/ 
LOL!!! | |
| mindmesh 2003-09-04, 11:17 am |
| The way I look at this situation is that eventually the jobs come back. Nothing leaves forever and even though the companies are sending work to india the profits stay here and most of the taxes as well. Kind of sucks to see the Network market in such bad shape and the only real stablizer in the IT market was Programming. Hmmm.. I think I'm going to be going in to Geriatric care for the next 10 - 20 years. By then most of the baby boomers will b gone and then I'll need another new job. | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-09, 12:13 pm |
| Guys
We should vote democrate in 2004.
Republican careless about us they care about they rich friends that invest in other countries such as India. | |
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| you only get trouble from the Rep. i mean they went to war and distroyed every thing then they say they cann't afford to fix it.
blame it on sadam. | |
| tnath6 2003-09-24, 1:25 pm |
| As an Indian we are very sorry for u all American.
Though it is true that many guys in India, are getting job in call centers these days but they are also doing their hardwork as they have to stay awake in the night. | |
| ANDRONDA 2003-09-24, 6:19 pm |
| There seems to be a dichotomy working in the US. We want two things that are not compatible: cheap consumer goods and job security/high wages.
If we want to become like Europe and become economic protectionists then expect to pay more for all the things that you are used to paying a pittance for today. | |
| rathore 2003-09-24, 7:11 pm |
| Wellll Welll Welll.. atlast u guys opened ur eyes, but may bits lil late any way ..ur not the only one who r suffering from this prob. we people in middle east are also facing the face prob.India is pumping soo much cheap labor in market which makes companies think twice why pay a local guy $$$$$ when the indian will ask only $$$  , any way the middle east countries made a law that private companies must employe %(i dunno the exact%) citizens or else they will be fined...i guess in few years your goverment will also follow the same rule, if u'll not act now.  | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-24, 7:27 pm |
| It's not much of a secret that the American economy has been a catastrophe for the entire course of the Bush administration. What seems to be an open secret is the fact that economic policies embraced by Bush.
The year and a half prior to 9/11 saw the loss of 1.6 million American jobs. The six months following 9/11 saw the loss of an additional 2.5 million American jobs. Obviously, Americans are right in thinking they have a lot to fear; but the truth is that they have far more to fear than they have yet come to realize. That's because millions and millions and millions of additional American jobs are going to be lost in the decade ahead, particularly better-paying jobs. And that's due to the process euphemistically known as "globalization".
rathore , u are right, we should have the same policy as in Kuwait, We should have 90% of th work force Americans or Resident not International | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-24, 7:30 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Papiya
LOL!!!
U should worry cause the next president of USA he ll be against stealing job from America. | |
| MistyRing 2003-09-25, 7:35 am |
| India isn't stealing jobs from the US. US corporations are stealing jobs from the US. | |
| heuristic 2003-09-25, 7:44 am |
| There has been a lot of debate over in the UK about loss of jobs to India etc... And while IT'ers may grumble about being hard done by, these were the same people who were raking it in a few years back, present company possibly excepted. What I get annoyed about are these companies who still advertise saying, you can earn £50,000 in IT tomorrow if you spend £3,000 on a 2 day course or some such rubbish!!! Thereby perpetuating the illusion that IT is still in a skills shortage. I keep reading in the trade mags that we are, but the job adverts don't reflect it. People in IT are scared and in secure, but cross training is the key, improve those soft skills and get out of the server room and network.
As for Indians nicking the jobs.... good luck to them if they are professional and can do the work aswell as anyone else - its called a free market remember.
And on that note I'd better get some work done before I get sacked. | |
| ANDRONDA 2003-09-25, 3:32 pm |
| quote:
[i] As for Indians nicking the jobs.... good luck to them if they are professional and can do the work aswell as anyone else - its called a free market remember. [/B]
One of the smartest comments to date on the topic.
I can't get over this concept of "stealing a job." No one "steals" a job. When someone decides that it is on their best economic interest to do so, they attempt to drive cost out of a product or service. If the Indians are getting the job done and taking less to do so then they deserve the job.
If you want a job either be able to DO something that others cannot easily do or do something that everyone CAN DO for less. That’s simple economic theory. Unfortunately in the US there is a sense of entitlement. | |
| tnath6 2003-09-28, 11:32 am |
| Well, said ANDRONDA
My cousin is working in a call center. He is getting Rs 10,500 per month. He is happy with that money.
$1 = Rs 47.5(approx).
Therefore he is getting $ 221 approx per month. For that he has to do his job during the night, for the time difference.
India loves America. Remember how we welcomed Mr Bill Clinton, in India when he was President of United States.
I had a dream when I was kid, to be at the rooftop of WTC. But my dream shattered in Sept 11.
America loves to help Pakistan with or without knowing Pakistan is the 'mother of terrorist'. Pakistanis love to kill innocent Kasmiris in India. For that we in turn have to help ourselves by investing more money in Defense rather than Industries.
Therefore English speaking young graduates find it very easy to get jobs in Call center working for the US in night rather than getting jobs in any Indian Industry. These are all the negative effects for India to invest more in Defense rather than Industries or companies.
I am not saying this is the only reason behind all this, but definitely this is one of them.
These jobless young graduates need a job to feed them and if they find any well-paid job, I don't find any wrong behind this. | |
| azimuth40 2003-09-28, 3:43 pm |
| Interesting comment. That money would not even pay my natural gas and electric bill and they are getting university graduates for that. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-09-29, 5:26 am |
| Ok I am moving to India. I been to Indiana how much different can India be? They are practically spelled the same. | |
| Study_tx 2003-09-30, 2:47 am |
| tnath6
India must worry cause the next president of USA he ll prevent India from stilling our jobs.
NEXT PRESIDENT HE LL DECLARE WAR AGAINST THESE COMPANIES WHO INVEST IN India instead of USA | |
| rathore 2003-09-30, 4:09 am |
| tnath6 : its better if u stick to the topic rather then just ABUSE Pakistan & thats wat r u people doing for the last 50+ years all u see is PAKISTAN nothing else. who were the 1st to start arms+ neculear arm race? India after that only Pakistan conducted it own test, so saying that Pakistan is a mother of terrorist is totally baseless & untrue. 3000+ muslims killed by militant radical hindus, Perist burned alive along with his sons, churchs set on fire, every state of India hav a rebel(freedom movement). Kashmiries want freedom its the right of every human being to live is peace & freedon & i guess ur totally unaware of History, let me remind you that it was ur leader Nehru who agreed that the elections will be held & Kashmiries will b the one who is deceide, but that neva happened, ur the one who didnt follow UN resolutions on Kashmir, their is Half a million Indian troops in kashmir & are still blaming Pakistan for terrorist activies what about terrorist activies carried out by ur troops i dont want 2 go into detail but it will b better if u keep politics & religion out. | |
| rathore 2003-09-30, 5:25 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by rathore
tnath6 : its better if u stick to the topic rather then just ABUSE Pakistan & thats wat u people r doing for the last 50+ years all u see is PAKISTAN. who were the 1st to start arms+ neculear arm race? India after that only Pakistan conducted it own test, so saying that Pakistan is a mother of terrorist is totally baseless & untrue. 3000+ muslims killed by militant radical hindus, Perist burned alive along with his sons, churchs set on fire, every state of India hav a rebel(freedom movement). Kashmiries want freedom its the right of every human being to live is peace & freedon & i guess ur totally unaware of History, let me remind you that it was ur leader Nehru who agreed that the elections will be held & Kashmiries will b the one who is deceide, but that neva happened, ur the one who didnt follow UN resolutions on Kashmir, their is Half a million Indian troops in kashmir & are still blaming Pakistan for terrorist activies what about terrorist activies carried out by ur troops i dont want 2 go into detail but it will b better if u keep politics & religion out.
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| tnath6 2003-10-03, 5:46 am |
| Mr Rathore, you need some knowledge about Kashmiris.
This Kashmiris are being killed by pakistani sponsered terrorist. During post Independence there were millions of Hindu Kashmiri Pundits in Kashmir, who were not good fighters to save themselves from these terrorists. They were either killed or they fled.
Now very few Pundit families leave there.
Those Muslims who now lives in Kashmir, most of them wants to stay with India rather then undemocratic country like Pakistan. U decide why I am saying this.
Its because Pakistan is now mostly ruled by Gen. Musharaf. Their Prime Minister is just acting PM or show off.
Muslims in Kashmiris were also killed.
If u wants to go with History, u should go with details "whole Pakistan was under India once". | |
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| tnath6 - I have an Indian friend and a Pakistani friend who are always arguing over this. One night after I whupped them both around the ears to knock some sense into them we sat down and discussed this issue. It was agreed that both sides were equally at fault and that if there was some true dialogue instaed of all of the chest beating then perhaps there would be peace.
There is a term used in the states for the kind of behaviour shown by your peoples. I can not exactly remember it, but 'the Hatfields and the McCoys' kind of describes it. Don't worry, the Irish have the same damn thing with the grange and the green
 | |
| Papiya 2003-10-03, 7:50 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by RussS
tnath6 - I have an Indian friend and a Pakistani friend who are always arguing over this. One night after I whupped them both around the ears to knock some sense into them we sat down and discussed this issue. It was agreed that both sides were equally at fault and that if there was some true dialogue instaed of all of the chest beating then perhaps there would be peace.
There is a term used in the states for the kind of behaviour shown by your peoples. I can not exactly remember it, but 'the Hatfields and the McCoys' kind of describes it. Don't worry, the Irish have the same damn thing with the grange and the green
It's not just our people . . . the Palestinians and Israelis do it as well, as do the Irish and British and the Americans and Iraqis. As long as there is someone else to blame for any torubles that can be had, there is no need to improve things at home. | |
| tnath6 2003-10-03, 12:51 pm |
| Papiya is correct.
When peace process is going on in USA, Pakistan test fired Hatf-III recently.
For further News on it please go to this page http://in.rediff.com/news/2003/oct/03pak.htm
Bravo pakistani people bravo, Pakistan again proved their terrorist mind. Just judge with an open mind "Mr Rathore" is it sensible at this point of time. Now to safeguard India will definetely test fire some of her missiles.
We should stop all stop this. | |
| bearing 2003-10-03, 1:59 pm |
| Do you know something, all these troubles in the world that have been mentioned here can all be traced back to......
Wait for it.....
Britain.
So if anyone's to blame then it's enforcer.
Seriously though, if it hadn't been for the British Empire do you think all these troubles would be happening? | |
| mindmesh 2003-10-03, 2:20 pm |
| I don't blame Britian, although thats a nice change of pace from blaming the US. The only thing to blame is Human Nature. We are confrontational by nature. | |
| jimbo2002 2003-10-03, 3:00 pm |
| The world is run by accountants, the money men have more control over our destiny than any politician. Its a fact of life that any responsible business will keep an eye on the bottom line, and if it costs 2 dollars an hour to make a product in India and ten dollars an hour in the states or wherever, then you can see the temptation. We just have to work better, work smarter and perhaps lower our expectations a little and not let the marketing men dictate how much we should spend on the have it all now lifestyle. | |
| rathore 2003-10-03, 4:29 pm |
| tnath6: O yeah we test fired HAFT-III. its better then to lick the feet of Israel & beg them for the Eqpt., secondly Indians were the 1st 2 start arm in the south asia we jus replied in a same manner TIT 4 TAT & i'm sure this will continue unless leaders from India accept of dialogue offer given by President Musharaf in his speech in UN. We are not killing Kashmiries we dont hav 70000+ troops stationed in Indian Held kashmir. You called Pakistan terrorist & even published the link, but u forgoet that 2 Pakistani Soldiers died & another 2 injured while flushing out OUTSIDER(AL-QAEEDA) members(non of them was Pakistani), now the world must know that WE MEAN BUSINESS & WE WILL FIGHT TERRORISM AT ANY COST. but wat eva is going on in Kashmir is a FREEDOM movement you cant compare that with terror, every human being hav the rite 2 live the way they want to, but the terrosim we are fighting is nothing compared to the STATE RUN TERRORISM carried out by the goverment in there own parts. India test fired numbers of its PIRTHI Ver.++++++ b4 we test fired . but as soon as we test fire we r blamed for escalation.. now thats really FUNNY . If India is really interested why dont you let UN in Kashmir? what about the UN resolution on Kashmir? think about it....
PEACE FOR ALL | |
| tnath6 2003-10-04, 5:53 am |
| Mr Rathore always says that we Indian have stationed some millions or less in Kashmir and can't combat terrorism.
My friend Mr Rathore, I tell U something that "Terrorism does not require how much men Terrorist people have in their side, they only require some surprise attack, suicidal Attack and much more than that."
Remember what Terrorist did on Sept 11. Do you think there was scurity hole in part of USA. My goodness how could any human being even think of it. Terrorist made both Suicidal and surprise attack.
I don't know if there are anything more than that and I am sure "YOU KNOW MUCH BETTER" what it requires to be a TERRORIST. | |
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| jimbo2002 2003-10-19, 3:32 pm |
| Probably working for peanuts. ( Iknow. I know but someone would have said it sooner or later) !! | |
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| Guys,
It is all started to happen now. US can try to control other part of the globe. But not atleast India and China. You got what I meant right. It is not that India is calling everyone. Since India is having English speaking engineers and also the pay is reasonable all jobs are moving to India.
Nothing to stop now. It is all because of globalization. We lost when British guys came to India and we are started gaining beacause of the same.
By 2025 India and China will be major player in global market. Sorry I am little bit harsh here..but can't do anything.
Leave all politics.... and concentrate on ...
Regards
Vinny | |
| Supertech 2003-11-11, 3:13 pm |
| All your base are belong to us! | |
| mindmesh 2003-11-11, 3:39 pm |
| Well, I can say that his English is better then most inner city youths. | |
| jimbo2002 2003-11-11, 4:07 pm |
| Yes, about that "English speaking". | |
| MistyRing 2003-11-12, 8:05 am |
| can we run tht one through babel fish?? | |
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| HOOLIGAN 2003-11-12, 12:11 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by RussS
the Irish have the same damn thing with the grange and the green
I dont remember any Irish kids in Grange Hill?
No the whole Irish problem was started by
The English (or the Anglo-Normans as they were called then) trying to convert the Irish to Catholocism. | |
| bearing 2003-11-13, 3:58 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by HOOLIGAN
No the whole Irish problem was started by
The English (or the Anglo-Normans as they were called then) trying to convert the Irish to Catholocism.
What religion were they before? | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-11-13, 7:21 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by bearing
What religion were they before?
By then, because of St Patrick they had renounced paganism and had become a Christian society. They simply followed the teachings of the Bible but did not recognise the Holy Roman Empire and the Pope (ie did not give them any Money). But to the Anglo Normans and the Pope they werent the right kind of 'Christian'. So they were Invaded. | |
| tckbloody 2003-11-14, 4:32 am |
| Let's see. Now why are mostof the jobs goin to india? Simply bc;z the labour there is cheap in cost. If u or me were the CEO of microsoft, oracle, or be it any MNC, u and i would always think in terms of increasing the output with lesser inputs. The inputs (namely infrastructure setup) in US is more. When u can get the same thing at a cheaper cost, obviously, which one would you go for?
India has been , and will continue to woo investors, no doubt guys. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-11-14, 2:46 pm |
| How about US Jobs going to Panama?
All schools in Panama will be required to teach all their subjects in English ( Maths Geography etc except obviously Spanish )
The reason they want a bilingual country? because they are after lucrative US contracts. | |
| tckbloody 2003-11-19, 2:08 am |
| comparing panama and india is like comparing the ant with the lion (pls don't ask which is the ant and which is the lion). Now lets look into the matter in a more better way. I agree India has been stealing US jobs, but what US jobs. It hasn't yet stolen the coveted post of CEO of Microsoft, Oracle,etc. etc.. Its only getting those jobs, for which more work is reqd...and at a minimal cost. And who is benefitting from this? Its not just India...Its actually more or less the US itself. Do you think US is doing this to help the Indian economy? C'mon buddy...wake up.. | |
| MistyRing 2003-11-19, 7:58 am |
| The same thing's been going on for decades. How many British manufacturing jobs were lost in in 70's & 80's when Asian countries modernised their infrastructures enough to be able to make western goods at eastern prices?
Corporates will always go where the labour is cheapest and that's just the way it is.
And good luck to those developing countries smart enough to recognise that's the way it is. | |
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| Papiya 2003-11-25, 2:08 pm |
| "Some U.S. customers have complained that the Indian technical-support representatives are difficult to communicate with because of thick accents and scripted responses."
Does this rule out Texans and New Englanders as well? | |
| mindmesh 2003-11-25, 3:07 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Papiya
"Some U.S. customers have complained that the Indian technical-support representatives are difficult to communicate with because of thick accents and scripted responses."
Does this rule out Texans and New Englanders as well?
Depends.. I have a Georgian and a New Englander that work the phones at my company and haven't had any complaints. But the other day I was speaking to tech support over in India and he made me spell every sentence I said. I couldn't believe it.
On the other side though, I've dealt with some reps that were more polite then the ones in the US, and we could understand each other fine.
I think it has to do with US citizens pressuring companies to move jobs back to the US. Which is better then government regulations mandating it. | |
| Papiya 2003-11-26, 9:01 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mindmesh
I think it has to do with US citizens pressuring companies to move jobs back to the US. Which is better then government regulations mandating it.
I agree. Government should stay out of business as much as possible. If anything, private industry could show government how to be more efficient.
And to be honest, I know a *lot* of Indians who speak English perfectly, but with unbelievably horrible accents; sometimes I have trouble understanding them myself. if they are going to be dealing with native English speakers, they had better be trained in how to talk "American", as the brand of English spoken in India is not very easy for foreigners to grasp. | |
| Papiya 2003-11-26, 9:08 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mindmesh
But the other day I was speaking to tech support over in India and he made me spell every sentence I said. I couldn't believe it.
Try this one:
Two IIT Kanpur professors were bickering about regional accents. When one Bihari professor got up to make a speech "Bhy bharchu of the authority bheshted in me ....", he was interrupted by his Malayali colleague, (A Malayali colleague = Malayaleague) who commented "What atrocious accent !". Stung, the Bihari retorted, "Bhat bil you shay ?"
"Why, I would say it 'praperly'" said the Malayali "Like 'By wertu yof the yatarity wasted in me...." .'
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanave...657/jokes2.html | |
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| dman123 2004-03-31, 3:31 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Study_tx
tnath6
India must worry cause the next president of USA he ll prevent India from stilling our jobs.
NEXT PRESIDENT HE LL DECLARE WAR AGAINST THESE COMPANIES WHO INVEST IN India instead of USA
Are you talking about Kerry?
If so, Great! He can start with his own wife, stock holdings, and corporate contributors:
http://www.thehill.com/news/030304/kerry.aspx
How about his wife talking trash about Wall-Mart but owning millions of there stock.
http://www.drudgereport.com/mattjk9.htm
Doesn't Heinz have 40% of their production overseas? Isn’t that where Kerry’s $500 Million comes from?
Please.. Kerry is no savior of outsourced jobs. In fact, he has got to have the worst hypocrisy problem of any politician in recent memory. Do you work for the DNC? A “seminar” poster perhaps? Well some of us are well informed. Have a read about his wealth, comments, and senate votes on these issues and get informed. Perhaps if US workers didn’t pay 30%-50% of their pay in state, local, and federal taxes, we could work for much less as well. That is one thing you will never here Kerry talk about.
I am in IT and am worried about this trend but this is the way the economy works. We must stay competitive. At this time, I feel I am competitive with anyone in India at least when it comes to the business, creativity, and the communication side of things.
I only have a problem with free trade when it comes to straight up communist dictatorships that put a gun to the worker’s head. India is the largest democracy and should be open to all the consequence of a booming free market such as rising living standards and salaries. They are not going to make $8/Hr forever. They may keep out unions and high taxes that will still keep them cheaper than the US.
When people in the US are given the choice, they nearly always go with price/speed/quality over where it comes from. That “E-loan” thing is a great example. People have a choice to save 2 days on their mortgage processing by having it sent to India for processing. ¾ of them chose to do send it overseas.
The only way to stop free trade of goods and services is to take choices away from the people. Now that is Dem party way! | |
| yanqui 2004-03-31, 3:42 pm |
| How deep did you have to dig to resurrect this old thread?
Mr 1-post dude. | |
| thebonzodog 2004-03-31, 3:52 pm |
| In the UK, New Labour used to employ people to be vocal on forums and phone-ins etc. I can see where they got the idea from now. |
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