| Author |
Old computers cannot recieve DHCP?
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| fatchronos 2003-07-08, 10:34 pm |
| Guys,
I have an odd problem. here at work, pretty much every computer recieves a dynamic IP.
That is of course, except for the old compuers. By old, I'm not even talking that old - two 300mhz AMD K-6 laptops, two PII 266mhz, etc.
In other words, old, but not jurassic 
We have tried everything to get these computers working, I even linked one direct to the DHCP server with a crossover cable, with no luck!
If we give them static IP's, then there is no problem with the network at all.. just can't recieve dynamic. The computers are all W2K/XP by the way.
Any suggestions for fixing this? could it be old network cards maybe, rather than the computers?
thanks | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-08, 10:59 pm |
| I just tried a new network card, with no success... | |
| Kasor 2003-07-08, 11:03 pm |
| Those Laptop are still GOOD, .. there is nothing wrong with the laptops. Remember DHCP is (NOT) buildin PC hardware.
So, yes! You are right on the target... Try to replace those NIC.
<Sorry I just found out the typo error>
fatchronos
If both of your notebook and NIC setup correctly, since one pickup the IP. Then you shall try to resolve the configuration on the SVR.
I recommend you to download the DHCP document from the MS website and see what you missing because it is the easiest way for your find out and learn. | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-08, 11:23 pm |
| Are you sure? I just tried with a new card, one that I know has recieved an IP from our DHCP's in the past, and still not work in an old computer
BTW the computers are physically on the same subnet | |
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| What are your settings under TCP/IP?
DHCP in hardware? ummmmmmm NO 
Dynamic Host Control Protocol - protocol is a dead giveaway that it is software.
quote:
DHCP - A software utility that is designed to assign Internet Protocol addresses to clients and their stations logging onto a Trabsnission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) and eliminates manual IP address assignments.
Syngress W2K study guide. | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 2:17 am |
| No settings - all auto
Its not like I don't know how to configure networking or DHCP - I'm only one test away from being MCSE and we have like 50 other DHCP clients here that work fine (that I have set up)
Its just the old computers... can't figure it out for the life of me | |
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| All auto - including DNS settings?
I am thinking that perhaps these systems just do not know where to find the DHCP server. Compare the advanced settings against a correctly configured machine - it is a very easy thing to overlook and I have done it more than once. | |
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| BTW - it is not the age of the machines.
I have a 486 in my lab running W98 (hmmm, a good job considering the minimum specs for W98) and using DHCP. | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 2:34 am |
| I know, its mystified me too
For example, that new card that i said I put in, i left EVERYTHING blank, to eliminate the possibility of other settings interfereing, and it still didnt work.
Since they do work on the network if given a static ip, is there any way you know of where you can specify a dhcp server? I know that seems a bit backwards, as the whole point of dhcp is so you don't have to specify... but it would help | |
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| DNS 
The DNS server will have the address of the DHCP server manually configured (or vicea versa - I always mix that one up). | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 2:37 am |
| So you reckon if I specify DNS servers, but not dhcp... hmmm... i will try it now | |
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| Like I said - double check the settings on a known good machine. I would almost bet that DNS is configured. | |
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| DHCP has 50 something possible scope options - how your machines pick things up depends on what is configured on the DHCP server. Most common are DNS server address, WINS server address and Name resolution node type.
The one thing I did forget to tell you was to run ipconfig.
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 2:58 am |
| I know how to use /release and /renew
I tried specifying the DNS servers (which are also our DHCP servers) on two computers, one got an ip correctly (woohoo!) but the other did not?!?!?
Also, these two computers are IDENTICAL hardware.... and software
help? | |
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| Unfortunately I am more of a handson type. Perhaps it is a corrupted TCP/IP installation - try deleting it and starting again. | |
| Tarzanboy 2003-07-09, 3:07 am |
| What IP address are they displaying when you type in IPConfig /all?
Cheers,
TB | |
| enforcer 2003-07-09, 5:43 am |
| as RussS said, try removing the TCP/IP installation and then reinstalling.
also check how many addresses you have on your scope, and see that you have enough free. | |
| MistyRing 2003-07-09, 8:22 am |
| Get hold of a boot disk configured for DHCP to eliminate whether or not Windows is causing the problem.
http://www.nu2.nu/bootdisk/ | |
| docmeyer 2003-07-09, 8:30 am |
| How many? Are they all used up?
 | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 8:41 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by RussS
Unfortunately I am more of a handson type. Perhaps it is a corrupted TCP/IP installation - try deleting it and starting again.
You know, as basic as is sounds, i hadn't tried that. And you know what? it worked
thanks guys | |
| Gundyman 2003-07-09, 9:14 pm |
| So, is it working now? | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 9:15 pm |
| yup | |
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| Daa-aum, I guess some of us do know what we are talking about .... lol | |
| me? I dunno... 2003-07-09, 9:20 pm |
| Reloading would have had the same effect as ipconfig /flushdns? I have been running an xp box on a 2k ad network, the 2k boxes are fine but I have to flush the dns cache on the xp box fairly often, I dont know why. | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 10:14 pm |
| I tried every single ipconfig switch in the book with no luck. at least it works now | |
| RussS 2003-07-09, 10:15 pm |
| Ya got me there. I suggest comparing the DNS settings for the machine that plays up against one of the good working ones.
If there is nothing different I suggest deleting the TCP/IP stack and reinstalling. | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-09, 10:27 pm |
| Thats what i did, and it worked | |
| Rodman10000 2003-07-14, 12:02 am |
| I think your problem might be the fact that you are running Win 2k / XP....if you run win 9x on that machine, you will be able to configure DHCP with no probs.
I am sending this message on a Pent II 333 running win xp, and it took me a LONG time to configure...it's not worth it...in fact, you might find that the speed of the laptop will increase by running a lesser OS. Both Win 2k and XP are 'bloated' OS's, and use alot of resources. More IRQ's are available while running win 9x.
Maybe? | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-14, 12:04 am |
| I understand all that, problem is, its a business environment with rules about which OS's we can and can't use, security measures etc.
The germans (our parent company is german) would have a heart attack if they found out we were running 9x clients | |
| Rodman10000 2003-07-14, 12:17 am |
| Maybe I missed that it was a 'business' machine you were referring to. Most companies here in Canada don't seem to mind what OS is on a client machine.
I don't understand why this parent company would not furnish you with more up-to-date machines??? How do they expect you to keep up?  | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-14, 12:52 am |
| Its a... complex situation. for political reasons the boss won't upgrade the two computers in question. | |
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| Ahh don't worry my friend - I was working at a place over christmas that still had 3.11 on their system - plus LOTS of W95, mainly W98, some Muppett edition, W2K and the ocasional XP .... what a load of crap that was. BTW - that was the clients. In the server room was stuff that defies logic
Oh, did I say that this was a major health provider? .... | |
| thhegge 2003-07-14, 5:41 am |
| Hi.
Seems like a weird problem if you ask me, but then again a few years in the business has made me realise that there is in fact a reason for millions of people being employed in it: Things don't work as they are supposed to.
Try this (as I do not know if you have):
1. Device Manager should be a place to start to see if the NICS are correctly installed. Try a NIC on another computer that you know receives addresses on the problematic machines to see if that helps. At least then you know if its the NIC driver or not. You see, I have had the same problem as you mention:static was ok, dynamic was not, and it all proved to be an outdated driver on a newer version of the NIC.
2. Check to see that the DHCP scope contains anough addresses for the whole network.
Good Luck! | |
| JeffryBretz 2003-07-14, 11:02 am |
| Check to see if the DHCP is running. Go to Start/Settings/Control Panel/Administrative Tools/Services and verify that the DHCP client is running. Start it if not. Then go to your network adapter in Control Panel/Network Connections and select properties. Under TCP/IP properties, Verify that you get your IP addresses automatically. Then select Advanced and verify that inder IP addresses that DHCP is enabled. Then open up a command prompt and type "ipconfig /renew". You can then type "ipconfig /all" to see the IP address assigned. | |
| theprofessor 2003-07-14, 1:45 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by RussS
All auto - including DNS settings?
DNS? What's DNS got to do with it? The initial assignment of an IP address via DHCP is handled completely by broadcasts.
I was going to suggest that there might be a router in the way but it appears that reinstalling TCP/IP on the clients fixed the problem (ah Microsoft who's main repair methods are reboot and reinstall ) | |
| darthfeces 2003-07-14, 1:48 pm |
| put a sniffer on the local segment and watch
the exchange of dhcp messages.
we've had dhcp issues mostly releated to old hardware. | |
| ANDY A 2003-07-14, 6:50 pm |
| Dhcp is not cracked up to be as usfull as it should be, in fact it can just be a pain in the backside. Even thou the need to reinstall TCPip cured your problem.
Go static Ip's where possible we did, even thou it took a considerable time to set up because of the amount of computers we look after. The plus's outweigh the initial time and effort to set up.
The the whole setup runs as smooth as a nut and as been for 12 months.
No more my computer taking a long time to log on or not log on at all lost comunication with printers DHCP servers grinding to an halt amongst a ruck of other probs,
now all gone Lifes very easy perhaps to easy now, dont need so many support staff | |
| RussS 2003-07-14, 11:10 pm |
| I think you will find that our suggestion to reinstall the TCP/IP stack sorted the problem.
theprofessor - I mentioned DNS because if some settings were set manually then it could cause a problem. I have also seen networks with DNS manually configured on all systems (dunno why). | |
| theprofessor 2003-07-15, 12:58 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by RussS
I mentioned DNS because if some settings were set manually then it could cause a problem. I have also seen networks with DNS manually configured on all systems (dunno why).
I sure have seen lots of problems with manually configured DNS overriding the DHCP options (a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing ) but that wouldn't prevent a DHCP client from obtaining an IP address from the DHCP server.
But as you said, the standard Microsoft fix of reboot and/or reinstall fixed it | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-15, 6:40 pm |
| Well, partially. Now we have a brand new Windows XP computer with the same problem. I have tried FOUR different, known-to-be-working network cards, and will not get DHCP. Plus, winxp won't let you uninstall tcpip  (( piece of crap! | |
| Tarzanboy 2003-07-15, 6:53 pm |
| To reinstall TCP/IP in XP, type this at the command prompt:
NETSH INTERFACE IP RESET LOG.TXT
I have a feeling there is more to it than TCP/IP corrupting on every new machine that is connecting to the DHCP box.
Cheers,
TB | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-15, 6:55 pm |
| thanks, i'll give that a go
its not every machine though, just a couple | |
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| Wont let you uninstall TCP/IP - sounds screwy. How about deleting the NIC? | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-15, 9:34 pm |
| tried that, still no work
I know, it does sound screwy. the WinXP help file ACTUALLY STATES that you cannot uninstall tcpip... piece of crap! | |
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| Hey dood
Try typing in TCP/IP at technet and then follow the More Support ...ahhh bugger it ....
HERE
There is an article about removing the TCP/IP stack somewhere there - also something about DCHP | |
| theprofessor 2003-07-16, 1:09 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by fatchronos
Well, partially. Now we have a brand new Windows XP computer with the same problem.
Is there any chance you're setting up these machines on a subnet separated from the DHCP server by a router?
It might be time to install network monitor and see what's happening with the 4 packet DHCP handshake. | |
| gauji 2003-07-17, 11:49 pm |
| What info do you get if you do ipconfig/all
Does it list 0.0.0.0. or 169.something ? | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-17, 11:50 pm |
| same subnet, i get a 169.254 address
i'll try network monitor | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-18, 12:02 am |
| XP doesn't have an option to install netmon piece of CRAP
And the copy from a w2k computer doesnt work either | |
| gauji 2003-07-18, 12:05 am |
| If you set static IP and subnet mask
can you then communicate with others
like ping the DHCP | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-18, 12:06 am |
| yep, everything works with static, including pinging dhcp server | |
| gauji 2003-07-18, 12:10 am |
| Check TCP/IP properties for filtering.
Or might you be running Antivirus program using itīs firewall (could be blocking all ports). | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-18, 12:19 am |
| No and No | |
| gauji 2003-07-18, 12:32 am |
| Could DHCP servers scope be fully leased ? | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-18, 12:40 am |
| nope | |
| gauji 2003-07-18, 12:53 am |
| Did you check if the dhcp client service is up and running and the workstation service.
Client for Microsoft networks is checked in connection properties.
Is youīre DHCP a server or is it some kind of router, are you running AD ? | |
|
| I had some odd proplems like this
but they allways where resolved with either new NIC or shutting down some kind of firewall intergrated in antivirus programs.
One other thing I remember is that XP sometimes choses the wrong driver for NICīs check if you got the latest driver from the nicīs vendor. | |
| fatchronos 2003-07-18, 3:49 am |
| XXXXING GERMANS!!
I just found out - they did not allocate us enough ip's, so yes, we have been short-scoped all this time
arrrrrgh
You see, ours is a german-run company in australia. The DHCP servers, although being physically here, are completely under their control and we can't do ANYTHING to them. So I thought it WOULD have been safe to assume that they were in control, and we had enough ip's right?
heh
thanks for all your help guys, sorry it was such a simple solution | |
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| That's how most of them turn out...simple. Glad you have it solved. | |
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| theprofessor 2003-07-18, 5:34 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by fatchronos
XP doesn't have an option to install netmon
Check out http://www.ethereal.com/ | |
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| dstorm4715 2003-07-28, 9:59 am |
| In many cases I have seen dhcp not work because of a problem with network cards not syncing up during auto configure. Manually set the cards to 10/half or 100/full whatever is supported by your hubs and or switches, and also set your sw ports to the same settings. That should do the trick. If you still have problems, create a ndis dos boot disk for the Nic that you are using and see if that works. If so then you know it is something in the OS and can troubleshoot from there. PS: Make sure that you have free addresses in your DHCP scope! | |
| darthfeces 2003-07-28, 11:16 am |
| so there weren't enough ip's in the pool to cover the hosts ??????
the seemingly most complex problems that we try so hard to solve always have the simplest answers .....! |
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