| Author |
What's more important
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| mvissat 2003-06-16, 2:36 pm |
| Certs and experience are important when you are 20 - 30 years old, but down the line that experience will be outdated and your college education will get through! | |
| theguy 2003-06-16, 2:42 pm |
| But in theory, if you are in the field and working for a company, aren't you going to try and pay attention to the changing times and changing technologies and update yourself accordingly if you want to keep your job? | |
| mvissat 2003-06-16, 2:58 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by theguy
But in theory, if you are in the field and working for a company, aren't you going to try and pay attention to the changing times and changing technologies and update yourself accordingly if you want to keep your job?
You are absolutley correct that you should be paying attention and changing with the times. However, it becomes easy to get into a comfortable position and, as the current economic times dictate, not keep as current as one should or be able to encomapss all the aspects of the current and popular IT fields. Thus it becomes difficult to find employment when attempting to compete with fresh graduates. A college degree is more that just a piece of paper, it is a statement of achievement, capability and success. Experience/Certs in a IT field is merely a sign of the times, not life long learning. What you know today in the IT field is basically already obsolete. If your employment is at the cutting edge of technology, then you will have great success. If you are merely a programmer,etc. with a specific skill that sill will be defunct in a very short time. There is lots to discuss about this topic, but I basically believe that a college education actually teaches you something tha will last you a life time. IT experience and certs are just a temporary stop! | |
| theguy 2003-06-16, 3:08 pm |
| I wasnt saying you were wrong. I guess just being that I am currently in college and after I got done with my Network+ class, I actually learned more by studying by myself and doing testing by myself than I did in the class I am holding a grudge of some sort against college. Also, the company that I work for seems to pay attention to certs so that has something to do with it too. Are you currently in collage right now, or going into college, or are you done college? | |
| mvissat 2003-06-16, 3:23 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by theguy
I wasnt saying you were wrong. I guess just being that I am currently in college and after I got done with my Network+ class, I actually learned more by studying by myself and doing testing by myself than I did in the class I am holding a grudge of some sort against college. Also, the company that I work for seems to pay attention to certs so that has something to do with it too. Are you currently in collage right now, or going into college, or are you done college?
I am out of college. But I recommend that you do not waste your time taking courses in college that you feel you can teach yourself, especially computer courses. Suck up all your computer knowledge at your current job and save college for the interesting stuff!. | |
| Gundyman 2003-06-16, 3:32 pm |
| experience is your "golden key" other just for backup.. | |
| BinaryFission 2003-06-16, 3:42 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mvissat
I am out of college. But I recommend that you do not waste your time taking courses in college that you feel you can teach yourself, especially computer courses. Suck up all your computer knowledge at your current job and save college for the interesting stuff!.
There isnt anything interesting in college besides computer stuff!
BTW about your comment on stuff being learned today is obsolete tommorrow. I think thats incorrect. I still know companys running token ring, thinnet, and 95/NT.
That stuff is 8+ years old. Active directory, 2000, ethernet, wi-fi , stuff we will learn today will be the future of tommorrow. | |
| theguy 2003-06-16, 3:53 pm |
| I am not sure what way I want to go. I mean, I thought about go hardcore for my Cisco stuff, but if I dont do that then I dont know whether I want to stay with Novell, hoping that sales will ge back up, or if I should try to go towards Microsoft. I am thinking about staying with Novell because the new iPrint and iFolder stuff is going to get big. Any ideas? | |
| RussS 2003-06-16, 10:06 pm |
| Dunno if I can totally agree there. When one is younger a college education is something that an employer will look at, however there are all too many graduates that do not do any further refreshing of their education and what they learned when they were 20 is totally outdated when they are 40 or 50. Someone who is certified, takes refreshers and has experience will be a far more useful employee in that situation.
As someone who has employed 100's of staff over the years I have to say that a lot of people who follow the route of a college education are sometimes just wasting their time - conversely others stay there too long. Like everything in ones life it is all about balance. | |
| peterd 2003-06-17, 2:44 am |
| Hi,
I've noticed a definate arrogance among young people who think they know it all and it's especially marked in those who have a degree.
What you learn in college isn't neccesarily usefull in the real world and someone with a few years experience will wipe the floor with you.
There are lots of people out there who haven't got any degree but who have no difficulty in finding a job when they need one.
I don't think getting a degree is the final answer as some people seem to suggest.
Regards
Peter | |
| bloodshotx 2003-06-17, 6:11 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by peterd
Hi,
I've noticed a definate arrogance among young people who think they know it all and it's especially marked in those who have a degree.
What you learn in college isn't neccesarily usefull in the real world and someone with a few years experience will wipe the floor with you.
I don't think getting a degree is the final answer as some people seem to suggest.
I agree with you Peter. But big corporations usually require degree's to get in. A degree is nothing more than a paper saying that you completed 4 years of college and you are ready to succeed. It does not prepare you for the IT industry unless you take a cert degree. | |
| mvissat 2003-06-17, 8:04 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by bloodshotx
I agree with you Peter. But big corporations usually require degree's to get in. A degree is nothing more than a paper saying that you completed 4 years of college and you are ready to succeed. It does not prepare you for the IT industry unless you take a cert degree.
I still think that the college degree will get you a whole heck of a lot further than the certs. At some point in your career you will want to move beyond the bit and bytes and nuts and bolts and the college education will be far more important in that management role. A college degree may mean you are ready to succeed but the degree is more respected and as essential as a high school diploma any more! | |
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| I guess it really depends on where you are wishing to head in your career - and how gifted you are at certain things. A lot of recruitment agencies will ignore a degree if what the employer wants is a MSCE or MSDBA or MCAD for instance.
A friend of the family has a doctorate and found that it was more of a hindrance when job hunting ..... until he added experience. And as far as degrees and certifications go the most gifted programmer I know dropped out of school at 15 because he was offered a mondo starting salary. The guy now is a partner in a company and earns more a year than most of us will see in a lifetime. | |
| donaldmc 2003-06-17, 3:23 pm |
| I've got a degree and certifications in my opinion there just paper, people hire based on people skills. Because people with degrees and certifications are a everywhere, but it's hard to find someone you can tolerate with these skills. | |
| Tennman 2003-06-18, 11:08 pm |
| Certs; are good for a specific knowledge about some product such win 2000 or nt or business intergration such as MCSE,or MCSA. but most companies would like there management people to be well rounded and this is where the college education comes. | |
| bearing 2003-06-19, 2:36 am |
| I don't know what it's like in the States, bu over here people who get degrees usually step into management jobs, with no previous experience of life etc. They've spent 11 13 or so years at school, then straight to Uni for 3 to 4 years and then into a management job. So what experience to these kids have? Jack shit that's what.
The most laughable part is that you can gain a degree in Sociology or Modern Studies(apologies to anyone if they've got a degree in these subjects) and can then be employed in technical jobs over those with lesser qualifications in technical subjects. | |
| peterd 2003-06-19, 2:37 am |
| hi,
I suppose it all depends if you want to be a technician/engineer or a manager/pen-pusher.
As for four years study...I believe it's as little as two years to get some degrees in the UK!
Regards
Peter | |
| MistyRing 2003-06-19, 6:58 am |
| If you've been in the industry for a few years, relevant experience and the ability to sell yourself almost always wins through. I would never discourage anyone from doing a degree though (although I don't have one myself) as it adds another dimension to what you have to offer. Some large corporations require one as a prerequisite for cetain types of jobs. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-06-19, 7:23 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by bearing
I don't know what it's like in the States, bu over here people who get degrees usually step into management jobs, with no previous experience of life etc. They've spent 11 13 or so years at school, then straight to Uni for 3 to 4 years and then into a management job. So what experience to these kids have? Jack shit that's what.
.
Thats what happened in my last job. Though in fairness he ( the degree boy ) who got the job wasn't an arsehole and let us get on with doing our jobs.
The big difference with Degrees here and the UK is cost. four years of college is 100's of thousands of dollars. Even an Open University type college course can run you in to 30 to 40 Grand. | |
| mvissat 2003-06-19, 11:46 am |
| I agree with Tennman and MistyRing. Note both are Senior Members! Listen to those IT elders - they won't steer you wrong and heed their words! A college degree can open doors through out your lifetime. | |
| jonhiker 2003-06-19, 12:44 pm |
| I had an instructor in college(accounting) who defined a degree as this:
"It teaches you how to learn."
Part of the knowledge you gain in college will not be totally applicable, most companies develop their own procedures. However, the degree gives you a background and understanding in that area. And, yes that applies to technical and non-technical degrees(mine is in Business Admin).
Certs show you have demonstrated a knowledge in a particular area, whether it's an MCSE or Sales. But, there are also "paper certs".
That's why companies look for the combo of certs/degree & experience. Also, a willingness to learn, keep up with the newest industry trends, and personality traits, teamwork, etc. It's all part of the package. | |
| invisible 2003-06-19, 1:08 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mvissat
Certs and experience are important when you are 20 - 30 years old, but down the line that experience will be outdated and your college education will get through!
certs and experience are important when you are 20-30 years old? how much experience can you have at 20??? a degree is not the only way to get the job you've always dreamed of. i know several people with degrees who are unable to find employment or have been stuck in jobs that they are unhappy with. employers look at more than just a degree. a degree shows that you spent four years in school, but it doesn't prove that you can get a job done. employers look at all aspects of prospective employees...whether it be their certs, experience, knowledge, skills, ability, education, etc. there is no one thing that is most important. a degree does not gaurantee you anything! how does experience get outdated??? i think it's the other way around; education gets out dated...especially in the technology field. if you are 40 years old and you got a degree when you were 25, then employers are definitely going to look at your experience because your experience is more recent.
...just my opinion... | |
| MistyRing 2003-06-19, 1:17 pm |
| You're absolutely on the money. A degree benefits those with less experience much more. | |
| chodan 2003-06-22, 8:55 am |
| I saw a comedian who said now that he is close to 40 that he realized that people in there 20's know almost nothing 
I don't know if this is true but if I have a 35 year old with experience and a 25 year old with just a degree, all else being equal I'm going with the 35 year old 9 times out of 10.
Why?
Life experience, maturity, generally able to solve problems better etc.
This is not always the case but it is a good general rule.
To finish the comedian said all people in their 20's were good for was looking better that people in their 30's and 40's
"So strike a pose a shut the F**k up" hehe
I know this was true for me, I wish I knew now what I though I knew then. | |
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| 4 years college give you different perpective of life. While you are received such opportunity to learn and experience different culture and view of life, take it. Many people from other nations are seeking such opportunity for life.
Also, college is good networking for friends and jobs... U will get to know people that will help you no matter what, a friend that only good for fun, a friend that love you, a friend or your future partner in business...
This is how I think:
Experience is support by you,
Certification is to enhance your education,
Education is the foundation of your goal. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-06-23, 7:25 pm |
| If I had to choose a getaway driver (just making an example) and had 2 choices of drivers. One guy has a license but never sat behind the wheel and the other guy never got his license but has been driving for years. I think my choice would be easy.
That being said, its hard to compare such vague terms as Certs, Degrees, and Experience. Experience installing CD drives or experience building and administering a network. CCIE or A+, 2 year degree in Computer Information Systems or 6 years of Comp Science, then it depends on whether you went to good college or not.
All IMO.... |
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