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Home > Archive > General Discussion > February 2003 > Some advice from old people......
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Some advice from old people......
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| ChrisDfer 2003-01-23, 8:01 pm |
| I been thinking of joining the military(either navy or airforce) because I figure if I do it right I could be able to get them to finish up paying for my school and also give me a job in a somewhat related field(if I do it right) And I was wondering if you older folks think this is a good idea. And if you have any tips on how I should go about handeling this.
*Yes there is more to me joining the service then just getting a job. I also feel like it would be a great experince for me and help me grow up and stop acting like a 12yr old. | |
| chodan 2003-01-23, 8:08 pm |
| The Military is a better deal than ever.
Travel, skills training, can get college credits while your in, and get money for college when you get out, discipline which is one of the most important things to get.
On the down side you may go to war and get killed.  | |
| cruss575 2003-01-23, 8:09 pm |
| I don't think anyone would argue that the Air Force is the easiest of the services to be in. The Marines and the Coast Guard are probably the hardest. Squids put up with a lot on a ship and if you are on a small ship like a destroyer, you better not be seasick-prone. You can be in waters so rough, you are strapped into your bunk to keep from rolling out and hurting yourself.
Regardless of your choice, get yourself in some sort of shape cardio-wise before reporting because you will run and run and run.... | |
| Slinky 2003-01-23, 8:22 pm |
| Go talk to a recruiter. | |
| Supertech 2003-01-23, 10:33 pm |
| the safest place to be is in a submarine. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-01-23, 11:15 pm |
| Ahh my step dad was a bubble head. He wont stop giving me a hard time about my possible instrest in joining the airforce. Ehnn gonna call my recruiter on friday. | |
| iggy4270 2003-01-23, 11:46 pm |
| Chris, just be careful when you talk to your recruiter. I had an unpleasant experience many years ago with a Navy recruiter, forunately I was able to break the contract before it was to late. Make sure you get everything that your promised in writing before you sign any contracts. Best of luck..... | |
| Slinky 2003-01-24, 12:10 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by iggy4270
Chris, just be careful when you talk to your recruiter. I had an unpleasant experience many years ago with a Navy recruiter, forunately I was able to break the contract before it was to late. Make sure you get everything that your promised in writing before you sign any contracts. Best of luck.....
The only time its too late is when you sign your Oath of Enlistment contract which you do the day you leave for basic training. Your a$$ doesn't belong to the corp until then.  You can sign all you want before that and your not obligated to do jack. | |
| vincentnl 2003-01-24, 12:24 am |
| I do not seriously recommend the armed services. I myself am 30. I joined the cadets because my best friend was in it. I got out in good time. Less than 2 years.
The best thing I can see the armed services doing for you is giving discipline but once out and after many years the only place you will be valued most will be the security services or as a security guard.
You'd better do well if you wanna survive back in civvie street when you return ideally unscathed and still alive!!!
Join the police. You are better needed on home ground not on some f-ing country that politicians want you to go to. | |
| iggy4270 2003-01-24, 12:44 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slinky - The only time its too late is when you sign your Oath of Enlistment contract which you do the day you leave for basic training. Your a$$ doesn't belong to the corp until then. You can sign all you want before that and your not obligated to do jack.
Correct Slinky, I had only signed the first set of papers so I was fortunate in that sense. But it was still a pain in the a$$ to get out. I had to bullshite them and say I had a family hardship. I also had to supply 3 letters. 1 from my parish priest and 2 from local politicians. luckily my cousin was politically connected. | |
| seattlebum 2003-01-24, 12:58 am |
| I joined the Navy back in 1985 and got into Radioman "A" school in San Diego after boot camp. After that, I went to Submarine School in Groton, CT. then on to various ELF/VLF receiver/processor and crypto schools. I would suggest go into a rating such as ET or RM, however you will obligate for at least 6 years of service. Whatever you do, don't let the recruiter talk you into going to Nuke training. Big mistake!
I had two years of electronics and other training before I even set foot on my first boat. It depends on what you're interested in (my interest was communications and computers). You will sacrifice a lot, but it's all worth it once you get your dolphins "tacked on".
Do make sure you sign up for the GI Bill, and take advantage of all the PACE II college classes you can while underway. The Navy will pay for most of your college costs while you're on active duty (at least 75% tuition assistance when I was in).
After you get out, your GI Bill is worth 36 months of benefits at around $900/month on full load of classes the last time I checked.
Good luck mate! | |
| iggy4270 2003-01-24, 1:29 am |
| Very good advice seattlebum. Sounds like you used your head and took advantage of all they had to offer, good for you. I don't know what it is but the recruiters try to push the nuclear navy. After I took my exams they tried to talk me into it also. This was back in 1978  | |
| Supertech 2003-01-24, 7:56 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by seattlebum
I joined the Navy back in 1985 and got into Radioman "A" school in San Diego after boot camp. After that, I went to Submarine School in Groton, CT. then on to various ELF/VLF receiver/processor and crypto schools. I would suggest go into a rating such as ET or RM, however you will obligate for at least 6 years of service. Whatever you do, don't let the recruiter talk you into going to Nuke training. Big mistake!
I had two years of electronics and other training before I even set foot on my first boat. It depends on what you're interested in (my interest was communications and computers). You will sacrifice a lot, but it's all worth it once you get your dolphins "tacked on".
Do make sure you sign up for the GI Bill, and take advantage of all the PACE II college classes you can while underway. The Navy will pay for most of your college costs while you're on active duty (at least 75% tuition assistance when I was in).
After you get out, your GI Bill is worth 36 months of benefits at around $900/month on full load of classes the last time I checked.
Good luck mate!
Too Cool! I was also an ATF Radioman. I did SatComm and floating wire stuff. I was a Bluenose out of Groton on the Russell SSN 687.
The advanced technical fields in the Navy are a good deal. Don't go nuclear. The only place you can get a job is in a nuc. power plant and that is the most bureaucractic workplace imaginable (it takes 3 people to change a fuse).
A submarine is a great place to learn systems. | |
| ANDRONDA 2003-01-24, 8:49 am |
| The Military is a great place to start just as the advertisements used to say. I was raised in a small town (of 850) in the rural south and wanted more than anything to be able to go to college but my family did not have the means to afford it. I was a talented writer and hoped to receive some form of scholarship so I applied for many journalism awards and though I may have had some talent in the area it was not enough to win anything substantial.
In desperation I went to the JROTC Sergeant at our High School and asked about military aid for education (i.e. the GI Bill). He told me then that though the GI Bill was good it might be better to apply for an ROTC Scholarship. That program covers full tuition and pays a monthly allowance. In return the candidate must serve four years active duty as a commissioned officer.
It turned out to be the path for me and I did serve my four years with distinction. It was a very wise move for me.
I must warn you that the Military is a hard life. You will spend extended time away from loved ones and could be called upon to serve in a hostile region overseas (I was sent to the Persian Gulf during the 1991 conflict).
I would also caution you to not go in with a mindset that you want the “easiest” assignment. In the Military the so-called “easiest assignments” are the most un-rewarding. I started out that way but then decided to go to Airborne School and transferred to an Infantry Unit. It made the job 10,000 times more rewarding.
Also watch the recruiter. They lie a lot. They will say anything to get you to sign. I possible take a former NCO or Officer in with you.
PS I am 35 and do not feel "old". | |
| Slinky 2003-01-24, 11:35 am |
| Tuition assistance is now 100% and they increased the yearly cap from $3500/year to $4500/year. And you can use your GI bill while you are in. You honestly can't beat it. I'm kicking myself for not taking more advantage of TA, but luckily I still have my GI bill which will be about $900/month for the next 3 years. | |
| seattlebum 2003-01-24, 11:38 am |
| I went on the the USS George Washington Carver (SSBN 656 G) then on to shore duty at the Naval Communications Unit, Marquette Michigan (ELF Transmitter Facility), TRITRAFAC Bangor Washington (Trident IRR (Integrated Radio Room) training), the USS Michigan (SSBN 727 B) and finally COMSUBGRU Nine, Bangor Wa for shore duty.
All in all it was a good experience for me and made me appreciate this country and the freedom we take for granted that much more! | |
| Supertech 2003-01-24, 11:57 am |
| If only this group of Cold War boats could talk about the missions they deployed on- but they won't. | |
| seattlebum 2003-01-24, 12:19 pm |
| It's sad to see such beautiful pigboats go to waste. I'm sure they could make them into some Mach 3 razor blades.
That looks like an aerial shot of Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Bremerton. | |
| Supertech 2003-01-24, 1:46 pm |
| Yep, I believe the boat on top is the Russell. They decommisioned her about 97, I think.
"I'll stop calling your ship a boat if you'll stop calling my boat a ship."
I guess that's the difference between boats and targets. | |
| seattlebum 2003-01-24, 2:17 pm |
| They cut up and recycled the 656 boat years ago too, however the first four Tridents (Ohio, Michigan, Florida, Georgia) are being converted to SSGN's. They're going to put SEALs on them and turn them into party platforms.
Can you imagine how much beer you could fill into a Trident missile tube 4 decks high?
I'd almost reenlist for that one! | |
| Crutch 2003-01-24, 2:50 pm |
| I'm a Navy veteran myself, having served for 6+ years as a Data Processing Technician. During my enlistment, I served 3 years on the USS Enterprise and 3 years of shore duty at Defense Nuclear Agency in Albuquerque, NM. DP's have become RM's (radiomen), then became IT's. They did the first switch back in/around 1995, then switched to IT's somewhere around 1998. I have a shipmate who is now a ITC (Chief) on the USNS Comfort. He said that IT is now a great rate to be in. Working with shipboard LANs, etc. Another Navy rate to consider would be DS's (Data Systems Techs). The DS's were the ones fixing what us DP's broke. I know of several DS's that were recruited right out of the Navy in 1990 into positions that paid big bucks.
I was in the Navy from late '87 to '94. I really only have a Navy perspective, but I did work with Air Force people at DNA. One thing about the Air Farce, is it is the most political of all the services. Community involvement is huge in the AF (At least it was at my command). Also, it's harder to make grade. I was an E-6 with 6 years in and worked with lots of AF E-5's that had 15 years + of service.
I just heard that the services are offering tuition repayments for past college loans. Add the GI Bill, and you have a pretty fantastic package.
One question. Are you married? Navy life can be tough on marriages.
Good luck in your decision. | |
| drdirt 2003-01-24, 4:25 pm |
| I notice the civilians are under represented here...
This civy has to add that there are many other "securities" to a short or long career with the services.
While a friend of mine was in AF electronic training (at age 19) he took some time off base to dive into a lake. Unfortunately he broke his neck at about C5. He has been a quad for over 23 years now.
If he had been a civy, the best he might have done would be to get about 66% of his pay at the time for life (what would inflation do in 20 years?). Many wouldnt get that. Social security doesn't pay for many quads to even get turned over at night. House fire? Too bad.
My friend has a van he drives, very good medical, and owns some property. He moved to Thailand a couple years ago and found a girlfriend who is as beautiful as she is amazing.
He has had a harder life than anyone I know, except others with similar disabilities. I can't compare what would have happened if he weren't in the military.
I could go on about some engineers I've worked with who retired from the Navy after 20, then got a job with pay comparable to mine. They live pretty well now.
And I can confirm that the Nukes dont do so well after...A friend is teaching high school after 6 years nuke Navy. He struggled and failed to get an engineering job. Rickover must be spinning...
G'luk, enjoy if you can.
I was born into a family of Navy officers and a few rebelious AF. I attempted to join, but they perceived a "health" problem and wouldn't take me.
DrDirt | |
| jonhiker 2003-01-24, 5:22 pm |
| Coming from an "anchor clanker"... the military can be a good place. To echo a few things:
get a signed contract that specifies the training, etc you will receive.
take advantage of the savings program to put aside money for further schooling after your enlistment.
take advantage of any training posibilities that you can.
a friend was kind of "bumping" around for many years, all though always working. he joined the navy, and after he got out, is a civilian employee at the Everett Homeport and is set for life.
it's also a good place to get some discipline and some good work habits. plus, a lot of employers look favorably at service.
the navy or air force are good choices for high tech, probably better than marines or army
and, yes, it can be very hard on families. if you're already married, think twice about it. my other advice, don't get married while in the service unless your an officer. a lot of enlisted personnel live at or below the poverty line, even with benefits, access to the exchange or PX, etc.
good luck! | |
| yanqui 2003-01-27, 1:25 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
I been thinking of joining the military(either navy or airforce) because I figure if I do it right I could be able to get them to finish up paying for my school and also give me a job in a somewhat related field(if I do it right) And I was wondering if you older folks think this is a good idea. And if you have any tips on how I should go about handeling this.
*Yes there is more to me joining the service then just getting a job. I also feel like it would be a great experince for me and help me grow up and stop acting like a 12yr old.
First, if you want to stop acting like a 12-year-old, stop acting like a 12-year-old. *GEEEEZ* Do you really need someone to MAKE you behave? Second, the military can be a good experience, but if you plan to go in, plan to stay. Otherwise, you find that you can be behind in your retirement plans and your real-world experiences. Also, if you plan to go reserves, don't whine when you get called up for active dute, it's something you understand to be a realistic possibility when you join. If you're not ready to grow up, don't expect uncle sam to grow you up. You will only get out of the military experience what you put into it. At this time in our military history, you need to expect that your focus will be on doing your job, not on getting your education. You may have an excellent opportunity to do that--if you're not needed to fight. If your job gets in the way of your education the military figures, too bad, we hired you to do a job, and that's your first priority. And you know what? THAT's what we need in the military. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-01-27, 11:11 pm |
| Thanks guys for all the advice. Going in to talk to my recruiter this weekend. On the airforce website they have Communications/Computer Systems Operations as a field of choice, which is what I would like to do. What are the chances of getting what I want? Also would my current certifications hold any weight in helping me? Like I was planning on taking my CCNA in two weeks but would it be worth it? I mean since the cisco tests expire would I just be wasting money?
Oh by the way I am not married and have no kids. Soon to have no job so the airforce looks like great place to "start" my life. Get a degree while I am in there(through CCAF) get some expeirence and also get all the other benifiets of joining the service.
Yanqui: For some reason I feel like you were attacking me. Perhaps I am wrong but anyways. When I said help me grow up and stop acting like a 12yr old I was being more sarcastic then serious. I meant more along the lines that it will help me be a better person. | |
| Slinky 2003-01-27, 11:31 pm |
| Actually you have a pretty good chance of getting into it. The career field is undermanned for obvious reasons, and it has a pretty hefty reenlistment bonuss (around 5 or so). Might want to check to see if it has a signing bonus, you may get $3000 or so just for going in. Go get yourself setup for the ASVAB while your there and see if you can qualify for it. Just about any monkey can do well on it, and its not really that difficult. | |
| yanqui 2003-01-28, 11:02 am |
| Yanqui: For some reason I feel like you were attacking me. Perhaps I am wrong but anyways. When I said help me grow up and stop acting like a 12yr old I was being more sarcastic then serious. I meant more along the lines that it will help me be a better person. [/B][/QUOTE]
I apologize for the tenor of my post. If you are willing to work hard, it will make you a better person. And if you are willing to take criticism (not always constructive, either!), you will find the disciplined lifestyle to be a valuable asset. If you go for more than one enlistment, you need to plan to stay for 20 years, otherwise you'll be behind in some of the civilian-world experiences that give an edge in that arena; it's hard to specify, because for each field they are different, and they shift with the political and economic shifts. On the upside of a 20-year career in the military, you're still young enough to embark in the civilian world career track, with enough military experience to be called "seasoned" instead of "old." If you use the time wisely, progression in rank will put you at an advantage among your peers.
I just got tired of all the news reports about the poor servicemen who signed up for the reserves seeing it as a one-sided affair; they got the benefits and only had to give up a few days a month, plus camp in the summer. Now that the government is calling them up, they're saying they didn't think about that.
For the record, if you go, thank you in advance for your service to our country. | |
| jonhiker 2003-01-28, 11:18 am |
| ChrisDfer:
Ask your recruiter about civilian certs, I don't think they carry as much weight as a college degeree, either 4 yr or 2 yr. THe military will send you to learn things the "military way". If you go in, draw on your civilian training and background to learn and understand things better.
My brother was in the Air Force for 6 years and got some valuable training. Tough job he had, disk jockey/news producer for Armed Forces Radio & TV.
Good luck to you! | |
| yanqui 2003-01-28, 11:20 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by jonhiker
ChrisDfer:
Ask your recruiter about civilian certs, I don't think they carry as much weight as a college degeree, either 4 yr or 2 yr. THe military will send you to learn things the "military way". If you go in, draw on your civilian training and background to learn and understand things better.
My brother was in the Air Force for 6 years and got some valuable training. Tough job he had, disk jockey/news producer for Armed Forces Radio & TV.
Good luck to you!
Way off-topic--jonhiker's lion reminds me of Aslan. | |
| Mauwakee 2003-01-28, 2:04 pm |
| Sorry, I was in the Army. However, if you want a good IT job then the The two forces you are thinking of is the way to go. | |
| WildNorthMan 2003-01-28, 5:53 pm |
| There was a time you could get a very good trade in the military. Seems to me they have broken them down into specific autonomus tasks recently. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-01-31, 9:16 pm |
| Well my dream has been ruined. I guess I am disqualified from joining because I had some problems with my thyriod a few years ago and now I have to take synthriod. I am still trying to see if there is anyway around this but I figured its best just to continue on as I was going to in the first place. | |
| drdirt 2003-02-01, 2:27 am |
| ChrisD -
Well, I hope you find a way around the obstacle.
But, if you can't, there are many of us (maybe a majority of the population) that cant join and have a pretty good life anyway.
I couldn't join because I had juvenile rheumatoid arthritis since I was about 11.
Ironically, I've followed a more physically demanding route (working thru college in hardrock and coal mines - and practicing geology)for 21 years. I have no doubt that I could have kept up, but I didn't know it then - and I probably couldn't change the US military.
Let us know if you find a good way into the military. Don't let your "limitation" make you settle for a bad enlistment deal.
If the deal isn't great, stay out and chart a civilian path.
If you like great benefits and early retirement, there are municipal government jobs, teaching, etc that have different, but great benefits.
G'luk
drdirt | |
| iggy4270 2003-02-01, 3:26 am |
| Chris, I'm very sorry to hear about your deferment. I know you were looking forward to joining. But all in all just remember one thing, Everything in life happens for a reason, I'm sure the big guy upstairs has much better plans for you. So stay positive and best of luck.  |
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