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| little tibit from an article at cnn.com
Chirac said: "These countries have been not very well behaved and rather reckless of the danger of aligning themselves too rapidly with the American position."
"It is not really responsible behavior. It is not well brought-up behavior. They missed a good opportunity to keep quiet."
"I felt they acted frivolously because entry into the European Union implies a minimum of understanding for the others," Chirac said.
Chirac called the letters "infantile" and "dangerous," adding: "They missed a great opportunity to shut up
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europ...irac/index.html
it is funny how the rest of the world is critical of US and wondering if WE know what the rest of the world think of us... when we have this.
it is comical.
it is so clear that France's position is not dictated by right or wrong... of giving peace, inspection another chance... it is merely of waiting it out to see where IT can benefit the most... willing to sell itself to the highest bidder... They have forgotten the very freedom, their very nation was handed to them by us... now they are holding this over our head hoping to profit more then they are profitting from the iraqi...
the world like to accuse of US of acting based on its interest (oil)... heh. don't take the highroad... your own leader is acting like a fool, and worst, he is belittling every other nation... because oh the mighty france is of proud history... where others are not out of their infancy...
it is too bad none of the peace activist or opposing nations can properly address these issues... if its about oil, economy, why not protest against france along with america? if its about obeying UN... why not ask france and germany what hte resolution actually say and make them stick to it?
be fair, criticize US for all you want, but understand the cause for that criticism and if that same cause is applicable to others, then apply that same criticism to them also. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-02-18, 3:58 pm |
| America is evil and has never done any good for the world. All they do is take, take and take some more. They always claim that they saved the world in WW2, well B.S all they did was cause millions to die and used weapons of mass destruction. The world would be a much better place with out them. At least the french care about people and what happens to them. Unlike all americans who are nothing but greedy pigs who will kill for money or oil. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-18, 4:35 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
America is evil and has never done any good for the world. All they do is take, take and take some more. They always claim that they saved the world in WW2, well B.S all they did was cause millions to die and used weapons of mass destruction. The world would be a much better place with out them. At least the french care about people and what happens to them. Unlike all americans who are nothing but greedy pigs who will kill for money or oil.
Who saved the world in WW2 then? We bailed France out of WW1&2, then took over for you in Vietnam. France is worth about a bucket of sh1t. | |
|
| Yeah, if France doesn't join some cause, just how the hell are they going to surrender and be occupied,...AGAIN | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-02-18, 4:59 pm |
| You Americans really think you had anything to do with winning WW2? You people are really into self glorification. For example, in the film Saving Private Ryan (based on a true story of a British expedition to rescue British prisoners), where an all-American ground force takes on Germany; whereas America sent very few soldiers into war. America only began to send men into the war against Japan after Pearl Harbour, and the numbers and aid that America put into the world are pale in comparison to the massive war efforts conducted by Russia (who crushed Germany with 20 millions of ground troops), France (for it's bitter, endless and determined self defence) and the UK. The UK's air force and special forces were consistently very brave and effective (even though some of ground invasions of Germen held territory were ludicrously ill fated).
America did supply very small amounts of material goods, but it did not throw itself, or it's soldiers, into combat wholeheartedly. America's most consistent aid was against the Japanese, and not until Japan attacked America directly, and even then America eventually resorted to the massively indiscriminate nuclear bombs rather than "waste" men on resolute Japan.
North America appears to be very self-glorifying, and there are multiple generations in the UK, France and Europe who upset and angry at America's rewriting of history. Russia's men, France's entire population, and UK's air force, were the principal opponents of Germany, aided by crappy American equipment, for which we are grateful it didn't blow up when we got in, but it annoys all european people enough that I consider it a reason, related to patriotism, that people hate the USA.
There is an element of misunderstanding here, as Europeans consider World War 2 to be principally France, Europe, UK (with a little late American aid), Russia versus Germany, forgetting mostly about Japan. Whereas many American's will remember Pearl Harbour and the Japanese more prominently, and probably give the combat in the Indonesian islands and the Pacific more importance and of course love the fact that they were able to kill tens of thousands of cilivilans for no reason what so ever.
Country Casualties
Russia 20,000,000
China 10,000,000 to 15,000,000
Germany & Japan 6 500,000 inc. 1,000,000 German/japanese civilians(many murdered by the USA on purpose)
Bengal 1,500,000 (mostly indirect in 1943)
Yugoslavia 1,300,000
Britain + colonials 620,000
Italy 500,000
France 500,000
Hungary 350,000 approx.
Poland 350,000 approx.
Romania 350,000 approx.
United States 10,000 | |
|
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
At least the french care about people and what happens to them.
Just ask the Turks. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-02-18, 5:13 pm |
| Im sorry but I have to say the US DID save us in WW2. Even before they officially joined they were training pilots and supplying the UK with much needed supplies.
I for one am very gratefull. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-18, 5:27 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
You Americans really think you had anything to do with winning WW2? You people are really into self glorification. For example, in the film Saving Private Ryan (based on a true story of a British expedition to rescue British prisoners), where an all-American ground force takes on Germany; whereas America sent very few soldiers into war. America only began to send men into the war against Japan after Pearl Harbour, and the numbers and aid that America put into the world are pale in comparison to the massive war efforts conducted by Russia (who crushed Germany with 20 millions of ground troops), France (for it's bitter, endless and determined self defence) and the UK. The UK's air force and special forces were consistently very brave and effective (even though some of ground invasions of Germen held territory were ludicrously ill fated).
America did supply very small amounts of material goods, but it did not throw itself, or it's soldiers, into combat wholeheartedly. America's most consistent aid was against the Japanese, and not until Japan attacked America directly, and even then America eventually resorted to the massively indiscriminate nuclear bombs rather than "waste" men on resolute Japan.
North America appears to be very self-glorifying, and there are multiple generations in the UK, France and Europe who upset and angry at America's rewriting of history. Russia's men, France's entire population, and UK's air force, were the principal opponents of Germany, aided by crappy American equipment, for which we are grateful it didn't blow up when we got in, but it annoys all european people enough that I consider it a reason, related to patriotism, that people hate the USA.
There is an element of misunderstanding here, as Europeans consider World War 2 to be principally France, Europe, UK (with a little late American aid), Russia versus Germany, forgetting mostly about Japan. Whereas many American's will remember Pearl Harbour and the Japanese more prominently, and probably give the combat in the Indonesian islands and the Pacific more importance and of course love the fact that they were able to kill tens of thousands of cilivilans for no reason what so ever.
Country Casualties
Russia 20,000,000
China 10,000,000 to 15,000,000
Germany & Japan 6 500,000 inc. 1,000,000 German/japanese civilians(many murdered by the USA on purpose)
Bengal 1,500,000 (mostly indirect in 1943)
Yugoslavia 1,300,000
Britain + colonials 620,000
Italy 500,000
France 500,000
Hungary 350,000 approx.
Poland 350,000 approx.
Romania 350,000 approx.
United States 10,000
You are an absolute moron. We supplied Russia with over 500,000 vehicles, Russia proved how numbers mean nothing. Surrendering 250,000 men at a clip. Where did you get your death toll figures, your only off by about 415,000 Americans. I don't want to go on, if you honestly believe the French played a bigger role than us(coughs) then your going to exhist in that fantasy world, regardless of the facts. However, I find it quit amusing how the French teach their young of the war. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-02-18, 5:58 pm |
| Well I can tell you have been taught the american version of the war and the TRUE version. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-18, 6:11 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
Well I can tell you have been taught the american version of the war and the TRUE version.
Honestly, tell me where you got the 10K US casualty figure? French book? Is that same book that speaks of the French winning the war? When was the last time the French won a war? Seriously. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-02-18, 6:28 pm |
| Hey we once controlled almost all of Europe. Anyways, if it wasn't for the french the coldwar wouldn't have been won and neither would have Desert Storm. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-18, 6:50 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
Hey we once controlled almost all of Europe. Anyways, if it wasn't for the french the coldwar wouldn't have been won and neither would have Desert Storm.
I'm sure your crediting yourself with Napoleon. Being the expert you are, your aware that he didn't even learn to speak French until he went to Paris when he was 18. For all practical purposes, Napoleon was Italian. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-02-18, 7:17 pm |
| For all practical purposes I am not french either. I just like making absurd arguments with distorted facts lol. Sorry | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-18, 7:20 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDfer
For all practical purposes I am not french either. I just like making absurd arguments with distorted facts lol. Sorry
Should have known. | |
| iggy4270 2003-02-19, 5:21 am |
| Chirac is nothing but a big pussy who waited until China,Russia,and Germany voiced their opposition before he opened his big mouth. | |
| Mauwakee 2003-02-19, 7:22 am |
| Everyone knows that the French cannot fight. They are too lazy and busy making kissing faces. He**, the only thing they can do well is cook. Want to get the French in the fight, as if we really need them; tell them we found some rare snails there. Then only then will they beat the US there. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-19, 8:37 am |
| I feel the same way about the Russians, they've always replaced skill with numbers and loyalty with fear. Been along time since Russia really won a war. | |
| bearing 2003-02-19, 10:21 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mikop
it is so clear that France's position is not dictated by right or wrong... of giving peace, inspection another chance... it is merely of waiting it out to see where IT can benefit the most... willing to sell itself to the highest bidder...
I wonder if you were aware that the French actually sold arms to Argentina during the Falklands War!!
Mind you during the Falklands War the US remained neutral, maybe due to import export ties, and you've also invaded Grenada(A British dependancy) without even telling us, so I guess at the end of the day everybody looks after number one.
Has Britain always backed America, Lyndon Johnson begged the British to join the Vietnam war, but Harold Wilson wisely refused. Wilson backed his people's opinion that it was an unwinnable imperialist war, which is how France and Germany now view the proposed conflict with Iraq.
Maybe George Bush should consult his history books(if he has any )to see why there is anger at a bullying power wanting to ruin the lives of strangers half a world away he should take himself back to the days before 1776.
How would he have felt had George III sent weapons inspectors to Boston, demanding they hand over everything down to the last pea-shooter, because he feared they may one day become powerful enough to threaten his power?
They would have asked France and Prussia to condemn Britain as colonialists trying to subjugate another nation. And the Europeans would have backed the underdog to the hilt.
Isn't life full of Irony... | |
| mindmesh 2003-02-19, 11:41 am |
| George III was a fool.. If he didn't screw up we would still be a British Colony. He stationed 10,000 Troops in the colonies to try and enforce his one sided rules. What a clown.
One thing I've noticed is that if Europe says its OK then it is Gods word. If anyone else happens to have a varying opinion then they're wrong reguardless.
As far as France's aid to us during the Revolutionary war, it was in their best interest to remove England from America. England was making too much money and would soon beable to wage a war against them.
The French are still looking out for their best interest, yet making us seem like the Oil mongers.
Again, not many people want War but we are willing to do what is necessary to protect our people. Something your country knows a lot about. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-19, 11:46 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mindmesh
Again, not many people want War but we are willing to do what is necessary to protect our people. Something your country knows a lot about.
They just aren't very good at it. | |
| mindmesh 2003-02-19, 11:56 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by BlokWatch
They just aren't very good at it.
I don't know the stats but at least they tried. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-19, 11:59 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by bearing
Mind you during the Falklands War the US remained neutral, maybe due to import export ties, and you've also invaded Grenada(A British dependancy) without even telling us, so I guess at the end of the day everybody looks after number one.
We sent the Lexington down in like the 1830s to shell Puerto Soledad when Argentina intially started their worthless claims. Guess we figured that was enough. Sorry | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-19, 12:00 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by mindmesh
I don't know the stats but at least they tried.
Stats are France fell in like 20 days, they didn't try hard enough. | |
| mindmesh 2003-02-19, 12:03 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by BlokWatch
Stats are France fell in like 20 days, they didn't try hard enough.
LOL.. Should have just warned them. They would have surrendered. Probably took the French 20 days to realize what was going on. | |
| ccieToBe 2003-02-19, 6:58 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by BlokWatch
Stats are France fell in like 20 days, they didn't try hard enough.
Bottom line...they threw way to many resources into building up the Maginot Line thinking it would protect them. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-19, 7:27 pm |
| Aside from not having a clue how to fight a modern, mobile war. They didn't even have radio communication in their tanks. I guess they didn't envision armoured columns punching through and encircling armies. They thought of their tanks as self-propelled armoured artilery. They failed to see war had moved beyond the static lines that got formed during WW1 and had not adapted equipment or training to fit the times. | |
| bearing 2003-02-21, 3:29 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mindmesh
LOL.. Should have just warned them. They would have surrendered. Probably took the French 20 days to realize what was going on.
I think until your country has been invaded and occupied to the extent that France was, you should step carefully with such accusations. Many Brave Frenchmen died along with other nationalities defending their freedom, so your somewhat crass accusations are a little bit on the offensive side.. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-21, 4:09 am |
| Many later became German collaborators, and fought against us under the Vichy government. | |
| mindmesh 2003-02-21, 9:34 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by bearing
I think until your country has been invaded and occupied to the extent that France was, you should step carefully with such accusations. Many Brave Frenchmen died along with other nationalities defending their freedom, so your somewhat crass accusations are a little bit on the offensive side..
Sort of like the French during the 7 years war or the British during the Revolutionary war. Both were hostile occupational forces not in the colonies by our wishes and both were expelled. Many brave men and women died in those wars.
Not to mention how many Americans went into France and Died liberating them.
Now I didn't mean to offend you. I kind of got caught up in the moment with, BlokWatch. If I insulted you I am sorry, but right now I have a little resentment towards the French and German governments. I don't hate French people, though I may be a little upset with them. Freak is a good guy, and he is always trying to help. I don't hate him or even dislike him because he's French. I may or may not be upset with his stance on this topic, but I still respect his opinions just like I respect yours.
Now that being said, there are a couple of French people in New York who I'd like to stick a foot in their a$$. But this is in no way generalization of all French. | |
| soccer4net 2003-02-21, 1:03 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by bearing
How would he have felt had George III sent weapons inspectors to Boston, demanding they hand over everything down to the last pea-shooter, because he feared they may one day become powerful enough to threaten his power?
They would have asked France and Prussia to condemn Britain as colonialists trying to subjugate another nation. And the Europeans would have backed the underdog to the hilt.
Isn't life full of Irony... [/B]
Perhaps, if George Washington had tortured and gassed fellow American citizens because they disagreed with him. That and if he was threatening/plotting to send kegs of gunpowder to Britain in order to blow up innocent civilians. Yeah, then you'd have it about right. | |
| luisjo 2003-02-21, 11:23 pm |
| If you dont like the USA, f u c k your Selfs, my cousin died in Vietnam, he love his country, F u c k y o u ChrisDfer go live some where else, and kiss my a s s, and to all the people that hates america, why do you live there, go take a plane(i hope it explodes) and go to your country, france, germany or where ever it is, and go suck a farth.
A s s h o l e s
God Bless America. | |
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| luisjo 2003-02-21, 11:53 pm |
| They forgot their magazines, damm always forgeting something. | |
| ChrisDfer 2003-02-22, 7:24 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by luisjo
If you dont like the USA, f u c k your Selfs, my cousin died in Vietnam, he love his country, F u c k y o u ChrisDfer go live some where else, and kiss my a s s, and to all the people that hates america, why do you live there, go take a plane(i hope it explodes) and go to your country, france, germany or where ever it is, and go suck a farth.
A s s h o l e s
God Bless America.
Hmmm, you seem a bit confused little man. I however will not go down to your level and swear and insult you. | |
| Drummer 2003-02-24, 12:51 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by bearing
How would he have felt had George III sent weapons inspectors to Boston, demanding they hand over everything down to the last pea-shooter, because he feared they may one day become powerful enough to threaten his power?
They would have asked France and Prussia to condemn Britain as colonialists trying to subjugate another nation. And the Europeans would have backed the underdog to the hilt.
I like that. That's good. | |
| bearing 2003-02-24, 3:04 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by luisjo
If you dont like the USA, f u c k your Selfs, my cousin died in Vietnam, he love his country, F u c k y o u ChrisDfer go live some where else, and kiss my a s s, and to all the people that hates america, why do you live there, go take a plane(i hope it explodes) and go to your country, france, germany or where ever it is, and go suck a farth.
A s s h o l e s
God Bless America.
Just a tip for you, go and find yourself a dictionary, look up the word humour and then re-read ChrisDfer's posts. You may then want to retract that excuse for a post I've quoted above... | |
| usnstinger 2003-02-24, 7:26 am |
| France 500,000 casualties half of them civilians. (failed to mention most shot in the back) 
Britain less than 500,000 but with 120,000 additional from the Empire.
United States less than 300,000 died; additional hundred thousands died in industry
Hungary, Poland, Rom 3-400,000 losses in each army of Hungary, Poland and Romania.
East & CentralEurope 4,300,000 to 5,800,000 Jews died as well as a similar number of slaws.
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dko12530/ww2.htm | |
| bearing 2003-02-24, 11:34 am |
| usnstinger,
That signature of yours is a fabulous piece of work, did you think of it all by yourself, or did mommy and daddy give you a bit of a helping hand? | |
| usnstinger 2003-02-24, 4:11 pm |
| lol, yours should say:
Every morning when I wake I thank the Lord I'm an Englishman that doesn't speak german thx to the U.S. | |
| me? I dunno... 2003-02-24, 6:29 pm |
| USNSTINGER, ponder this...
It's an oft overlooked fact that Hitler ran his luftwaffe on aviation fuel, the existance of which was made possible by access to tetraethyl lead supplied by Rockefeller's Standard Oil of New Jersey (Chevron).
In fact, the bombing of Great Britain would have been greatly restricted if only corporate America could have forgone the opportunity to make a quick buck.
As for Henry Ford, the great American capitalist, his admiration for Adolph Hitler is widely known, as is the assistance rendered to the Nazi's by Ford Motor Company. Yes it is true that many people, from many different nations, were killed by people riding in vehicles made available to Nazi soldiers courtesy of Henry Ford.
The French resistance was and is held in the highest regard by soldiers of all nations involved in the second world war. Their demonstration of courage and determination in the face of overwhelmingly superior military strength is the stuff of legend and will serve to compliment the French culture for centuries to come.
There are many English pilots whose return home would not have been possible without French citizens risking their lives in order to help.
In fact, to this day, even in America, the term 'Partisan', as in politics, means sticking to your position no matter how badly you are getting beat up.
'The Partisans' were the French Underground, and even when the Nazi's were rounding them up and shooting them in the streets, they still never gave up.
In fact, the French have quite a history of resisting Nazi's.
and no, I'm not French.
rant over...
Liusjo, If you bothered to try reading any of the posts you would realize how much fun it is to have to scroll to read each sentence. I'm sure posting big pictures is great fun, but there must be someplace else you could do that. | |
| BlokWatch 2003-02-25, 12:57 am |
| USNStinger: If I recall, you claim to be a vet. A fact that is either untrue or one that I'm ashamed of. You may have skimmed through a few books, or glanced at a couple of charts. But your certainly not well read on the subject. Your statements reflect your ignorance. For you to look back and only see who you think owes us what is astounding. Perhaps you forget WW2 ravaged Europe for 5 years before Normandy. If you see no merit in Britain's relentless airwar and the Russia's determination to hold Stalingrad, then perhaps you should have used you GI Bill more effectively. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-02-25, 3:23 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by usnstinger lol, yours should say:
Every morning when I wake I thank the Lord I'm an Englishman that doesn't speak german thx to the U.S.
Had we lost the Battle of Britain , Id dare say we would have been. But we didn't. Of course Im greatfull to your great Grandfathers generation for helping us ( Im assuming you are around 12 years old by your posts ). you, however I owe Fcuk all to. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-02-25, 3:25 am |
| . | |
| bearing 2003-02-25, 3:36 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by usnstinger
lol, yours should say:
Every morning when I wake I thank the Lord I'm an Englishman that doesn't speak german thx to the U.S.
Yes, very good you should get a gold star for such wit.
Strange thing is the language you're attempting to use has it's roots in Germanic languages.
If you would like to check your history books, you'll find that Britain is a mixing pot of many nations. I am of Anglo Saxon descent, notice the word saxon now let me think where on this earth would the Saxon part come from, it sounds very much like Saxony, now let me think isn't Saxony a part of Germany..
Oh and hang on didn't the Anglo part of Anglo Saxon come from the Angles, who I think could have come from....Germany.
So you see the nation known as England was born of Germanic people, and thus the language you speak has it's roots in Germany.
But I wouldn't expect you to have known these facts as the extent of your Historical knowledge only seems to get as far as the Eastern and Western Seaboards...
Oh and by the way I do speak a little bit of German, something I picked up while at school. | |
| usnstinger 2003-02-25, 7:11 am |
| blokwatch,hooligan,bearing if you dont like my quote i suggest turning quotes off, ask the nearest grown up to show you how. | |
| mindmesh 2003-02-25, 7:52 am |
| A lot of Venom in this thread.. | |
| HOOLIGAN 2003-02-25, 7:58 am |
| Sigh,
usnstinger, Im glad the majority of your countrymen don't have the same point of view as you. Otherwise this great Nation of yours would surely lose a true friend and ally. | |
| luisjo 2003-02-25, 8:07 am |
| I found why the french are not willing to go to war against Iraq. First i dont think because they are chickens, nope. The true story behind all these is that in 1990 or around that year france was doing nuclear weapon development with iraq in iraq, i think the onu tell them not to but remember that some countries give a s h i t what the onu says, i think thats what they are afraid of.
maybe mister chirac is eating onion soup with hussein and assure him that nothing would happend.
http://www.mundomatero.com/proyectos/cristel/magicsp.gif | |
| theshewolf 2003-02-25, 10:03 am |
| This whole topic, no matter what the thread, blows my mind.
The radically pro-Americans are just like..."US is the only country worth anything and I'm entitled to me opinion, but you can't have yours."
usnstinger, you are a disgrace to the American people. It is people like you, with your vitriolic rhetoric, who insult our allies and cause them to distance themselves from us. Who WANTS an alliance with someone spewing forth verbal filth and insults? | |
| kwinstrand 2003-02-25, 10:41 am |
| First off - there's way too much stupid mudslinging going on around here for anybody to have an intelligent conversation.
Secondly - I've done my fair share of bashing countries that don't fall in line with our (American) opinions, but they're entitled to their own.
Thirdly - The French cannot and will not support this war, as Iraq owes them boatloads of money. If the US were in the same position, we might not be involved either.
The nature of government is to look out for the best intrests of either the government, or it's people. That's what the French are doing, and it's also what the US is doing. The US is not in this for oil, or for profit, although those may be perks. We're involved (IMHO) because someone who hates us and works closely with our enemies is developing arms that we think will be used against us and others in the near future. A secondary factor is that a war with Iraq will the world less (money and lives) than letting the mideast plumit into a major conflict when Sadam starts nuking his neighbors.
I'm sure it would be nice if all of Europe supported Bush, but he doesn't need their approval or their manpower, and he's going to procede without them if necessary. |
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