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how much $$ would you pay
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| Bernie 2002-07-26, 11:21 am |
| How much would you pay for this server below? I'm not looking to host a website but I'm looking into learning more about networking. This would be in my home and would be used as a learning tool.
Compaq Proliant 2500R
Dual P-Pro 200 processors
384MB RAM
Internal RAID-5 card
Internal SCSI card
CD-ROM
Floppy
10/100 NIC
(5) Compaq 4.3 Hot swappable hard drives (in 2500 cage)
(4) tape 4MM DAT Auto changer
(2) external SCSI connector cables
(1) external SCSI rack with (6) 4.3 SCSI drives
(1) external SCSI rack with (5) 4.3 SCSI drives and (1) free cage that needs ribbon repair
External SCSI racks are currently configured as follows: 1 rack connected to RAID-5 card for hardware RAID, 1 rack connected to SCSI card and set for software RAID-5 configuration.
System was running Windows 2000 Server, Exchange 2000, file services, print services, ArcServe 2000, IIS web server and very stable. | |
| Bernie 2002-07-26, 11:22 am |
| I forgot to mention, this is from a co-worker, so the relationship b/t buyer/seller is friends. | |
| Deja-vue 2002-07-26, 12:18 pm |
| You may not like it, but i would spend no more than $ 250 for it.
I hope, it is only for Testing.
A dual Pentium Pro 200 is still, ahem a 200.
Look what you can get for $599:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...item=2040259501
This Baby will eat your Pentium Pro alive. | |
| NetChild1985 2002-07-26, 12:31 pm |
| $500 | |
| Bernie 2002-07-26, 1:10 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Deja-vue
I hope, it is only for Testing.
Exactly, I'm unfamiliar with installing/config RAID, Exchange, DNS...
It would be my practice server. | |
| Nicole 2002-07-26, 1:17 pm |
| I agree... not much. You didn't specify the speed of the drives, or the capacity of the DAT drives (I'm guessing DDS-2). If the drives are as slow as I think, I'd pay about $200 and maybe a steak dinner, and gloriously hack away.
Running Win2K Server, this thing is going to be slow as a dog. | |
| thecomeons 2002-07-26, 1:24 pm |
| what would the minimum spec be for a cheap and nasty lab server for educational purposes? 500mhz cpu with 286mb ram? | |
| Deja-vue 2002-07-26, 2:39 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by thecomeons
what would the minimum spec be for a cheap and nasty lab server for educational purposes? 500mhz cpu with 286mb ram?
Just for Lab service to play around with?
A P II 300 with 256 megs of Ram will do just fine. 6 gig HD.Those are so easy to find.You throw in a couple of extra 2,1 gig Drives, so that AD can run on a seperate Drive,and you are set.Another 2,1 gig or even a 1 gig Drive for Remote-Installations.
I got an ISA Server running nicely, it is an old Dell PII 300 with 512 megs of Ram and a 9,1 gig SCSI Drive.
But if you try to connect to that ISA with 100 Users, i am sure, it will go on it's Knees. | |
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| azimuth40 2002-07-26, 2:56 pm |
| As I recall Compaq of that vintage are all proprietary. If something break you might be in a bind for documentation, service disks etc. I wonder how long HP will support this legacy stuff. I also wonder how much power this beast draws. Did I read that right 16 (sixteen) 4.3 gig drives?
I don't know about others places but a 4 tape autochanger even at DDS2 goes for at least the $200 others are quoting here in So Cal. However we must remember Ebay.
Comparing it to a desktop system probably is not good but a dual P Pro as I remember can keep up with a single P II 500 in a server environment. How well depends on the cache, if it is those 1meg cache jobs, the NASA may be looking for them. Press articles said they were grabbing vintage pentium stuff from EBay and other places.
If you mirror a couple of those racks it will still rip as a file server or database server. | |
| Nicole 2002-07-26, 3:29 pm |
| Most dual-processor machines run at about 150% faster than the speed of a single identical processor. (Fractal rendering and such tends to perform much faster than most dual-processing tasks, it's often a straight-up 200% improvement over single-processing.)
The Proliant 2500's were never high-end machines, they were considered a mid-range server, but this one has been substantially upgraded. This server had 512k cache, and (if I recall correctly) does not have a cache upgrade option available. I *think* this one came with a dual 333MHz option kit, but that was big $$$ Overall, 5 years ago this was about a $10,000 server setup.
You know, this wouldn't be a bad Linux machine.
Bernie, you know this is a RACK server, right? I don't recall precisely, but it may need a rack with a cooling fan. | |
| Deja-vue 2002-07-26, 3:29 pm |
| quote:
[i]is not good but a dual P Pro as I remember can keep up with a single P II 500 in a server environment. [/B]
When did they make a P II 500 ??? | |
| thecomeons 2002-07-26, 3:52 pm |
| quoting deja:
"Just for Lab service to play around with?
A P II 300 with 256 megs of Ram will do just fine. 6 gig HD.Those are so easy to find.You throw in a couple of extra 2,1 gig Drives, so that AD can run on a seperate Drive,and you are set.Another 2,1 gig or even a 1 gig Drive for Remote-Installations.
I got an ISA Server running nicely, it is an old Dell PII 300 with 512 megs of Ram and a 9,1 gig SCSI Drive.
But if you try to connect to that ISA with 100 Users, i am sure, it will go on it's Knees."
network+ is my next cert. do i need AD for that, or where u thinking about a specific MCSE cert? if so, what?
oh, and are there any particular sausages u miss being in america and all? LOL. | |
| Deja-vue 2002-07-26, 4:12 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by thecomeons
quoting deja:
"Just for Lab service to play around with?
A P II 300 with 256 megs of Ram will do just fine. 6 gig HD.Those are so easy to find.You throw in a couple of extra 2,1 gig Drives, so that AD can run on a seperate Drive,and you are set.Another 2,1 gig or even a 1 gig Drive for Remote-Installations.
I got an ISA Server running nicely, it is an old Dell PII 300 with 512 megs of Ram and a 9,1 gig SCSI Drive.
But if you try to connect to that ISA with 100 Users, i am sure, it will go on it's Knees."
network+ is my next cert. do i need AD for that, or where u thinking about a specific MCSE cert? if so, what?
oh, and are there any particular sausages u miss being in america and all? LOL.
Oh well, sorry
I was thinking MCSE Stuff. I don't know if you guys in Network+ work with Active Directory or not.
But anyways, for a Lab, a P II 300 would be the absolut minimum for me, and they are quiet affordable.
I do not miss any Sausage, no... I enjoy a good, thick juicy american Steak and some Warsteiners with it.
You Guys from England remember, what real meat taste like?
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| thecomeons 2002-07-26, 4:19 pm |
| real meat tastes like dead animals, man.
i'm not what u would call one of those guys that likes it done rare. i normally have to tell the waiter/ess to hand it to me burnt to make sure it's cooked right.
roasted in onions and stock is usually the way i like my meat. but i can dig it fried too. none of that white-meat for me. beef, pork, lamb in that order. | |
| azimuth40 2002-07-26, 6:51 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Deja-vue
When did they make a P II 500 ???
opps the I I I's have it. Never type and talk to students at the same time | |
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| NetChild1985 2002-07-27, 12:36 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Deja-vue
See... there is a S***er for every machine...
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| TW2001 2002-07-27, 1:30 am |
| Pay it no mind Net Child.....Deja is typically arrogant.
This server pieced out will get you a hell of a lot more than $250.Those drives fetch between 30-50 alone and there a lots of people who will buy them.It proably also has redundant power supplies and fans.Might be a good investment? The tape drives and the Hdrive raid configs would be a hell of a lot of fun for you though 
http://www.compaq.com/products/servers/proliant2500r/
There is the specs..so we dont have to rely on our memory.Oh and you will need a rack to mount it...not to cool it. | |
| NetChild1985 2002-07-27, 1:43 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by TW2001
Deja is typically arrogant.
Exactly!
quote:
[S***er?????
What the hell's got into you, DEJA-VUE? | |
| azimuth40 2002-07-27, 8:08 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by TW2001
http://www.compaq.com/products/servers/proliant2500r/
There is the specs..so we dont have to rely on our memory.Oh and you will need a rack to mount it...not to cool it.
Nice picture, I could hang some of my Cisco stuff in that cabinet. Some interesting notes following the links. It looks like you can still buy parts BUT the services WEB page for this particular model is a dead link "Sorry the page you have requested...." Maybe someone at Q saw us talking about it and said "Quick take that page down, single users will be looking for it"  | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by TW2001
Pay it no mind Net Child.....Deja is typically arrogant.
I thought the comment directed at Netchild was uncalled for as well.
I guess then I'm a sucker too Deja, because I'd pay a heck of a lot more than $250 for it. I was unaware that Ebay has become the standard by which system re-sale value is measured.
Did you take a real close look as to what Bernie was getting compared to the "smokin'" PIII on Ebay. That dual P-Pro 200 with 384 Megs would hold it's own against that PIII 550 with 128 Megs as a file/print server and as a DC as well. Plus with the external hardware RAID, all those SCSI drives and a tape drive unit, it's worth just as much, if not more as that $599 Ebay special. (IMHO)
Flame me if you want but I'd pay $500 - $1000 for it. There are still tons of companies that have their RAID's setup using those 4.3 Compaq (I'm pretty sure those are 10,000RPM Seagate Barracuda) SCSI drives. What a great system to be able to test things out on. As TW said, you could have lots of fun with this system, setting up the hardware RAID arrays, messing around with the Tape unit, etc...
Best of luck Bernie! | |
| Deja-vue 2002-07-27, 12:28 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Spid
I thought the comment directed at Netchild was uncalled for as well.
I guess then I'm a sucker too Deja, because I'd pay a heck of a lot more than $250 for it. I was unaware that Ebay has become the standard by which system re-sale value is measured.
Did you take a real close look as to what Bernie was getting compared to the "smokin'" PIII on Ebay. That dual P-Pro 200 with 384 Megs would hold it's own against that PIII 550 with 128 Megs as a file/print server and as a DC as well. Plus with the external hardware RAID, all those SCSI drives and a tape drive unit, it's worth just as much, if not more as that $599 Ebay special. (IMHO)
Flame me if you want but I'd pay $500 - $1000 for it. There are still tons of companies that have their RAID's setup using those 4.3 Compaq (I'm pretty sure those are 10,000RPM Seagate Barracuda) SCSI drives. What a great system to be able to test things out on. As TW said, you could have lots of fun with this system, setting up the hardware RAID arrays, messing around with the Tape unit, etc...
Best of luck Bernie!
Sorry to hear that you Guys think of me that way.
Ok, the Dual-Pentium Pro 200 contains many SCSI-Drives.Who says they are 10.000 RPM Barracudas???
When they did make the Pentium-Pros(think back in 1997, if i am not mistaken)there wasn't even a 10.000 RPM Drive around.
I compared the Prices with E-Bay and Pricewatch, because thats where i buy my Stuff.If you sell Hardware in the Market today, you got to stay competitive.
And the Rack is just not what i call a screamer.
Nicole, who is very knowledgeble, when it comes to Hardware,was on her Price even lower than me.
But the Fact, that she is a Lady, you Guys don't even question her Opinion.
When i make comments like "there is a S***er for every machine" , this should not be taken too seriously and i do apologize from the bottom of my heart for this imature comment. No-one bothers that i am getting Crap from People who make fun of the Fact that i am German, living in the US.
The Fact, however that i got attacked from Spid hurts the most.
I put him right up there with wbafrank,freak,Skye and other highly qualified professionals, when it come to Respect.
Perhaps i will re-think my strategies and withdraw from this Board for a few Month.
Wish you guys all the Best! | |
| Nicole 2002-07-27, 12:59 pm |
| All on good fun folks, right? Don't take off Deja, I don't think any of the comments were personal.
quote:
Nicole, who is very knowledgeble, when it comes to Hardware,was on her Price even lower than me.
But the Fact, that she is a Lady, you Guys don't even question her Opinion.
Are you kidding? TW insinuated that I didn't know a "rack" was for mounting, without paying attention to the fact that many rack-mount servers don't have built-in cooling, and you have to buy a rack with a cooling fan instead. Sheese.
As a lab machine, this is great. As a functioning server... well, there a reason why it's for sale. It's too slow to even consider having it in a business environment, and it's not worth upgrading. It's not just the processor, the RAM, motherbaord, etc are all substantially slower than anything you'd see even in a commercial desktop machine today.
And I wouldn't even consider paying $50 for 4.3GB proprietary hot-swap drive (and I think they are Seagates, Spid), when I just bought a new Compaq 18GB 15,000 rpm hot-swap for $200. I only have 8 drive bays, and 4.3GB drives just aren't worth the space. I wouldn't use 'em for FREE. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Deja-vue
Sorry to hear that you Guys think of me that way.
Ok, the Dual-Pentium Pro 200 contains many SCSI-Drives.Who says they are 10.000 RPM Barracudas???[B]
Those were typically the drives Compaq supplied for the 2500 and 3000 ProLiants.
quote:
When they did make the Pentium-Pros(think back in 1997, if i am not mistaken)there wasn't even a 10.000 RPM Drive around.
There were 10,000 RPM SCSI's around back then.
quote:
When i make comments like "there is a S***er for every machine" , this should not be taken too seriously and i do apologize from the bottom of my heart for this imature comment. No-one bothers that i am getting Crap from People who make fun of the Fact that i am German, living in the US.
The Fact, however that i got attacked from Spid hurts the most.
Deja, My apologizes if you feel that I "attacked" you. I thought your sucker comment (which was directed specifically at Netchild, (IMHO)) was really uncalled for. You quoted him, and you did not include any emoticons or whatever those smiley's are called to indicate that it was a tongue and cheek comment. That's why I thought it was directed at NetChild or anyone else who would consider paying around $500 bucks for the system.
When I originally looked at Bernie's system I said $500+ and took your comment seriously. Ya, it ticked me off a little, so I felt that I needed to reply. As for the German living in the US ribbing, I thought that stuff ended after the world cup and the hatchet was burried. Are you saying that crap is still going on??
quote:
I put him right up there with wbafrank,freak,Skye and other highly qualified professionals, when it come to Respect.
Thanks for the kind words (although I don't consider myself that worthy ). It was never my intention to "attack" you. Again my apologizes if that is how it came off.
quote:
Perhaps i will re-think my strategies and withdraw from this Board for a few Month.
Wish you guys all the Best!
Do what you feel you have to do. However, you'd be missed if you withdrew from the board.
Again, my apologizes Deja Vue. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
And I wouldn't even consider paying $50 for 4.3GB proprietary hot-swap drive (and I think they are Seagates, Spid), when I just bought a new Compaq 18GB 15,000 rpm hot-swap for $200. I only have 8 drive bays, and 4.3GB drives just aren't worth the space. I wouldn't use 'em for FREE.
Even though (in the case of Bernie's machine) you'd only be able to allocate 4.3 Gig worth of that new $200 18 Gig SCSI in the existing RAID currently populated entirely by 4.3 Gig drives, you'd pay the $200 instead of $30-50 for the 4.3 SCSI? | |
| RichardJW 2002-07-27, 7:43 pm |
| quote:
.Originally posted by deja-vue
The Fact, however that i got attacked from Spid hurts the most.
I put him right up there with wbafrank,freak,Skye and other highly qualified professionals, when it come to Respect.
That is among the most elitist, pompous crap I hear in my life. Maybe you should take a breather. This fainthearted stuff that you're going to disappear for a few months? You think you're appealing to my emotions? I just don't buy. I don't give a damn what car you drive. You should consider what you post. I know I do. | |
| azimuth40 2002-07-27, 8:20 pm |
| Most unfortunate! I am sorry that this is getting heated to the point of someone of Deja's value leaving. This is the second heated thread that I have seen in a week.
Trying to bring this back on track, assuming it is a functioning server, I find it hard to believe that as a departmental server with lets say SQL 7 or 2000 and even a hundred users that anyone is going to find it slow. As a WEB server serving Flash animations then sure look elsewhere.
Where is anyone finding a system for $500 that matches it. The eBay one is not it and since it did not sell, others agreed. The Compaq comes with software. Maybe I am assuming that with 16 drives that is at least a single channel ultra wide SCSI RAID; cheapest price $300 if you are lucky. Of course the raid controller could be in the external rack.
Four tape autochanger $200 minimum even at the repair with 90 day warrantee houses. $200 for a 18 Gig to go in 4.3 gig arrays seems a strange choice. It is our local expensive sports car (your pick) in rush hour argument, you're still doing 10mph. If anyone around needs them then $50 is reasonable. That is the going price again at the repair houses.
I also looked at the link posted and clicked on the system spec PDF (surprised to find it) and the drives were/are offered in 7200 or 10,000 RPM speeds. The press releases seem to imply that was an always. To be fair Q sells upgrades to 18Gig drives. Whether the argument of why upgrade the drives stands on its own is probably a separate issue. But the point is the controller does handle it.
55-57 chevy's don't have air conditioning but they sure are popular where I live even in the 90-100F of So. Cal.
Build the system based on price, and intended function, then argue. The hottest counter strike, or unreal tournament desktop is not the arena that we should be discussing. | |
| Nicole 2002-07-27, 8:41 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Spid
Even though (in the case of Bernie's machine) you'd only be able to allocate 4.3 Gig worth of that new $200 18 Gig SCSI in the existing RAID currently populated entirely by 4.3 Gig drives, you'd pay the $200 instead of $30-50 for the 4.3 SCSI?
Heh heh, good point. But I don't have that problem in the case of that 18GB drive. We had 9's, so I started a new array.
But then again, why would (in a production environment) you continue to babysit an array that small with obsolete drives, when you can replace them for cheaper than trying to maintain them? | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
...But then again, why would (in a production environment) you continue to babysit an array that small with obsolete drives, when you can replace them for cheaper than trying to maintain them?
Good point Nicole, it always gets to that point in the game at some time doesn't it? | |
| TW2001 2002-07-28, 12:26 am |
| This never was about what was suited for a production environment. Nor was it a competition.
I think Richard more than adequately summed up the Deja issue. The intial comments were just plain rude..and then were furthered by if your not on his respect list...you dont matter. I dont know german but I am willing to bet translated, the comments are just as rude. | |
| RichardJW 2002-07-28, 4:08 am |
| quote:
I think Richard more than adequately summed up the Deja issue. The intial comments were just plain rude..and then were furthered by if your not on his respect list...you dont matter. I dont know german but I am willing to bet translated, the comments are just as rude.
On reflection what I wrote last night was too harsh. The issue was the way he dealt with it, though whether he is aware that he is dealing with one of the youngest active members I yet do not know. Nobody wants deja-vue to leave because he has things of value to say.
By the way, whether something or not sells at eBay is not a criteria. I expect most times what you sell there barely gets viewed by anyone. I'd never buy any second hand hardware from eBay. | |
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| $200 tops. Because you mentioned it was a friend. Otherwise, probably more like $150. This is obsolete technology, so the prices do not hold up very well.
Check out www.auctiondepot.com they have plenty of machines like those that come off lease and that you can buy for peanuts - although remember that they ship from Canada... | |
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| I think we all can just agree to disagree.
Bottom line: I and others believe the system to have more value than a mere $150-200. Others believe it is only worth around $200.
I, for one, am through debating the issue. I think it's time to move on. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by Bernie
How much would you pay for this server below? I'm not looking to host a website but I'm looking into learning more about networking. This would be in my home and would be used as a learning tool.
Compaq Proliant 2500R
Dual P-Pro 200 processors
384MB RAM
Internal RAID-5 card
Internal SCSI card
CD-ROM
Floppy
10/100 NIC
(5) Compaq 4.3 Hot swappable hard drives (in 2500 cage)
(4) tape 4MM DAT Auto changer
(2) external SCSI connector cables
(1) external SCSI rack with (6) 4.3 SCSI drives
(1) external SCSI rack with (5) 4.3 SCSI drives and (1) free cage that needs ribbon repair
External SCSI racks are currently configured as follows: 1 rack connected to RAID-5 card for hardware RAID, 1 rack connected to SCSI card and set for software RAID-5 configuration.
System was running Windows 2000 Server, Exchange 2000, file services, print services, ArcServe 2000, IIS web server and very stable.
$250.00 Max.
You can currently get New Surplus Stock Quad 450 Xeons W/1 Gb Registerted PC100 in a 5U case for $499.00
The rest of the config. matches the dual 200's except you only get 2 HD's, but there is room for 7 total on the HS backplane.
That is what the hardware is currently selling for.
What is it worth to you.
| |
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| quote:
Originally posted by tohrt
You can currently get New Surplus Stock Quad 450 Xeons W/1 Gb Registerted PC100 in a 5U case for $499.00
The rest of the config. matches the dual 200's except you only get 2 HD's, but there is room for 7 total on the HS backplane.
where? I may have to get a couple | |
| enforcer 2002-07-29, 5:04 am |
| well well well, looks like i can get my nice large steak well done on this thread with so much flaming going on.
here comes my 200$(inflated ego of worth) on the subject.
firstly everyone seems to have missed the point, the original poster wants it to test at home, not put into production, therefore the speed is not really an issue, the bundle comes with plenty for him to play with.
Value is therefore down to what amount his is prepared to spend to play and learn, my opinion, (note have to convert £ to $) Deja was correct if it was to go to a buisiness, but for home experiment and as it was from a friend (always bad idea selling and buying from friends) $400-$500.
as for Deja's comments, if anyone has been on this board for any amount of time (and i see those that were involved had in excess of 500+posts) will know that deja like many of us says comments tongue in cheek, and usually include the smileys to indicate such, although the smileys should not be necessary.
I hope deja hasn't taken this too much to heart abnd still continues to read and post, because I for one like to pit my wits, wit and knowledge against him.
I now step off my soap box. | |
| Bernie 2002-07-29, 6:52 am |
| Thank You for all of your replies, I respect everyone's opinion on this matter. | |
| Bernie 2002-07-29, 11:15 am |
| He's going to sell it to me for $350. and I don't have to pay him until Oct. My boss has already offered $100. for the tape autoloader, which sounds like a deal to me.
I'M SOO STOKED!!! | |
| freak 2002-07-29, 11:29 am |
| awesome news! Enjoy the tinkering | |
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| Cool - Have fun with it !!
If it did not come with / Or it is the older version of -
You might want to download & burn to disk all the Docs, Utilities, Drivers, etc.... for the RAID controller while they are still posted on the mfgs. web sight. The controllers can be a little ornery to configure without the utilities disk some times.
Many have a bootable iso image.
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