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Home > Archive > General Discussion > April 2002 > IT School Nightmares
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IT School Nightmares
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| GByeMCSE 2002-03-18, 2:34 pm |
| Just interested if I am alone in this:
A year ago I was asked at an IT school to teach a Net+ course with eight computers and 25 students. When I protested my job was threatened (I ended up leaving after that term anyway). In the two years I taught I can honestly say that I spent more time fixin PC (P133 with 32 megs of ram for the most classes...this was in 2001!). I saw instructors who had no clue of what they were doing. I taught at a school where SENIORS had no Idea of what TCP/IP was. I saw these same students paying 24% interest on loans and being charged over a thousand dollars per class. They give entrance exams and take students who do not have the aptitude to pass the course but some how passed their entrance exam.
It was almost heartbreaking to hear a salesperson talk about 50-80K careers to prospective students.
Was wondering what any other experiences were from? I taught at computer Learning center who is now bankrupt but the students are still stuck with paying their loans from an utterly worthless training. | |
| GByeMCSE 2002-03-18, 2:42 pm |
| Luckily for them they didn't need me to teach them how to spell....sorry | |
| eric1971 2002-03-18, 3:23 pm |
| I attended a technical college and had a very good experience. The equipment was new and the instructors were knowledgeable. They did not make promises of exorbitant salaries. I earned my A.A.S. degree in Computer Information Science. When I was finished, they helped me find the job that I have now.
This is not to say that everyone that attends school there gets a job. I had to work hard and take advantage of the recourses I had access to. I also saw many students that were wasting their money because they were not committed. Some seamed to think that just getting a degree was going to get them their dream job, making “big bucks”. Apparently, it never occurred to them that they would actually have to know what they were doing. | |
| GByeMCSE 2002-03-18, 3:36 pm |
| There are several good schools, I've taken courses at CC's, etc and been satisfied, All I am saying is that there are a number of schools that took a lot of advantage during the IT boom. Obiviously you worked hard and achieved some success, but your school also held up their end of the bargain by providing quallity equipment. If you have enthusiastic students and quality instruction and equipment then you have a great recipe. I always saw it as the end result should be an employed technician. I feel like schools are obligated to provide Instruction and Equipment but if that doesn't happen I don't think it matters how enthusiastic the students are. They may get a job because of exceptional aptitude or commitment but the institution did not do what it was supposed to do.
My issue with CLC and other institutions is their inability to provide equipment and instructors while promoting it.
Glad your experience was a good one | |
| eric1971 2002-03-18, 3:51 pm |
| I did a lot of research before I decided what school to go to, and it paid off. I have also heard some sad stories of schools taking a students money, and not giving a whole lot in return. A guy I worked with at my previous job was attending a technical school (not the one I went to) to learn computer networking. He had the same instructor for every coarse. They started out learning about A+ type stuff, which the instructor seamed to be knowledgeable in. But when they got to the actual networking classes, the instructor informed the class that they would have to “bare with him” because he would be “learning about this also.” | |
| Psydefx 2002-03-18, 4:38 pm |
| Caveat emptor. People don't do enough research when they are buying or selling these days. The first school I trained at did what they called "Instructor Assisted" Training. This was giving the students a CBT and having a "certified" trainer available if they had any questions. I heard sales calls where the manager and lead trainer (who was less certified than I was - had only one test passed, and on an outdated platform at that) was talking about what it takes to get certified. I left there within 2 months, and have always interviewed the center before teaching. The only exception is when you contract through a broker... roll the dice. I've only had one class blow up on me, but I really count myself lucky.
As for training centers now a days, there are a few that are starting to feel the pain of being a marketing machine and not focusing on the satisfaction of the customers. One really big chain recently lost a 2M client because of quality. Hmmmmm I guess people are getting smarter. There are also laws going into effect that are going to find the medium ground for ed ctrs.
There is always good and bad, but likely, the more you research, the more value your money will have. | |
| Benoit 2002-03-19, 3:20 am |
| I'm currently at a crossroads in my life trying to decide which direction to turn.
One way, I can go to a CTEC school where they guarantee you job placement and they are good jobs. Of course you have to fulfill requirements to get a guaranteed job, I have enough ambition to get over this obstacle though. As far as I can tell, it is a credible offer.
Another way, I can go back to school for probably about 2 years and get my Bachelor's degree. Would take me longer, yet I would have something that is highly desired from employers. This is a tried and true method to good careers and is another option I am thinking of.
With the market like it is right now, it is extremely tough to get a foot in the door. Even with a B.S. degree(Computer Science) you can't seem to get in the industry unless you know someone it seems. Of course in the time it would take to attain my B.S. degree(about 2 years), the market might be completely different. No one knows for sure. The Tech school is a tempting offer, and I am still considering it.
I'm visiting the college this week. Maybe if it works out I'll be in college by summer. Or tech school by summer for that matter. | |
| Psydefx 2002-03-19, 3:28 am |
| Go to college and take your certification. All the while working little weekend contracts and maybe a part time support gig. After 2 years, you'll have it all, and the experience too... (if the consulting thing works really well, you can concentrate on it)..
Hope this helps.
Cheers! | |
| The VMS Kid 2002-03-19, 6:23 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Benoit
. . . a CTEC school where they guarantee you job placement
This should cause alarm bells to go off in your head . . . no one can GUARANTEE you a job . . . | |
| jombeewoof 2002-03-19, 8:26 am |
| I went to computer learning center and the equipement was pretty good (P2 400 or better back in '00) and the teachers I had knew their stuff pretty well.
one day I went to class and the doors were closed (so I went across the country having a good time) It sucked but at least I had all my loans wiped away. | |
| richarjm 2002-03-19, 8:46 am |
| I went to CLC and actually got alot out of it.. Of course I stayed 2 hours extra every day to study and redo labs (over and over)and set up a network at home so I could do the same.
I left there with a CNA and an MSCE. But I didnt rely on just the instructors..I did alot of outside study too. Luckily the first instructor I had told us "Look at CLC as a really exspensive way to get your feet wet in networking and learn some about Cisco routers as soon as you can!" and I took it an ran with it.Drove everyone there nuts with questions and stuff too 
But, 2 years later Im in that pay bracket they promised and I love what I do. | |
| Bobby Digital 2002-03-19, 10:02 am |
| First of all, NO technical college or training center can guarentee a job after completing their program. Secondly, the students have to take the initative to LEARN the material. Too many go in there with the wrong attitude and expectations.
I am a part-time instructor at a technical college and I tell them all the time that if they want to start a career in IT, you have to get serious about it. You can't just learn enough to pass a test or class. You have to take the lab work seriously. You have to work on stuff outside of class. I have students who want to be hardware technicians, but are afraid to work on the inside of a computer. I have some older students who don't even know how to properly use a mouse or navigate basically around Windows.
I usually recommend to students to concentrate on their degree first (and getting a entry-level job) and then certifications afterward so that they can focus on one thing. A few have taken my advice and are actually getting off on the right foot.
BD | |
| eric1971 2002-03-19, 10:48 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Digital
First of all, NO technical college or training center can guarentee a job after completing their program. Secondly, the students have to take the initative to LEARN the material. Too many go in there with the wrong attitude and expectations.
I am a part-time instructor at a technical college and I tell them all the time that if they want to start a career in IT, you have to get serious about it. You can't just learn enough to pass a test or class. You have to take the lab work seriously. You have to work on stuff outside of class. I have students who want to be hardware technicians, but are afraid to work on the inside of a computer. I have some older students who don't even know how to properly use a mouse or navigate basically around Windows.
I usually recommend to students to concentrate on their degree first (and getting a entry-level job) and then certifications afterward so that they can focus on one thing. A few have taken my advice and are actually getting off on the right foot.
BD
I agree 100%. | |
| Psydefx 2002-03-19, 10:57 am |
| There is, contrary to popular belief, a company that I know of that in today's day and age... guarantee employment. They do this as described above, they pick the cream of the crop, and hire them.
They also do the consulting business to back it up. They also require that every employee attain and maintain an MCSE. I have found only one, but they are growing, and have presence in about half the states. They also have a pretty good training philosophy.
PS If you don't stay after class, you won't get the job... just for the record, I don't work there, I havn't done a contract there, I just know some people who work there.
Hope this helps.
Cheers! | |
| The VMS Kid 2002-03-19, 11:49 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Psydefx
There is, contrary to popular belief, a company that I know of that in today's day and age... guarantee employment. They do this as described above, they pick the cream of the crop, and hire them.
They also do the consulting business to back it up. They also require that every employee attain and maintain an MCSE. I have found only one, but they are growing, and have presence in about half the states. They also have a pretty good training philosophy.
PS If you don't stay after class, you won't get the job... just for the record, I don't work there, I havn't done a contract there, I just know some people who work there.
Hope this helps.
Cheers!
Where is this place? the army? | |
| Psydefx 2002-03-19, 12:03 pm |
| Well, actually, the Army has a great education program, get your PhD for free from a named college...
But no, a consulting company born in Charlotte NC, just opened an office here in Chi. Solid Computer Decisions. The concept is solid, the company is privately owned, and from everything I've read or seen, the only thing they look for is non-abbherant behavior patterns and a determination to learn and be a team player.
Hope this helps.
Cheers! | |
| Benoit 2002-03-20, 4:52 am |
| That's the company I was looking into, Psydefx. And yeah, that's maybe the one thing that I've heard consistently about that company that sounds like a catch maybe. I hear you have to stay lots of extra hours sometimes, during training and once you have the job. I don't mind being a good worker at all. What I do mind is not having any free time to enjoy myself. Money isn't everything.
I'm still looking into college. I don't think an A.S. degree(what I have) is going to cut it for a career(maybe A.S. and certs would). Still weighing out my options. | |
| Psydefx 2002-03-20, 5:24 am |
| Cool! Keep it alive, and strive.
Cheers! | |
| jesse222 2002-04-25, 8:38 pm |
| Beware and steer clear!!!
SCD will give you a job once you complete your certification....but they will often try to get rid of you quickly to open up another spot. And if you are lucky enough to get to stay you can look forward to 70 hour workweeks with no extra compensation. Most of the offices are now closed (supposedly temporarily) because they aren't able to make payroll. | |
| mcoates 2002-04-25, 9:40 pm |
| The IT bubble has burst, and backs up what I have been saying for years...just because you have a job in IT doesnt mean you are skilled.
Many companies employed people only because they werent offering enough for skilled or the right people.
Fixing PC's and playing with them does not in itself make you an IT professional, nor does teaching a course.
A professional has qualifications that can be benchmarked like Cisco and Microsoft and has experience in proper IT environments.
If you are asking the question college vs. certs...the answer is this...(I have both experience, college and certs)
- Certs esp Microsoft are only valid for that platform or about 2 years until the co decides to upgrade the program or platform.
ASK - is the raise you get from all that work, worth the money and time spent getting them?)
- Some certs are worth more than others, Microsoft esp. because they will help get your foot in the door for that first job, but keep going because they are worth shite after a year or 2...
- Dont waste your time doing a cert that isnt really related to your job, a cert is a good way of proving what you know through job experience...so if youre using Cisco, qualify in it, and like wise with Novell or Checkpoint.
NO-ONE pays a greenhorn with CCNP on Paper 50k!!!
- A cert on its own will not allow you to get into that field...hardly anyone employs green people to work on platforms..esp telcos.
- The guy with the degree will usually win over the guy with certs (degree says bigger ambition to employers, cert says technical guru...better leave him where he is in the equipment room)
- If you are going to spend comparable money on certs to a degree, do the degree, its with you for life, certs aren't.
- If you want to make mgmt ...a degree will help, a cert prob wont.
- Dont for for one minute assume you know it all cos a piece of paper says so...I know a guy with certs and he still doesnt know how to ping!
- Dont assume you are worth x amount cos a survey says so.
Hope this helps, and its not meant to put anyone down or pick on their skills...these are my observations only.
mikey | |
| The VMS Kid 2002-04-26, 7:18 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by mcoates
The IT bubble has burst, and backs up what I have been saying for years...just because you have a job in IT doesnt mean you are skilled.
Many companies employed people only because they werent offering enough for skilled or the right people.
Fixing PC's and playing with them does not in itself make you an IT professional, nor does teaching a course.
A professional has qualifications that can be benchmarked like Cisco and Microsoft and has experience in proper IT environments.
If you are asking the question college vs. certs...the answer is this...(I have both experience, college and certs)
- Certs esp Microsoft are only valid for that platform or about 2 years until the co decides to upgrade the program or platform.
ASK - is the raise you get from all that work, worth the money and time spent getting them?)
- Some certs are worth more than others, Microsoft esp. because they will help get your foot in the door for that first job, but keep going because they are worth shite after a year or 2...
- Dont waste your time doing a cert that isnt really related to your job, a cert is a good way of proving what you know through job experience...so if youre using Cisco, qualify in it, and like wise with Novell or Checkpoint.
NO-ONE pays a greenhorn with CCNP on Paper 50k!!!
- A cert on its own will not allow you to get into that field...hardly anyone employs green people to work on platforms..esp telcos.
- The guy with the degree will usually win over the guy with certs (degree says bigger ambition to employers, cert says technical guru...better leave him where he is in the equipment room)
- If you are going to spend comparable money on certs to a degree, do the degree, its with you for life, certs aren't.
- If you want to make mgmt ...a degree will help, a cert prob wont.
- Dont for for one minute assume you know it all cos a piece of paper says so...I know a guy with certs and he still doesnt know how to ping!
- Dont assume you are worth x amount cos a survey says so.
Hope this helps, and its not meant to put anyone down or pick on their skills...these are my observations only.
mikey
Odd . . . my experience says the same thing! |
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