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Home > Archive > General Discussion > July 2001 > To Randy
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| cecide 2001-07-28, 3:36 pm |
| Randy, why do you let stuff like braindumps heat you up? People are going to do what they are going to do anyway. I agree with you as far as getting a job because of a cert you cheated your way through. I believe you are setting yourself up for failure. But I also have to agree with a previous post in that a kid straight out of college with no experience can get a good job and learn in about a year on how to do that job, because I am that person with no or little experience. I have a 4.0 grade point average and I am pursuing a dual degree in computer networking and MIS. I am very confident that I can get hired and bust my XXX and learn what I need to learn to get the job done. I love the field that I’m in. I can't convince myself that because I don't have 3 to 5 years of experience and BS degree that I can't do the job that the employer is advertising for. That is a bunch of BS. For example, I ran across an ad for help desk and they were paying 10 dollars an hour but they wanted you to be Microsoft A+ certified and have a BS in computer science. WHAT???? First of all they don't know that you get your A+ from Comptia and then who would settle for a help desk job with a computer science degree and 3 to 5 years experience for 10 dollars an hour. Do they not know that there are young intelligent people willing to put in the extra effort and learn what they need to learn to get the job done? Or are they expecting people not fitting the requirements to submit a resume anyway. I don't use braindumps personally but I can't really blame someone who does to qualify for a job in which they know they could learn with extra effort.
Not to make you angry Randy, I know with out a doubt in my mind that I can go into a job and replace someone who has been there for years. That’s how motivated I am. I did it a lot in the military and a lot on other jobs. No one can hold us back except for ourselves.
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| cecide 2001-07-28, 3:50 pm |
| Also I don't believe that A+ and Network+ are worthless. One of the jobs I received recently was through a Staffing agency that required you to have your A+ as a minimum. I told them that I had my Network+ cert and was getting my A+ by the end of the month. They gave me the job, which was contract through Compaq. I have to go to different sites and install POS (point of sale) computers. Through these jobs I have learned how to configure the IP, DNS, Gateway, address. Upgrade laser printers and connect them to the network, run network cable, configure switches in some situations, install proprietary software for wire transfer through the post office, workstation installation and so on. Yes, I didn't have any experience except for basic networking that I learned from school but I remained confident, took the job and worked my XXX off to get the job done. I was the only person there also, so I couldn’t ask someone for help when I got stuck except for tech support and I didn't want to call them because I wanted to learn on my own. I owe this to my pursuit of my A+ certification! | |
| TW2001 2001-07-29, 6:39 am |
| Convince yourself.Have a little more respect for people actually in the field. | |
| Techie2B 2001-07-29, 9:01 am |
| Cecide,
First let me appluad you for having the drive and attitude. That is why you will do well in this industry 
I wasn't going to hop on this bandwagon on dumps...it goes on and on, and people get all huffy and puffy. But I do want to say a few things.
Randy is a HUGE contributor, not only here but on countless other websites. He's an assest to all the websites he goes on with that abnormally large brain of his He's always around to answer questions and help people. I understand fully why he gets so 'heated up' over people who use braindumps. It's frustrating and annoying how people will go on and on convincing themselves that what they are doing is okay, really though it boils down to that individual and what they want to do, we can only 'suggest'. But don't take it that he's getting angry, I think he is more like me and others who are just frustrated. No matter how you look at it braindumps devalue the cert that others work for, and that is why people get upset. I'm not talking about people who know what they are doing, or have the experience blablabla, I mean the people who strickly want take the test and get that snazzzzzy piece of paper. I don't believe it has anything to do with people who know there stuff being worried that someone off the street with the piece of paper taking their job. Anyone can lose their job, period.
Just my five cents
I'm rambling on again | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by cecide
Not to make you angry Randy, I know with out a doubt in my mind that I can go into a job and replace someone who has been there for years.
So you are saying you could replace my boss, who has over 20 years of C programming/UNIX administration experience ? Good luck to you. Confidence is one thing, but egotism is another. If you think that you are going to go into any place and succeed with an attitude like that, good luck. I hear surgeons with no experience can replace veterans in no time as well (give or take a couple of patients). Would you trust your life to such a one? if your answer is "no" then try to think of how silly you sound. I have no doubt that you will succeed, but thinking that an attitude can replace years of experience is plain stupidity. No, you do not have to have years of experience to qualify for an entry level job, but you are certainly not going to go in and take over the company . . . even if you managed to own the company you would be dependant on other who actually knew what they were doing (and I have sen this occur in a few instances). Bottom line is that there is no replacement for skill. braindump your way through an exam, that is fine . . . just remember that the BD kiddies have trouble when it comes to actually delivering the goods. Sure, you can cheat your way through an exam . . . and when you get a job through lying, what do you think will happen? Will your employer wait three or four years for you to make up the deficiencies that you lied to them about? They will not only consider you as an incompetent, but a liar as well.
By the way, anybody out there need an air traffic controller? I have no experience and no knwoledge, but I learn really fast . . . I promise no more than two or three crashes and I will be an expert . . .
BTW, thanks Techie2B and TW2001 but there is no need to defend me. I know I irritate a lot of the people here, but if my nearly 3000 posts here don't say anything else about me, then nothing that you can say will help. Having completed most of the certs that I initially intended on getting, the main reason I stay here is to help others. If some are offended by my attitude, well, all I can say is sorry. Thanks anyway. | |
| cecide 2001-07-29, 2:07 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by TW2001
Convince yourself.Have a little more respect for people actually in the field.
What do you mean convince yourself? Have a little more respect for the people actually in the field???? | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by cecide
What do you mean convince yourself? Have a little more respect for the people actually in the field????
That statement could use a little elaboration . . . | |
| cecide 2001-07-29, 2:18 pm |
| Randy, I know you are a good person, you have answered a lot of my questions in this forum. And I don't use braindumps. And I know that I can't replace someone who knows something I don't. I'm not stupid!! All I was saying was not to let those people who use braindumps get under your skin becuase you can't change there attitude. Randy, I didn't mean to piss you off in any way. Maybe you guys didn't read all of my post, I don't know. I respect everyone in this forum for there opinions and expecially for the experience the posses or I wouldn't be here. The only thing I disagreed with you Randy is that you said that the A+ and Network+ was useless. It was like a slap in the face for those of us who are starting from this point and accualy want to learn and enjoy the field. Yes I did say that I could relace someone who has been working at a job for years but I mean a person who has been there and not put forth an effort to advance there knowledge and learn beyond their job requirements. Those are the ones I'm talking about. Give me a little credit guys. | |
| cecide 2001-07-29, 2:24 pm |
| quote:
Originally posted by Randy
By the way, anybody out there need an air traffic controller? I have no experience and no knwoledge, but I learn really fast . . . I promise no more than two or three crashes and I will be an expert . . .
By the way that was my job in the army, I was an air traffic controller. And I was a damn good one. That was the job I was referring to when I said that I replaced people in the military who had been doing the job longer than. I liked doing my job and was confident and they did the bare minimum. I didn't crash anyone and I was actually awarded for saving a pilots life at one of the busiest airfields in the military. | |
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| quote:
Originally posted by cecide
Randy, I know you are a good person, you have answered a lot of my questions in this forum. And I don't use braindumps. And I know that I can't replace someone who knows something I don't. I'm not stupid!! All I was saying was not to let those people who use braindumps get under your skin becuase you can't change there attitude. Randy, I didn't mean to piss you off in any way. Maybe you guys didn't read all of my post, I don't know. I respect everyone in this forum for there opinions and expecially for the experience the posses or I wouldn't be here. The only thing I disagreed with you Randy is that you said that the A+ and Network+ was useless. It was like a slap in the face for those of us who are starting from this point and accualy want to learn and enjoy the field. Yes I did say that I could relace someone who has been working at a job for years but I mean a person who has been there and not put forth an effort to advance there knowledge and learn beyond their job requirements. Those are the ones I'm talking about. Give me a little credit guys.
Chill dude, I know you ain't stupid. And if you know me at all, you knwo I don't get offended easily. The only thing nutty in your initial post that I read was that statement that you could replace ANYONE in the space of a few years . . . while I admire the confidence you must have to say such a thing, I have to admit that it really does sound a bit unreasonable (as I only WISH that I could do so!). As for those who do not advance beyond the intial requirements, of course you could replace them as it ibvious they do not care about their work. And no the A+ and Net+ are not valueless, but keep in mind they are introductory certs and only carry so much weight. They are OK to get your foot in the door, but both barely scratch the surface. I am continually reminded myself of how little I know as I read the posts in the forum, and am continually perplexed by those who seem to only want a "quick pass" as it were. My comments were not designed to offend. Sorry if they were construed as harsher than they were intended. And I admire anyone who goes through their exams "the hard way". | |
| cecide 2001-07-29, 2:31 pm |
| No harm done Randy, I know where you are coming from now. Oh by the way, did you read the post before your last. I bet you didn't think that I was an air traffic controller. If the military counts. | |
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| No, I just pulled that out of my head actually. I took the exams after I got out of college but never went on to do any work in that field as the job market in that area was already glutted or so I was told. I was thinking partly of ocpguys posts when I wrote that as well, about him thinking that dumps were good ideas. I dislike them as I think they are both unethical, and not very good if you are trying to LEARN something as well as just pass a 'requirement'. My boss doesn't have any certs, but he can code rings around me. HP-UX and network administration is just something he does on the side as it were. So I have plenty of respect for those years of experience of his. | |
| TW2001 2001-07-31, 11:15 pm |
| What I meant was oringinally the post seemed an effort to convince yourself of your own point.(cecide)...Im not going to dissect anything more of what you said.Your comments are common and typical of someone trying to enter the field.Tell me about getting the job done and replacing people when you actually get job in the field. |
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