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*Overkil...How many certifications is enough???*
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| This has been gnawing at me for a while and I really want to know. I want to know how many certifications is enough. I see people taking certification test left and right. The thing that gets me is that they are taking test that just to take test. For example, if a person is Microsoft or Novell certified, why take the Network+ test? If you are a trainer/instructor I can see it, but other than that it is overkill.
To me, the whole certification idea is losing it's luster. Why? All you have to do is buy a book, study...oops...MEMORIZE a few braindumps and BAM, you have a certification. The orginal purpose of certifications were to ENHANCE a person's experience with a product. It looks better to a recruiter to have a MCSE and have actual work experience with Microsoft products than to have a MCSE and no experience administrating a network.
It is a trip to see someone with a MCSE boast on how much they know about NT or 2000, but have not clue on actual hardware support or technologies scuh as UNIX. I know a guy who swears he was a NT guru. He had his MCSE and you couldn't tell him anything. That is until he had to deal with UNIX, shell scripting, and Perl. He didn't realize that it takes more than one product to run a network.
I know I jumped off the subject a little and I know that I will "offend" a few people, but I really want to know the truth about certification overkill. Does having five or six certifications really help your career? Is multiple certification better than an Associate or bachelor degree? WHASSUP?????????? | |
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| I think prospective employers like to see more certs on a resume. The more the better. But, the value placed on some certifications does seem too high in many cases. The value has to measured by an employer, or co-worker, in light of many things.
Is the interviewee familiar with our product?Most certification programs only introduce a tech to the operation of the product and familiarize the tech with the terms he/she will see in the field. I've usually found the "real world" scenario questions to be of narrow scope, but they at least serve to introduce some possible fixes. They are not a substitute for experience, and I can't see how they ever would be, unless a certain length of field experience is measured and required to earn the certification, but they can indicate what an individual's learning curve may be.
Does the tech have an ability to learn? Will they learn if presented with the opportunity? If a tech has more certs, or a college degree for that matter, on their resume, it doesn't mean he, or she, will be the better tech, rather it shows the person has motivation, ambition, and a willingness to learn. These are personal qualities that are difficult to measure in a 30 minute interview if a tech has only work experience or no education listed on his/her resume.
How well do they work with others? Personality should be a big factor as well. Most of my computer work has required a huge amount of customer interaction. You have to talk to a customer to learn about their problem and needs, and you should be, even at those all to often difficult moments, sensitive to a customer's needs and feelings. I've seen a couple techs who were much better technically than me get escorted to the office door because they have the personality of a horse's butt. The boss at my first computer job hired me because, "It is apparent that you can handle the customers, and we can teach you the rest."
Certainly, I believe there can be cert overkill. Many of the certs. are redundant, so some level of focus should be aimed for. As for me, if I interviewed someone who was certified out the wazoo, I would wander if other things in there personal life are suffering, which hints at some personality problems, in my book. There is much more to life than endless test-taking and working.
However, sometimes taking a redundant test seems reasonable. For example Net+ and Networking Essentials, one is a vendor neutral, non-retiring exam (right now anyway), and the other is Microsoft's and retires. If I'm job hunting between the NT 4 exams retiring and I just haven't had the time for the 2000
tests, then the Net+ will be a handy carry over. Also, much of the material is redundant, so taking both means less study time, and some good review.
Getting certified has ENHANCED my career, as has going to college, experience at work, and dealing with customers. All these things make me a more valuable employee, not the certifications alone. I, and many others, have moved up because the skills we possess make us valuable employees. And certs are one tool that is used to measure employees.
It sounds as if you've had bad experiences with a boastful MCSE who needs some deserved humbling. I find that I better not boast too loudly about what I know, in case I have to ask the guy next to me to help me with something that he DOES know, and I DON'T. But I've had those same bad experiences with workers who "have years of experience", and no certs.
By the way, I have a B.A. and a couple Associate degrees in Computer Science, but I believe I've learned more about computers self-studying for certification exams, but even more through experience. If it's as easy as a little memorization and "BAM" to get a cert, I've been going at it all wrong.
My opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
DarthW MCSE, MCP, A+, Net+, i-Net+, CDIA (These aren't listed to boast, only to show that I have some experience with certifying)
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| This is an interesting topic you bring up. I do believe at some point you can be overcertified, and just know a lot about nothing. I think as long as you're staying in your area of expertise it's OK to get as much certification as you can get. For example, if you're into networking then it looks to good to have CNE, MCSE, CCNA, and N+ on your resume. However a resume that looks like MCSD, MCSE, A+, OCP, CCNA might make me scratch my head and wonder how much they really know. On the other hand, if you have the project experiance to back it up then you're going to be considered very knowledge and deserving of your certification. After all, project experiance is really what it all boils down to. That's going to be what recruiters look at first. However, if you have no project experiance than certs are a good way to get your foot in the door.
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T.J. McDonald
Instructor
New Horizons
A+, I-net+ | |
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| The thing I want to know is if you are already a CNE or MCSE why spend th etime and money on taking the Network+ test. If you are a CNE, wouldn't it be more worth while to pursue the Master CNE? If you earn a CCNA, wouldn't it be more valuable to go the full Cisco path to the highly respected CCIE? | |
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| How about E-commerce or E-business?
What certfications should I get if my job will cover e-commerce? | |
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| I agree Bobby with your second post to this thread, but I offer for your consideration that maybe some of the certifications were acquired prior to attaining MCSE or CNE status. I acquired my A+ and NEt+ certifications prior to becomming MCP. But it does make more sense to get the entry level certs before putting all the effort into MCSE or CNE and especially CCIE. Its sort of like backing up. My two cents worth....... | |
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| I agree with your point Fubar, but there are some are already MCSEs or CNEs. That's why I cannot see taking a "step back" to take the Network+ test. If you work your way up from A+, to Network+, to i-Net, to an MCSE, CNE, or Cisco I can see the value in that path.
From what I have seen, many people get a multitude of certifications believing and hoping that high salary will come with it.
A lot of people who are trying to get in the IT field have unrealistic expectations of high salaries with certain certifications and little or no experience. They believe this because of the shortage that the media is always reporting. How many recruiters would actually hire someone with an MCSE and NO experience let alone hire them with a salary of $40,0000 to $50,0000 a year?
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| ***Please excuse the errors in my last posting. I'm on my lunch break**** | |
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| As far as getting the N+ goes if you're already an MCSE, it's something that will only help you and not hurt you. If you already know the material why not pass the test. Especially if the company is paying for it.
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T.J. McDonald
Instructor
New Horizons
A+, I-net+ | |
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| Bobo, I would look at the i-Net certification first if your area is e-commerce. I'm not that familiar with it,but from what I've heard it is geared towards people who work directly with the Internet and e-commerce. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Another possiblity after that is the CIW (Certified Internet Webmaster). It all depends on what direct you wish to go. | |
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| TJ, It's still a step backward. If you have an MCSE, you should already know the material for the Network+. Use the company money for another certification that will enhance your knowledge and increase your marketability and value within a company. If you are an MCSE, go for the CCNA. Move up. | |
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| If you have choosen to take a career change and are looking to break into the industry then I would hope that taking your MCSE would be a good first step, I have taken a year out of work to try to understand and pass the exams, I'm sure that half of it isn't what is used in the real world, but you've got to start somewhere eh? 5 down one to go...........
quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Digital:
This has been gnawing at me for a while and I really want to know. I want to know how many certifications is enough. I see people taking certification test left and right. The thing that gets me is that they are taking test that just to take test. For example, if a person is Microsoft or Novell certified, why take the Network+ test? If you are a trainer/instructor I can see it, but other than that it is overkill.
To me, the whole certification idea is losing it's luster. Why? All you have to do is buy a book, study...oops...MEMORIZE a few braindumps and BAM, you have a certification. The orginal purpose of certifications were to ENHANCE a person's experience with a product. It looks better to a recruiter to have a MCSE and have actual work experience with Microsoft products than to have a MCSE and no experience administrating a network.
It is a trip to see someone with a MCSE boast on how much they know about NT or 2000, but have not clue on actual hardware support or technologies scuh as UNIX. I know a guy who swears he was a NT guru. He had his MCSE and you couldn't tell him anything. That is until he had to deal with UNIX, shell scripting, and Perl. He didn't realize that it takes more than one product to run a network.
I know I jumped off the subject a little and I know that I will "offend" a few people, but I really want to know the truth about certification overkill. Does having five or six certifications really help your career? Is multiple certification better than an Associate or bachelor degree? WHASSUP??????????
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| MCSE seems to be everyone's first thought, but I'd suggest that someone considering a career change look closely at what kind of work she wants to be doing and interview a few potential employers. An MCSE probably won't impress an employer running a predominantly *nix shop.
quote:
Originally posted by Retty:
If you have choosen to take a career change and are looking to break into the industry then I would hope that taking your MCSE would be a good first step, I have taken a year out of work to try to understand and pass the exams, I'm sure that half of it isn't what is used in the real world, but you've got to start somewhere eh? 5 down one to go...........
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| I hear ya loud and clear Aurora. What worth would an MCSE be in a Novell environment? That's where the Master CNE comes into play. Like I said ENHANCE your experience. | |
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Interesting! I never believed overkill on Cert, if you know what u doing. Take those exam that help u for better job, better chance for promotion and earn more money. Many people are doing it just for the impression of certification. "YOU got one, I got one, too."
Many people considered for career change and they pick I.T, but I.T field is not for everybody. Even u got a 100 cert's, but still don't proof u "S***" until u can apply it. If u are dedicated to the field, take it all but make sure u consider the following:
1) Need it
2) Time
3) Who is paying?
Just "THINK DEEP" and "Talk to Peopl" before u start, then u will not overkill!
As the other user said here, if you are instructor/Trainer then u need all the cert
you can get. Otherwise, why back step.
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| MAYBE BECAUSE YOU LOVE COMPUTING???
I am a student, but I still find time to get certified because I love computing and Information Technology.
Some people don't think getting certified is a waste of time. I think it is fun and a great learning experience.
That is not a very good attitude to have for this industry. : )
Well that is just my two cents anyway!
Late,
Joseph Vander Zanden
MCP | |
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| I think if you are pursuing certifications, you must first choose a career path. Are you going to be a programmer, a database administrator or a network engineer? Once you have chosen your path, I don't think you can have too many certifications in your field. I do think, however, that it is a little ridiculous to take steps backwards just to get the initials. I think you should always move forward. After all, learning more about what you do is what it's about...right? Moving on to new, better and bigger challenges...right? Just my thoughts.
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LANlord :-)
MCNE,MCSE,CCNA | |
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| I agree with you LANlord. All I am saying is be reasonable in pursuing certifications. If you have your MCSE, don't go back to get Network+ just to put it on your resume. To be honest, if I were a recruiter, I would be leary if an applicant had three to five certifications on their resume, but only and year or two or no experience. | |
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| I have to weigh in in favor of as many certifications as possible in as many areas as possible. I know that goes against the thread I'm reading here but it is true.
I've been involved in this industry since '89 as a hobbiest and since '95 as a professional. I can't tell you how many times I have been studying for some new cert that was unrelated to my present job and then 6 months down the road I am the hero of the company because the need arises I'm the only one knowlegable in that area of technology.
In this industry knowledge never hurts and constant learning keeps you sharp.
As far as why would an MCSE get an N+? I'll tell you.... if your MCSE is a couple of years old then this is a great review of general networking technology. The exams often cover broader areas than we perform on our jobs and they serve to resharpen knowledge that my be growing dull.
Just my two cents. | |
| elwatson 2000-08-07, 2:24 pm |
| This is an extremely lively topic to say the least...I recently read about a guy who now owns his own company and holds 22 certs...he started out as a helper in a PC repair shop, and picked up a Novell course his employer had ordered. He went from there. However, his goal was to acquire knowledge, and he did it with a vengence and a PLAN. He knew that in order to be an "Integrator Consultant", one has to know as much about the field as possible. So he now owns his own company, writes articles, and is doing very well, and still pursuing more certs. One's purpose in life should be about acquiring knowledge, and certification is one way to prove that.
But not to be able to say, "Hey, look at me, I have a million certs under the belt." No sir! The IT field doubles its knowledge base every day. If you are going to stay competitive and keep up with the "SHARKS" as in all professions, then you have to do what is necessary.
Of utmost importance is to 1)Set the Goal 2)Make the Plan 3)Follow the plan to the letter 4)Get as much and as varied experience as possible, and last but not least 5)Study your a** off, and get the certs to prove your knowledge.
I agree that Certification has become a bottomless moneymaking pit for the ones who teach the courses and give the tests, as well as the manufacturers who produce the products; but as the old saying goes, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"
One last thought, a paper MCSE should be given credit. After all, this is no easy task even if you are using braindumps (THEY NEED TO BE BANNED as BILLY BOY IS NOW DOING). If you want something bad enough, and you have to study hard for it, why not give that person a shot and see if they can put book knowledge to the test. Don't employers give you the traditional 90 day period to prove your mettle. With IT in such high demand, why not? Everywhere I look, there are a GADZILLION schools offering courses. A cottage industry has grown up around this field. Should not these people who forked over time, money, blood, sweat, and tears be given a chance? One has to start somewhere. Employers are looking for Renaissance people who no longer exist in an age of specialization. What is the real deal here?
One day, I hope to be able to do this:
E. Lindwall Watson, A+,S+,N+,I+,LINUX+,RHCI,CNA,CN
E,MCNE,MCSE,CCNA,CCNP,CCIE,CIT
RIX,BA,MA,PhD,MIS,MBA,JD (Am I missing any letters? In all reality, here is where I am and plan to go.
E.L. WATSON, BA(Political Science)MA(International Relations)
A+,N+,I+,CNE,RHCI,MCSE,CCNA,CC
NP,CCIE,CITRIX all tied into UNIX (Are these realistic enough for a wannabe Internetworking Integrator). I could comfortably do this over a period of five to seven years if I can get the all around experience from working with an Integrator on a per project basis (wide exposure), PRO BONO work especially for the non-profits (there are plennnnty of opportunities there). I hear tell that it also helps to know a little programming such as C,Perl,Java-just enough to tide you over when the Programmers aren't available due to the heavy backlog of projects in the real world. In other words, an IT administrator or engineer has to be able to wear many hats. So forget about family and hobbies. I thought that Astronomy, Cosmology, and theoretical Physics were demanding fields of study~!! | |
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| I enjoy programming as a hobby. Since I have finished My MCSE I decided to get certified in VB. I don't care if it's part of my job or not. If I am knowledgable of such things a I feel I might as well have a way to prove that I do infact have programming knowledge or skills
A+,MCP+I,MCSE www.geocities.com/husko_stuff
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| I see that this thread has hit a nerve or two. Believe it or not there is a such thing as certification overkill especially if you are new to the IT field. If you have several years of experience and several certifications that looks better than having a year or less of exprience and several certifications. | |
| Flavio E. Goncalves 2000-08-08, 6:31 pm |
| The root of the question is the actual value of certification. Wy companies are looking for certification ?
The response in my opinion is risk reduction.
Hiring a certified professional is less risky than a non-certified. It costs too much in terms of time and money to hire a non qualified person.
What is happening today is that MCSE became a poor certification. Braindumps, bootcamps, tests based on multiple choice questions, are destroying the reputation of MCSE certification.
If things got worse, companies will realize that certification are not reducing the risks in hiring people. After that this companies will find that the right combination of certification with job experience will make the better choice.
Computer Technology Market is a moving target, If I could I would stay with just my CNE, but isn't possible !
Eng. Flávio Eduardo de A. Gonçalves
MCNE/MCSE/CCNA/CCDA/MCNI/MCT/CTT and now looking for CCIE/CCNP and CCDP. I don't think I will ever stop. | |
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| I was discussing ceritification overkill with a fellow technician and he brought up a very valid point. He stated that most of the people with multiple certifications are looking for the "perfect" tech job. He also stated that a lot of people also spend more time trying to learn everything out there instead of what is right in front of them. Basically, these people are always looking for another job.
On the other hand, people who are happy with their current IT job, mainly pursue certifications that will help them advance within that organization. They also tend to pursue bachelor and/or masters degrees in the area of techncial management.
These people are enhancing their current skills. They are becoming experts in the product(s) utilized by their current company. Does that limit their marketability? No. It can make them just as marketable if not more than multiple certifications. That prospective employer can comfortably know that this person knows the product(s) inside and out.
One might think that is creating a limit on oneself, but it is not. Most organizations run more than one product. It's a mixure. The person should receive enough exposure with a variety of applications that he/she would still be a high prospect. | |
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| I'm currently working on getting my certifacations. Would this be overkill?
A+, N+, MCSE (NT [because not everyone upgrades]and 2000), CNE, CCNA. In that order. I have informal experience since I was about 9. I am only 17 so I'm trying to start early and get everything so I can start off life good.
[This message has been edited by RoPiE (edited 08-18-2000).] | |
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| Depends on the direction you want to go. Also don't get too tied up with trying to gain certifications. Get some hands-on experience and think about college. Try to earn at least at Associates if you are not interested in a four-year degree at this time. | |
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| Bobo
Take the inet+, then the CIW site designer and ecommerce. If you have inet+, you are exempt from the foundations exam for CIW. Then take the Site designer ande-commerce and you will have Master CIE Designer. Then look at the Novell Web master series.
Mark
A+, inet+, Network+, CIW P, M CIW D, Novell CIBS | |
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| I have a question for you. Why is it that so many peoply with thier MCSE choose to put it as well as, the MCP after thire name. If you have your MCSE than you sure as hell have your MCP, at least 5 times over..excluding NEt Ess. of course.
quote:
Originally posted by darthw:
I think prospective employers like to see more certs on a resume. The more the better. But, the value placed on some certifications does seem too high in many cases. The value has to measured by an employer, or co-worker, in light of many things.
Is the interviewee familiar with our product?Most certification programs only introduce a tech to the operation of the product and familiarize the tech with the terms he/she will see in the field. I've usually found the "real world" scenario questions to be of narrow scope, but they at least serve to introduce some possible fixes. They are not a substitute for experience, and I can't see how they ever would be, unless a certain length of field experience is measured and required to earn the certification, but they can indicate what an individual's learning curve may be.
Does the tech have an ability to learn? Will they learn if presented with the opportunity? If a tech has more certs, or a college degree for that matter, on their resume, it doesn't mean he, or she, will be the better tech, rather it shows the person has motivation, ambition, and a willingness to learn. These are personal qualities that are difficult to measure in a 30 minute interview if a tech has only work experience or no education listed on his/her resume.
How well do they work with others? Personality should be a big factor as well. Most of my computer work has required a huge amount of customer interaction. You have to talk to a customer to learn about their problem and needs, and you should be, even at those all to often difficult moments, sensitive to a customer's needs and feelings. I've seen a couple techs who were much better technically than me get escorted to the office door because they have the personality of a horse's butt. The boss at my first computer job hired me because, "It is apparent that you can handle the customers, and we can teach you the rest."
Certainly, I believe there can be cert overkill. Many of the certs. are redundant, so some level of focus should be aimed for. As for me, if I interviewed someone who was certified out the wazoo, I would wander if other things in there personal life are suffering, which hints at some personality problems, in my book. There is much more to life than endless test-taking and working.
However, sometimes taking a redundant test seems reasonable. For example Net+ and Networking Essentials, one is a vendor neutral, non-retiring exam (right now anyway), and the other is Microsoft's and retires. If I'm job hunting between the NT 4 exams retiring and I just haven't had the time for the 2000
tests, then the Net+ will be a handy carry over. Also, much of the material is redundant, so taking both means less study time, and some good review.
Getting certified has ENHANCED my career, as has going to college, experience at work, and dealing with customers. All these things make me a more valuable employee, not the certifications alone. I, and many others, have moved up because the skills we possess make us valuable employees. And certs are one tool that is used to measure employees.
It sounds as if you've had bad experiences with a boastful MCSE who needs some deserved humbling. I find that I better not boast too loudly about what I know, in case I have to ask the guy next to me to help me with something that he DOES know, and I DON'T. But I've had those same bad experiences with workers who "have years of experience", and no certs.
By the way, I have a B.A. and a couple Associate degrees in Computer Science, but I believe I've learned more about computers self-studying for certification exams, but even more through experience. If it's as easy as a little memorization and "BAM" to get a cert, I've been going at it all wrong.
My opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
DarthW MCSE, MCP, A+, Net+, i-Net+, CDIA (These aren't listed to boast, only to show that I have some experience with certifying)
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| Maybe it's cause ther're tossers? | |
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| Ken, that was a good question. Why is that? | |
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I think it must be because they are certification junkies and want to have as many letters as they can add (or make up) after their name. | |
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| Cerfications are good when they enhance what you already know, but to get certifications just to say you have it is overkill.
Too many people are using certifications as a salary guage on their worth. Certification(s) is not the quick and easy way into the IT field. Get the experience, pursue the certification(s), and negotiate with employers. | |
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| Just a couple of points:
1. Certification overkill is very real. After a certain point, it only appears, that you know how to write tests. You don't want to give that impression - you want to give the impression that you know something.
2. I think after a certain point, maybe 2 or 3 certifications, a person should find a job, and go to University or college part time, to become a programmer or developer. Thats where the real money is.
3. As for the good paying jobs, I'm going to be completely honest with you. I know quite a few people who have taken the MCSE training and not one is making less than $50,000/year. It may because of where I live (near Ottawa - quickly being dubbed Silicon Valley North). But if thats the case guys, then come to Canada. There are IT jobs - seriously. I already have 3 companies that are watching me until I complete my exams. Its crazy.
4. Oh, and also - I can't because of obligations here. But word has it that Ireland is recruity IT personnel like crazy. They have a base set up in Nova Scotia to recruit people to move to the Emerald Isle. Anybody who wants to move to Europe should check it out. | |
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| You brought up a good point Pasileyskye in that the real money is in programming and development. A lot of people don't realize that salaries for networking are lower than programmers, web development, and database administration.
You cannot just limit yourself to network and system support. That's why I feel that more people are losing out by focusing on just networking skills. You need to have some other skills as well. I know people who are network administrators who also handle database. I know network administrators who also handle the development and maintinence of their organization's website.
In short, you have to be a jack-of-all-trades. | |
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| Bobby Digital:
Thats exactly why as soon as I finish school, and get working, I'm going to take night courses in programming. It will make me worth more in the eyes of the employer, and in the event that he's not willing to up the antee, it also makes me more marketable to other companies.
I failed to mention in my previous post, that the reason the students in my school get watched could be because we get hands on experience in school. When I was studying A+, the local Universities would donate computers for us to fix and then donate to local school and youth centres. In Networking Essentials I had the opportunity to tear down the entire network of the school and build it back up (thats one of the benefits of going to a fairly small school), and for Workstation, I've had the opportunity to perform unattended installs.
I didn't know until recently (today) that not all schools are like this.
Also, there will come a day, when Certifications won't matter as much to us. When college degrees, and life experience will mean more to the employers. We have to remember that our education and training will never end - we have to always be learning new things in order to stay current with Industry trends.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS WORD97 and EXCEL97, A+ Certified, 93.3% on Networking Essentials) | |
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| 1. Certs could mean different things to different employers.
2. In general if you have the know-how to back up the certs you will go further and probably make more money than somebody with just experience alone.
3. If you have certs and no experience be prepared to eat humble pie. You've got to pay your dues.
4. Certs should of course be relevant to your area of specialty unless of coures you teach, or are doing it just to add to the number of letters after your name (and money to blow!)
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Spydah MD,FCAP,A+
"Who dares, wins!"-SAS | |
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| 1. Certs could mean different things to different employers.
2. In general if you have the know-how to back up the certs you will go further and probably make more money than somebody with just experience alone.
3. If you have certs and no experience be prepared to eat humble pie. You've got to pay your dues.
4. Certs should of course be relevant to your area of specialty unless of coures you teach, or are doing it just to add to the number of letters after your name (and money to blow!)
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Spydah MD,FCAP,A+
"Who dares, wins!"-SAS | |
| Piccello 2000-09-27, 4:25 pm |
| Certification overkill exists but it is like saying someone is greedy because they are already rich but continue to invest their money for more money. If the opportunity is there, meaning you have the money, the ability or whatever, to gain a certification, you should take it no matter what.
Most of us cannot control how much experience we get. That depends on others giving us a shot. But we CAN control putting in the effort to learn and certify a new or different technology.
As far as MCSE goes, there are so many out there now that it does seem to to dilute the certs strength but a lot of that is regional also. I started out certifying for an MCSE and changed to MCDBA due to some work I did with SQL and the overwhelming lack of ceritfied American born DBAs out there (Most of the DBAs my recruiter places have to be sponsored). Plus, it is just too hard a skill to certify and perform so most people just look over it and go MCSE similar to the way people look over the CS degree versus the Business degree.
I know the development side of the house is the place I want to be. I have a networking job without the certs so I will focus on breaching that paradigm and make a life as a DBA. Why? Because nobody wants to do that!
Peace.
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| That's the way to go Picello!
Your thread brings up another issue. If you look at most of the job opening out there (depending on your area), most are NOT networking jobs so-to-speak. A large majority of the opening are for database(SQL, Oracle), programming (C++, Java, HTML, XML, etc.)and UNIX (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, shell scripting, Perl). Nobody is really pursuing those areas. Wide open. You are also correct in that they are being filled by sponsored/HB-1 visa workers. No one is pursuing them because they are "harder".
People need to look beyond the MCSE and CCNA when trying to enter the IT field. | |
| Piccello 2000-09-28, 5:44 pm |
| Bobby Digital,
You noticed that too? It is amazing the number of job openings available on the development side. And the compensation (CHOICE OF LOCATION, SALARY, STOCKS, SCHEDULE, RETIREMENT) you can demand by having skills in that area.
Lookit. I was in this business for 4 years, helpdesk, Tech support, system admin to project leader all for NT, 95/98, Networking roles. A friend of mine was doing graphics work on a Macintosh and asked me how to get into this field. He saw how much money IT paid and such. I told him that if I were just starting out, with the info I know now, I would go programming. He bought some software named CodeWarrior and learned to do basic programming. He took a programming class at college and got an intern position writing Java with a company. For the next three months he pushed to get his cert in Java and once he got it, the manager hired him on fulltime at almost more than I was making after nearly 5 years of solid experience. That was about a year ago. He makes more than I do now.
How many of you have gone to troubleshoot an issue with a client and found the keyboard was loose or they lost connection to their inbox and just needed to reboot to fix it? After talking with them you find that they are Java Developers and during you work on their PCs you see the Yahoo listing for all the stocks they own - Thousands of dollars worth - whcich they sit and watch all day between programming? These folks are not geniuses! They just made a great choice in their career: development.
As the number of MCSEs focusing on Networking and operating systems continue to explode, the money will go down. Supply and demand. Now and in the future, the scenario will be MCSE needed WITH VB or Java, or C++ etc... or you can just get a programming cert go straight to the top.
My track will be MCDBA (I will have an MCSE by default due to my current MCPs), VB certification and JAVA or C++ certification. This will enable me to pursue my true dream of Project Management in the SQL arena.
I am not knocking anyone elses choice. I am simply saying read the job sites and see what they want and what they are paying. Know the simple reality of supply and demand and stop taking the easy way out because for every MCDBA or other development certed engineer, there are a thousand MCSEs. And those skills that Bobby listed are the hardest to attain, yet the most rewarding overall. | |
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| You guys are right about the pay. I work on a project that is divided between net engineers and developers. My company charges the same money per day for both ($1750). But the developers make 20k a year more than we do.
But it's not just that developer work is harder. I have some coding skills and even worked as a developer for a few months. I had to change jobs though because after 3 months I was going crazy sitting in front of the same computer every day. It also depends on what you enjoy doing. I find net engineering much more varied and interesting. |
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