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Home > Archive > General Discussion > October 2000 > Have you seen this? another BetaMax vs VCR War?
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Have you seen this? another BetaMax vs VCR War?
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| Hey,
Has anyone seen this article or have heard any dialogue? I got it out of CertMag this month....
Don't Throw Out That NT 4.0 Study Material Just Yet
When Microsoft announced earlier this year that it would discontinue
the NT 4 certification exams on Dec. 31, 2000, it left a lot of test-
prep companies and MCSE candidates in the lurch. Many NT 4 MCSE
candidates were upset at what they perceived as Microsoft's heavy-
handed attempt to force people to adopt the Windows 2000 platform and
many test-prep and training companies suffered from a precipitous drop
in sales.
A possible solution emerged a few weeks ago when Lanop Corp, a computer
systems training firm based in New York, announced that it plans to
create and issue its own independent NT certification.
Lanop says it is simply filling a void for companies that have no plans
to migrate to Windows 2000 any time soon. Lanop believe that NT 4 will
remain a viable and valuable certification for companies in need of
people certified for the NT platform and for MCSE candidates who feel
that it is too early to pursue a Windows 2000 MCSE.
According to Lanop, their NT 4 exam will cover basic topics such as: NT
Workstation, NT Server and NT Enterprise. Prometric and VUE have agreed
to administer the exams, which will cost $100 apiece.
Microsoft has received a good deal of criticism for its plan to force
all current MCSEs to update to the Windows 2000 MCSE or lose their
credential. Many current Microsoft Certified Professionals feel the
company is strong-arming them and others are simply exasperated. For
its part, Microsoft defends its decision to retire the NT 4
certification. In a statement release by the software giant, Microsoft
says the company is "helping companies identify skilled individuals who
can facilitate the transition to state-of-the-art technology."
Microsoft says that it doesn't know enough about Lanop or its testing
to comment on the value of the certification. Lanop says the new
certification will be available Jan. 1, 2001. You can find out more
about Lanop's NT certification on the company's Web site at http://www.lanop.com.
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| Yeah. I got the same e-mail last night about this. My opinion on this is that Lanop Corp. is try to cash in on disgrutled IT professional and prospects. All this is going to do is add another set of letters (NTCIP I believe) to people's resumes.
I still say that pursuing the 2000 will not hurt an individual like so many people believe. Like I have stated before, if you have Windows 2000 skills, picking up NT should be a snap and visa versa.
In my case, the organization I work for has already said that we will be migrating from NT to 2000. Don't know exactly when though. We are in the test process. It could be 3 months from now or it could be a year from now. The bottom line is that Windows 2000 is coming and they need people who are ready for it.
That is my situation. Others may be different, but there are companies that will be eventually moving to 2000 in the future.
Microsoft is trying to bring back some kind of value to their certification program. That might mean getting recertified every two or three years. So what. You are keeping your skills up to date and current by doing so. I personally don't believe that they will get rid of Windows 2000 as quickly as NT. I think that they were just trying to start off with a clean slate. Seperate the men from the boys so-to-speak (or women from the girls as the case may be).
Yes, it would have been nice if Microsoft took a page out of Novell's book and keep the NT certification (Novell still offers certification on older products if I am correct). The only thing we can do is wait and see what happens. | |
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| Hi:
It is my personal opinion that the Lanop exams are the solution to the NT4 crisis. Lanop is offering a grandfather clause to all MCSE's and people who complete their 4 core courses before the retirement date. All you have to do is send them your transcript and $30.00 and they will send you your NT-Certified Independant Professional certificate along with a photo ID.
From everything I have seen and heard the Industry is embracing Lanop for this. Training centers are thrilled because they don't have to spend small fortunes to upgrade learning materials. Companies are thrilled because alot had no intention of making the upgrade in the first place. Students are thrilled because they now have a choice.
Personally, I have no intention of upgrading to Windows 2000 once I complete my NT4 MCSE. I will be getting my NT-CIP, taking the Comptia set of exams and getting my MCP+SB.
Why??
Because I strongly feel that Windows 2000 is a "flash in the pan" With few companies planning to upgrade to it within the next 2 years, Whister will be out before most companies make a transition. What will most companies upgrade to - most likely Whistler at that time.
I'm not saying I can predict the future - if I could I'd be out picking lottery numbers right now instead of typing on my computer.
I'm just saying that Lanop is a viable alternative, and in my situation right now - more viable than Windows 2000.
Why should we continue to follow Bill Gates blindly - when even he doesn't know where he's going.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS WORD97 and EXCEL97, A+ Certified, MCP) | |
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| I LOVE you Paisleyskye, but I disagree with you on this topic. Nobody knows what Microsoft has planned (not even Microsoft). I can bet that the same people complaining about NT retiring will do the same if they retire 2000 when Whistler comes out.
Personally, I think that a lot of people are paranoid and overreacting as well as pissed with Microsoft because of this change. Look at it as Microsoft getting their house in order. If my certification program was becoming a joke and easily passed by high school kids and people who use braindumps, I would make a change as well.
If you look at it closely, NT has been around for a while. The phased out the NT 3 certification after so many years. Not a peep. Why? Because people moved to NT 4 or were planning to. Windows 2000 will be around for a while. Whistler will arrive and 2000 will still be around.
I believe that the retiring of the NT was a wake up call for people. They had to make a change to stay competitive with other certifications (can we say CISCO?). Do I agree with them abruptly retiring the NT track? No. They should have kept it around for a year or two longer. Follow Novell's foot steps by keeping old track around.
The NTCIP is just another quick fad to add to the overcrowded certification market. | |
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| Bobby Digital:
You know I love ya, but with all due respect - I have to disagree with you here.
Lanop will not be a flash in the pan. They have the support of too many big names in the Industry.
I think that the acceptance of Whistler will far surpass the acceptance of Windows 2000 in the Industry.
I also think that in time, the Lanop certifications will be as widely respected as the Comptia Certifications.
Bill Gates just has to fall off his high horse, and realize he isn't god anymore - John Goodfriend is (Founder of Lanop)
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS WORD97 and EXCEL97, A+ Certified, MCP) | |
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| If Microsoft says the NT4 MCSE is becoming redundant and obsolete, then it is. No other organization can validate someone elses product if the developer tells us all its becoming obsolete and dosn't contain the functionality and flexability required for todays information systems. Lanop's cert won't be worth the paper it's on, netherlone the $100 test fee.
Let's face it, NT4 is going the same way as Win3X. | |
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| True. True @ simonbart.
Just imagine if you didn't have to pass the Bar to practice law. You could practice law just by passing a exam given by a private company. The same goes for doctors and teachers.
Now imagine if you will a private company says that you can earn Cisco certification equivalent to the CCIE just by taking their exam. Do you see where I am going??? | |
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| Sorry guys:
I still have to disagree with you. Microsoft says NT4 is obsolete, but Microsoft doesn't have a clue about the needs and wants of the industry. You can laugh at that statement if you want to - but think about it - companies don't even want to upgrade to their new industry standard. Companies were just becoming comfortable with NT4, and NT4 was what the industry wanted.
Microsoft decided to throw a monkey wrench at everyone. One very smart company decided to independantly certify people in NT4. The Microsoft Lovers of America are going into a frenzy.
The facts are that Sylvan Prometric and VUE must believe the exams are going to be popular, or they wouldn't have agreed to distribute them.
I think everybody is going to be surprised by the value the Lanop cert does hold after Microsoft axes the NT4 MCSE certs. All it takes is a little opportunity like this for a relatively small company to get a big name in the Industry.
As for Windows 3x. Windows for Workgroups is still widely in use. Mainly by factories, but still widely in use. I know alot of places who are still using it - why? Because if it does what you want and need it to do, why spend money to upgrade.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS WORD97 and EXCEL97, A+ Certified, MCP) | |
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| Its true, some companies still use Win for Workgroups....and the Armish still use horses and carts | |
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| Ouch! Heh, heh, heh.
You are my girl @Paisleyskye, but even you have to admit that he got you there.
Anyway, let's all play nice now:-) | |
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| Well Bobby Digital:
Looks like I got your attention!
Anyway, I still stand by the Lanop certs, but it is going to have to be one of those things where we have to wait to see what is going to happen. Things are going to get interesting.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS WORD97 and EXCEL97, A+ Certified, MCP) | |
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| Oh, and by the way - yes the amish do still use horses and carriages. Do you know why? Because that works for them!! It makes them happy, and if it works, why change! Thats why many manufacturing companies still use Windows for Workgroups - it works. The same reason many companies use, and will continue to use NT4 - it works.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS WORD97 and EXCEL97, A+ Certified, MCP) | |
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| People will still use nt4 because it does meet their needs. The fact is it will probably always have a nich (look at Novell 3.12). All in all I'd have to say that Lanop is filling a ligit hole that MS has left in the industry. I wish I had thought of the idea first.
But at the same time MS is right when they say nt4 is an obsolete OS. In fact it was obsolete the day thay released it, it never had the strength of Novell's NDS or the stability of Unix. That is another reason thay want everyone to forget the past. 2000 may be they first OS that MS has released that is more than just marketing hype (but the jury is still out). | |
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| Thank you Castlecoth for agreeing with me about NT4 and the Lanop cert.
The thing that everyone needs to understand including Microsoft is: as far as the popularity and validity of an operating system or a certification goes - the people on these boards don't matter, the students don't matter, the teachers don't matter, Microsoft does not matter - The opinion that really matters is that of the corporations and the employers.
A lot of people are going to be very upset with me for that statement - but think about it. The only opinion that really does matter is the opinion of the people who buy the operating system, and the people who hire certified employees. Everyone else's opinion doesn't matter.
Microsoft, being company that it is has made a huge marketing mistake, and they are just paying for it now.
They foolishly delayed the release of NT5, which was to have been released somewhere around 1995 or 1996. After several delays, they canned it, and came out with Windows 2000.
When they did this however, due to their previous delays, they had allowed NT4 to remain in the Industry for 6 years. During that 6 years, it became so widespread, and enamoured, that the industry wanted to hold onto its familiarity.
My question is: if Microsoft had not of delayed, and had of released NT5 when it was originally planned - would all of this controversy have erupted?? If we hadn't become so accustomed to NT4, would Windows 2000 be just another upgrade, and not the dilemna that it has become??
As for my honest opinions of Windows 2000:
I believe 2000 Professional is a very cheesy operating system with names like "my network places" and "computers near me". I would be embarrased to have someone stand over my shoulder and think I liked that cheesy crap. However, the operating system itself is very stable. I don't believe it will ever be as good as NT4, but it isn't that bad - once you rename a few items.
I believe 2000 Server isn't worth the CD its printed on.
But thats only my opinion. And my opinion doesn't matter. Only the opinion of the corporations and the employers does.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS,A+,MCPx2) | |
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| Much love to you Paisleyskye, but what certification are you pursuing? If Microsoft is that bad why go after the MCSE? I use both NT and 2000 and I can say after months of use that 2000 is much better than NT. The stablity and ease of use is just remarkable.
If you hate Microsoft that much you do have the choice of UNIX.
:-) | |
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| Hi:
I have a few things to say, please hear me out, and as this is a very difficult post for me to make, please do not slam me too hard for making it.
After talking to a good friend last night I had some time to evaluate my posts and my stands against Microsoft.
It has come to my attention that I have been very hypocritical by taking a strong stand against Microsoft, and persuing a Microsoft Certification at the same time. For anyone who wants to know, I am also running Windows 98 and using Internet Explorer.
The last thing on earth, that I want to be is a hypocrite, so I am going to steer clear of the Microsoft subject for a while.
I think its time I put my energy back into posts taking stands against braindumps, among other things.
But I know its time I left the company alone.
Take care,
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS,A+,MCPx2) | |
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| Paisleyskye,
Bashing MS while persuing an MS cert does not make you a hypocrite. As IT professionals we all need to have some MS skills (whether we like it or not). At the same time, being thinking people, we realize that MS is the biggest not because they have the best product, but because they have a half-decent product and the best marketing department on planet earth.
At the same time your right in that we shouldn't bite too hard the hand that feeds us :-) | |
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| Pailsley - Don't back off now. This is just getting interesting. You are not being a hipocrit, you are simply becoming experienced enough to realize that what you like and what you have to do in the computer field are often two different things.
The MCSE certification is the most recognized certification for any Micro user. Microsoft is the dominent player in the market and you have to be knowledgable in Microsoft. This does not mean that you have to like or respect Microsoft, it simply means that you recognize the realities of the market and you need to learn it.
As in any business the buyer is king. Many companies have learned the hard way that you can not force your clients to change, you have to convince them to change by showiung them the advantages of the change. Microsoft has failed with this version og NT.
I have worked with "Every Version of Microsoft's Operating Systems" and I mean every version. Some have been excellent but on the whole most release of their OS's have been pure and utter crap.
I do not care about bells and whisltes, cutesy interfaces, and unnecessary features. I care about speed, security, interconnectivity, and stability. NT4, with the appropriate third party packages provides me, and most users, with the features I need at this time. 2000 provides me with a whole new set of problems, no advantages, and very high costs.
The curent installed base of NT4 can not be ignored. The industry just finished paying for the Y2K fiasco where Microsoft made them upgrade. When many of these companies examined the situation after the fact they realized that many of the upgrades they were forced to make were in fact unnecessary. These compnaies are not in the mood to do another wholsale upgrade soon
The extended length of time that NT4 was on the market has created an installed base that microsoft has not had to deal with before. Due to the time we have had with OS we have been able to fine tune our networks to the point where they require little support and they are actually quite stable. The applications software works well on this OS, we can find trainined staff, and our hardware can support the OS.
Members of this forum would be advised to stand back and look more closely at some of the client (employer) issues. When you are marketing yourself to a potential employer you might consider that they often look for a person who looks at a situation with a broad view. They would rather hire someone who is not prepared to accept the industry (MS) line but will examine each situation and select the best solution regardless of vendor.
Just a few additional points:
1. There are more PC's running MS DOS than any other OS. Don't forget them.
2. The OS you are running is not the important factor. It is the applications software that is critical. If the OS can not runnyour applications, then you will not use the OS.
3. Most businesses do not ugrade hardware untill the hardware fails. They can not afford to.
4. Remember. If the application worked fine five years ago on your 486, it will work exactly the same today.
5. Both hardware and software vendors are in the business of convincing you that you need thair latest toys. Any business that does an upgrade without a serious cost benefit analysis is likely on its way out of business. A serious cost benefit will examine all cost and performance issues and base their decissions on this.
6. Would you buy a used care from Microsoft? Would you buy a new car from Microsoft?
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| Don't quit now Paisleyskye. You really know what you are talking about, and as someone in the Industry, I have enjoyed watching your posts for quite some time now.
Kid, your one of the ones who are going to make it in this Industry. Do you know why??
Because you are intelligent enough to speak out, you only list facts, and there is no way with all of that knowledge of the Industry that you could be a rookie.
No my dear, you are going to take the Industry by storm. You already speak the voice of many of my peers in the Industry now.
As a person who is in a postion to hire, and a position to suggest upgrades, I have to agree with everything you have said about the needs and wants of the Industry.
So, I implore you Paisleyskye, don't sit on the sidelines and let some rookies get you down. Continue to stand up for what you believe in, you have a voice child, please continue to use it. |
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