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About the software pirating article
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| First off, I will admit that I have several pieces of software on my home computer which could be considered pirated. I won't attempt to justify the fact; however, I would like to inform everyone that I've long since quit pirating software (when I first got a job of my own).
I just recently turned 18, and the responsibilities of trying to start a business of my own have all but completely removed my wishes to pirate software. I've even gotten into the habit of actually reading EULA's (Heaven forbid!)
Now my issue with the article on pirating isn't at all for pirating itself. My issue with the article is about the exageration on the subject; moreover, the given that the companies that produce software actually lose money. Now, it may be true that the company loses profit; but more often than not, it is only profit that the company loses. What I'm trying to say is: the article associates software piracy with actual theft. This is untrue, software piracy (the way I see it) is an unauthorized distrubution of copies of the software. Product vendors pay the company up front, so sales may be cut back; but profit is all that's lost.
Another interesting concept to note is that my software pirating days were limited to when I could not possibly afford to pay for expensive software. I didn't have a source of income, just getting a computer put together for myself was hard enough. Let's say for example I wanted to purchase items such as 3D Studio Max or Adobe Photoshop, both of which are quite pricey, without an income. The company wouldn't have benifited any from me not having the software (assuming I didn't distribute it). Another thing to note: if I hadn't pirated those software titles, I wouldn't have been able to purchase them anyway, so the company wouldn't lose anything other than profit.
A few of you will probably assume things about my character for taking a defensive stance on the subject. But I just wanted to have a voice for this topic. I hope everyone can respect my opinion for what it is: merely an opinion.
-edited to rectify rigourous censoring for specific keywords which by themselves are not offensive.
[This message has been edited by Clovis (edited 10-18-2000).] | |
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| How many people here can honestly say they have paid for WinZip?
Just throwing a spanner in the works! | |
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| Clovis,
I hope you will keep posting here. That was an exteemly well expessed opinion and a great statement of fact: re: the lost profit versus thievery. I always read the acticles and lately the author has been expressing a great deal of "toe the line" opinion (must be under some editorial pressure) What I find fascinating though is that the more I read the more I think the author is unaware that she's writing her opinion as fact.
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MCP A+ | |
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| Yea it is a tough call,
lets say you are a poor bastard (like me)
and someone offers you the latest copy of (insert cool program here) 2001? I mean I would never really of bought the program but if I have hard drive space and learning it would come in handy one day, why not.
I prefer to buy my software because I like to have a registered copy. And the stuff that I purchase I really put to use.
Just my opinion.
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| I'm in agreement with macaries on some issues. The Author of the particular article and a few other ones has a different agenda! They stated in one of their responses on this board they didn't want to be hypocritical??? I'm not one to bash anyone but. If we're going to write articles about issues, let's not have participated as well! We all have some way or some how utilized pirated software, and for some people used braindumps, but this doesn't apply to everyone as a whole. It kills me not just on this board but others that i constanly surf people are "Throwing Rocks and hiding their Hands". Stop it people. If you're going to take a stand on some issues don't fool us, because you're fooling yourself also. When a politician runs for office and the heat starts to turn up, skeletons and issues start falling out of the closets on things they've said or done which came back to haunt them, they look silly when they are CALLED OUT.
This is by far one of the best boards that's out here. The participation is extreme. I've learned a lot from the constant post and issues that come about. I tell you that Bobby Digital seems like he's everywhere and giving out great advice and compliments this board as well others. I have no problems with this board i reiterate. The two recent articles i've read recently, The Pirating and the braindumps article i'm disturbed about, not that it happens but is the author's hands clean? We have to be real with ourselves. I'm sure you've heard this term before "I hate an unmarried marriage counselor". Okay i'm finished, I wanted to take a few moments and render my verdict and i think the author is guilty!!!
CyberJudge
"If you always tell the truth, you'll never have to remember what you said". | |
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| When you are a software developer and you have someone "BORROW" or "TEST" one of your applications and you can see the lost $$$ then you can express a true opinion. Until then you all are sitting on the sidelines and pontificating. Piracy is theft in all cases. | |
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| Thank You Reality Check:
It was good to hear the voice of a true software developing professional after so many people were more interested in slamming me - the person.
I think its very important to remember that these boards are for people helping people, and not to take personal shots at anyone - it hurts.
Each article was written as a generalization and did not slam anyone in particular, I am not in the business of hurting other people.
I continue to stand strong on the point that software piracy is in fact theft no matter how you look at it. People can continue to try and justify what they are doing, however in reality you know its theft. Some of you may want to re-read Reality Checks post for a software developers opinion.
I do not write my opinion as fact, I write the truth as fact, and will continue to do so.
The articles I write are based on the opinions of myself, of examnotes, and of people actually working in the Industry.
Oh, and I thank whoever said the kind words about Bobby Digital. As he is a mentor and friend of mine, its nice to hear nice things about him.
I feel that I must have hit a nerve in order to have so many people more interested in slamming me personally than reflecting on themselves. If you can't justify yourself, it is always easier to kill the messanger isn't it folks???
Again, I stand strong - Piracy is theft in all cases!
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS,A+,MCPx2) | |
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| Thanks @ Cyberjudge:-)
Look at software "piracy" like this, if someone pays for it, it is their business what they want to do with it.
This piracy issues has been going one for years with music (i.e. albums, cassettes, and CDs) and video tapes. People share. Period. Industry wise is is wrong because they are not getting all the money they feel they deserve.
The only time I can justify the industry's stance is when it is being pirated for a profit. | |
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| You go girl!!!!!
It saddens me to look at this board and see so many people lashing out at Paisleyskye as a person.
As someone who works in the industry, I watch this board regularly, and over time I have come to look forward to Skye's posts and articles.
I would agree that software piracy is theft in all cases, and would ask that people get some common sense and figure it out for themselves.
Skye - you are the voice of the Industry, I've told you before, don't let these people get you down. You'll be a Network Administrator while they are still sitting on a help desk. You have knowledge, while the sad fact is, the people who are vicously attacking you only have text books.
Don't let it get you down girl! Chin up, little girl and keep going strong! | |
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| Okay no need to get personal! This is business. Let's keep it that way. We are all entitled to an opinion.
I think it is an exaggeration on the subject as Clovis stated. I agree with CyberJudge in that I did not care for the last 2 articles. They are purely judgemental and serve no purpose but to sit in judgement.
PaisleSkye is correct with regards to the money lost but companies are used to it, in fact it is expected. However if nothing else she is controversial, perhaps someone else would care to write? Haven't seen a want ad lately though, so this is wher it ends.
I know, I work with developers and they don't care about the little peanuts they care about their product reputation the fact that it is a coveted product strengthens its reputation. No one seriously worries about piracy, only about the big fish. The developers give it out to whom they wish! It is a given that this is peanuts compared to the actual $ brought in by sales so if you want it for corporate use you may get a couple of freebies to sweeten the deal, to whet your apetite. So when that client is happy he will tell his friends and the marketplace reputation is built! The real money is in big corporate contract sales, support and continued development. I will not say what product this is or what company, but we are a major player in the finance industry. But most software is for profit but it is also donated to schools. However PaisleySkye is entitled to her opinion without an assault! So let's relax. simply take it as food for thought.
Just an opinion,
GalaxyGal  | |
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| Court is in session:
Ok, let me start by saying I understand software piracy is a crime, I know that. You'd think i would by working in software design and development. I'm not green to the fact that Companies or individual efforts goes out the door when it's your product is passed along/borrowed/ pirated/stolen/whatever. I have no problem with the contents or the core of the articles, my problem is if you've helped committ the crime, don't write articles as if you haven't participated in "Software Request". If you had of stated In your article I to have been guilty in the past, but however.... No you haven't hit a nerve as you've indicated. I can appreciate your drive to write articles about issues that support what i do every day 8:30-5:30 M-F and that's to produce a product, test the product and debug the product, so paisley, reality check, and 5 yr administrator it's not about me not having the knowledge, years of experience, or social awareness of the software piracy enigma, fellow techies i have that. There's nothing worse than going to a software show and on the downlow someone offers you a discounted, unlicensed version of your own %#!%&*#@ software.
You can't write or recreate articles that you haven't been guilty of, and i'm sorry if this seems like a personal shot, which i've seen worse on this board, but when the Judge "ABSOLUTELY KNOWS" someone's guilty and pretends they aren't, well i have to render it. This board absolutely blows away some of the others, and frankly I've seen some other boards copy this theme, but they can't copy the caliber of people that post here. If we didn't have conflict, or we didn't jockey for position, i'm sure this board wouldn't exist, because we wouldn't be writing about all good things right? We all are a product of this conflicting computer industy and attributes that arise.
CyberJudge
"I always wanted to be somebody, but i should've been a little more specific (Comedian Lilly Tomlin) | |
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| OK, Let's move on and play nice. The author expresses her opinion in articles. Everyone expresses their personal opinion. No more slamming please. The software piracy issues is a Catch-22. No one is right and no one is wrong. | |
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| I don't agree with 5 year administrator. Sorry I don't think anyone is the voice of the industry. I don't believe for a second that all I have are textbooks and not real knowledge. I have been in the industry for several years. Chances are most of us here are not Newbies!
However I will not take your commets personally. It is simply your opinion.
Bobby I think you're cool and ususally on the ball but I am not so certain this time. I am playing nice this is a discussion not a trial. Could it be you feel the need to defend a friend?
I don't think anyone is being or has beeen slammed. The articles are articles. They are meant to stimulate the mind, have they failed to do just that? No are they well written? Yes clearly. But yes it is a catch-22. There will always be someone looking for free stuff. But you get what you pay for in the long run.
I will admit when I first started in this fieldI had an old bootleg copy of Norton Utilities. But I loved it and still do so when I finally had the money I bought it, should someone need to borrow it I would not hesitate to loan it and perhaps they will like it and purchase it too. It is an individual choice and nothing more.
Always true to myself,
GalaxyGal  | |
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| Cyberjudge:
If the defence may present her case, I'd like to start by saying that my articles are written by me about no one in particular. I never set out to hurt or upset anyone.
I appreciate all of the opinions here, although I feel that I have suffered a personal attack. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but not to hurt someone. I receive lots of favourable e-mails from readers everyday, and I appreciate seeing that not everybody agrees with those e-mails. The world would be a pretty boring place if everybody had the same opinions.
In conclusion, Cyber Judge, I would like to state that when I was writing the article on Software Piracy I was told to make sure it was STRONGLY against software piracy.
So your Honour, I would like to plead guilty of doing exactly what I was told to do.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS,A+,MCPx2) | |
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| Not just defending a friend GalaxyGirl, but it just trying to keep a professional discussion going on. I will defend anyone and their opinion. The forums are supposed to help and stimulate people who visit them.
I learn a lot in these forums as well as give a lot. It just bothers me when a posting will become a slam fest because someone does not agree with another's opinion.
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| Bobby Digital: Sorry if I offended you.
I think I was professional and in no way attacked anyone or their opinions.
But clearly the forum is buzzing with activity and not just today. Personally I like the discussion. I like to know where others stand on current issues.
We are all here to learn so let's learn and grow!
GalaxyGal | |
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| I just wanted to thank Galaxy Gal for stating
in one of her posts that the articles were well written and stimulate the mind. It's the best compliment I've had all day.
And to thank Bobby Digital for his kind post.
I truly appreciate your sincerity.
I think the discussion is great, I like heated debates, I just get hurt when it turns personal.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS,A+,MCPx2)
[This message has been edited by Paisleyskye (edited 10-20-2000).] | |
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| I have to stand in defense of Paisleyskye a little here.
I believe her braindump article was completely on the money, 100%. braindumps are flat-out illegal. The last time you sat down at a computer at a testing location, do you remember a little blurb coming up about how you agree NOT to distribute in full the questions and answers of the test? If you click "yes" to that agreement (I know I had to while taking my A+) then you've agreed not to contribute to a braindump. If you clicked "no", then you didn't take the test. It will not let you. So, those people who reproduce test questions and answers verbatim are breaking a contract that they agreed to when they became certified. That is incredibly unprofessional. There is absolutely nothing wrong with letting people know what material is going to on a test, as a matter of fact the test designers do that themselves. But braindumps are just plain wrong.
And they're useless as well... all they do is give you an opportunity to memorize questions and answers for a test, and if you can't pass the test without a braindump, you don't deserve the certification! You cannot gain knowledge from a braindump like a good manual, course, or CBT will give you. And you won't get feedback like a practice test would. You just get an opportunity to cheat.
And on the software piracy issue... the fact that it is widespread does not excuse it. Rather the opposite, the fact that it is practically accepted shows how much of a problem it is! To be honest, piracy is one of the reasons I decided not to be a programmer. I thought about making shareware programs, but how many people pay the author like they should? I never used to myself, until I realized that if I really liked the program, sending the guy $5 like he asked would encourage him to make more. But I know most people don't do that. And in a way, a commercial program is almost like sharware nowadays. You can get a burned copy for free, or get a full, registered version for money. That is not the way things are supposed to work.
So there are 2 choices here: we can take the prohibition repeal stand, like when they repealed prohibition (people drank whether it was illegal or not, so making it illegal was useless) and make it legal. This would bring the software industry to an end. There is no point in making software for free. Or, get more strict on the regulation of software, make it harder for people to burn CDs, etc. which is what the industry tries to do.
What Paisleyskye is saying and I agree with her, is that it is sad that the industry has to do this to the degree it does. Piracy is illegal, and that should be all there is to the matter.
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SomeGuy A+ | |
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| Paisleyskye,
I've heard your case and the people that came before the court. Before i render my decision i just want to say that NO ONE really wins in this case. When you really analyze the big picture it's all about money. Okay let's say that i'm a Big Company and if i get a lot of people to follow me and follow my beliefs, anything i say you'll do it. If i get people to endorse my products and tell you to go and buy it, you do it. If i come out with a product you buy it, if i come out and say i'm discontinueing this product and you have to upgrade and you do it... Doesn't that sound like a Cult to you?????? Well i'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me. Anyway paisley, you're right in saying and speaking your mind. I see an idiot with an inappropiate name has made a post, so it's time to adjourn this court. You are "Aquitted" on all counts. Court adjourned
What the hell is whistler??? BobbyD i know you have the goods on it, will you share the knowledge?
CyberJudge
" We are often so caught up in our destination That we forget to appreciate the journey,Especially the goodness of the people we meet along the way. Appreciation is a wonderful feeling, don't overlook it." | |
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| Cyberjudge:
Thanks for the aquittal.
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Sincerely,
Paisleyskye
Best wishes and peace to all!!!
(MOUS,A+,MCPx2) | |
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| Cyberjudge, check out a earlier post/reply about Whistler in this forum for your answer.
GalaxyGal, it takes a lot to offend me and you didn't.
See we are one big happy family again:-) | |
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| Most of the posters on this board really do miss the point on both the "Brain Dumps" and "Software Piracy" issues.
The point that needs to be understood is that these are both illegal and unethical. When you take a position in support of these you are saying to the world "I know its wrong but since its unlikely I will get caught I will do it"
Think about it. You are saying that "if it suits you to break the law, you will"
I am the owner of a computer consulting and services company. I survive and grow because of my reputation. I want to deal with reputatble clients and they will only deal with reputable service providers. (Reputable clients also pay well and on time) My clients know they can trust me because I never give them any reason to think otherwise. In business your reputation is everything and do you really want to be know as "A thief"
When I hire employees do you think I really want to hire someone who has a flexable code of ethics? Never! If you are going to work for me you must live by the same standards that I demand in business.
If you think that piracy does not affect larger corporations then you know absolutely nothing about business. Every sale lost to piracy means that the legitimate buyer pays more. The economies of sale decrease and markets are lost.
This discussion seems to be about the authors stand on piracy. IS IT? From what I see it seems to be an attempt to justify your own positions.
If you did not feel some guilt over this issue you would likely just ignore the article.
Any truly professional organization has a strong code of ethics. If you wish to be considered a "Professional" then you better start to act like one.
If you truly feel that piracy is acceptable in certain situations then please post your home addresses on the board. I am sure that there are lots or people who live near you who would like to "Test Drive" your car, computer, TV, etc. They might even promise to wipe them out when their done with them. nd be assured that it really won't cost you(the supplier) anything.
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| Reality Check, I think you just said it all!
Thank-you. | |
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| Yes, Reality Check, I would tend to agree with you. Software Piracy is both illegal and immoral, and to state otherwise is wrong.
From what I've seen on this board today, almost everyone has been judging the young woman and not the article. The courtroom scene was ludicrist. She should not have to defend herself for writing an article.
Paisleyskye, I have this to say to you. Look at the commotion you've caused and the passion you've stirred up. It is my belief that you have finally arrived, enjoy it, bask in it, and get back to work.
In agreement with Reality Check for those who still believe that under some circumstances software piracy is okay - would you consider it okay if someone were to test drive you husband or your wife. | |
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| I for one like the article.
I have to tell you all that before Paisleyskye submitts articles to me, I have to OK them.
I wanted to be sure that if we have an article about software piracy, the article must be strongly against the software piracy.
I am happy to see that so many people actually read our articles.
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Webmaster and founder of this site and of
<A HREF="http://www.cert21.com"" TARGET=_blank>Cert21.com</A>
MCSE+I, CNA, A+, N+, I-NET+ | |
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| First of all, thanks to PaisleySkye for writing a very thought-out article that addresses an extremely important topic. If you don't think it's important, just take a look at how this particular thread exploded within an 8 hour period.
I firmly believe piracy can be thought of as a chicken-and-egg situation. Would piracy be popular if software was not prohibitively expensive? Would software be prohibitively expensive if piracy did not exist? I don't know. However, I do think that some pricing and licensing procedures, in effect, encourage piracy. Please hear me out.
Right now, if I want to buy a developer (not server) edition of SQL Server 2000, I have to pay $499 MSRP according to MS. If I'm doing a standard server upgrade for 5 clients, the cost is $749. That sounds about right, doesn't it? However, consider this. I can buy a full version of Windows Me for, what, $200? In fact, I can buy a step-up version to ride over Win98 for $50. I'm not comparing Windows Me to SQL Server. However, don't you think all the evolving R&D that goes into making an OS - piece by piece from the first DOS - would be just as complex (if not moreso) then the R&D that goes into making a database server? Further, I have heard the issue raised that Microsoft could charge $70 for each copy of an operating system but decides to charge $200 (I'm talking full version) simply because they can. I'm not taking issue with that price. I'm taking issue with the fact that prices are not based on development effort, but on market expectation. Quite simply, a home user would not pay 500 bucks for an OS. And most businesses can sure afford to buy a database solution for $700, so they do that simply because they can. And MS bases their pricing off those expectations. Which I think is patently unfair.
Please understand, I am not picking on MS in particular. Adobe seems to have a penchant for making incredibly overpriced software. Photoshop can run upwards of $500 (business application, of course), but when they strip a couple features out and give it a prettier box as Photoshop LE, it's targeted at consumers on a much tighter budget. Note the actual increased development time to produce a cheaper product. Weird, huh? Also, I won't even talk about their fonts - which they usually don't even develop, but buy from descendents of typesetters, then charge $200 for.
So, when somebody new comes into the IT field and wants to learn SQL server, you can see where the exasperation comes from when they see the price tag. I'm not justifying the wholesale trading of MS software, just mentioning where some of the seeds of piracy are sewn.
Finally, I noticed the original article mentioned exam preparation software. I am assuming this is a euphamism for Transcender. Nobody doubts Transcender makes the best prep tools out there. But Transcender has an interesting twist. Licensing forbids the sale of the product once you own it, and I don't even know if you could give it away. Doesn't this seem strange? Compare this to a book...If I read a New Riders book to prepare for a certification, New Riders does not mind that I give away or even sell that book after I am done. Ebay is full of such exam books. However, if that preparation tool is a software product, not a book, that suddenly changes the rules and bizarre licensing can be enforced. Of course Transcender loses money when you sell or give away their product. But so does New Riders. And when is the last time people wrote articles condemning the practice of sharing and reselling books? You could even extend the argument to say that libraries are dens of thieves. Theoretically, Michael Crichton doesn't receive a dime if I read his latest novel from a borrowed book. But he doesn't enforce any licensing rules to stop me.
And there I think is the problem. Old analogies don't apply to software. Maybe they should. I don't know. I do know that a confusing and exploitive pricing scheme, along with overzealous reselling restrictions cause many to become cynical of the software industry. Some turn that cynicism into piracy.
Thanks for listening to this incredibly long post. And thanks for the discussion.
Cheers,
Mark, MCP+SB | |
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| Yes Paisleskye,
You had everyone watching you, and you were the center of attention for a whole day without even trying. You did this, other people made the posts, but you started the fire. Think about it, if you can do this without even trying, what could you do if you put some calculated effort into it?
You have the whole world at your feet little girl, what are you going to do with it?
[This message has been edited by 5 year administrator (edited 10-21-2000).] | |
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| Echidna...
Your reply was very interesting. You brought up some very good points, including the reason why many people turn to piracy. But, unfortunately, what you mentioned as unfair (selling products based on what is expected as a price, or selling at what people will pay for them) is how capitalism works. Do you think that it costs Nike anywhere NEAR $100 to produce a pair of their expensive tennis shoes? Or have you gone to a car dealership and seen a car given a "dealer markup" of $1,000 or more, based only on the fact that it is currently popular? Every product you ever buy, from toothpaste to video games to hamburgers, is based on supply and demand. If a business can afford thousands of dollars for software that was not difficult to research and produce, well, then they will pay thousands for it. If they need it. I can tell you, every businessman sells at the price that is the most profitable. I have been an Business Administration student, a salesman, a manager of a store, and an independent businessman. And frankly, you have to get what you can out of every product, or you will not survive (most don't, for example I am currently a computer tech  ).
And your analogy about books being shared... well, as you said it doesn't fit very well. In the case of Transcenders, yes, it does because it won't let itself be shared among users. But it is in the minority, what actually happens most of the time with piracy is closer to someone making photocopies of a book page by page and handing it out to his friends. Now that is flat-out illegal. And the reason Transcenders is so picky about how it is distributed is not due to greed, but due to the fact that this piracy issue is so widespread (that I have witnessed and dealt with all my life), that they must do what they can to protect their product.
Please do not get me wrong Echidna. Your post was eloquent, well thought out, and you presented yourself with much intelligence. I can see as others that you are as opposed to piracy as anyone else. I just wanted to express my disagreement with just a couple of your points.
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SomeGuy A+ | |
| Joe College 2000-10-21, 11:34 pm |
| So, no one here has EVER borrowed software from a friend? No one in here has ever let a friend borrow a piece of software? No one here has ever borrowed a video tape, CD, book or anything else from a friend? No one here has downloaded an MP3 of a particular song? No one has ever sat in a book store like Barnes & Noble to read a book or magazine without buying it?
Point is that piracy is piracy in any form. When you buy software you have a right to do what you want with it just as long as you are not making a profit. Like Bobby Digital said this subject is a Catch-22. No winners and no losers. | |
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| Wow, I never thought one little post of mine (my first post by the way) would spark up such a discussion. I'm glad to see the many different opinions expressed as a result; this more than meets the requirements to bring a smile on my face. I love to spark up a long discussion; but I must give credit where credit is due, and that would be for Paisleyskye.
To you, I apologize for not being more clear in my post that I actually enjoyed the article. Just because I have a difference of opinions doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy reading it. I in no way meant to make a personal attack on you or the article itself; merely shed some light from a different angle on the subject.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and the ones whom write articles should be respected a great deal for opening themselves up to an area where other opinions may clash. I feel strongly toward my opinion, but not enough to forget that I need to keep an open mind.
I'm about to shed some light from a new angle. Please keep in mind as you read the following that I get a little overboard with my postings and may ramble a bit about something that's already been stated before.
Piracy, as well as theft, is a crime. That's the bottom line. But I believe there's a grey line in the crime itself; would you convict a person of a felony for pirating software whose value exceeds $50?
It really comes down to human nature. I know I'm being abstract here, but let's assume for a minute that we're not talking about piracy. Let's for a moment change the whole idea and use another:
You are a hard worker in the medival era, you work every day to bring home enough money to purchase the king's excess food. Food that your family depends on, but the king has a virtually unlimited ammount of. Assume that the king one day decides to increase the expense and charge you a week's worth of income for one day's worth of food.
If you were back to your basic primal instincts and had a family to feed, would you not 'steal' the king's extra food if you could do so with the following conditions?
1. You know that you aren't actually hurting the king himself; just denying him of his extra income.
2. You know that you probably won't be caught; and if you are, there is enough contriversy on the subject that you could make a legitimately good stand on the issue.
3. You don't commit any other crimes, and even purchase other things from the king that you are able to afford and feel are worth the money. So the king gets his money anyway.
4. The king could easily give out excess food, but then again, if he did so too much he could get to the point of breaking even..
Now, I know what most everyone would like to say about this already: that software is nothing like food, that piracy and theft are both illegal, and that I don't know what I'm talking about. That is fine, my opinion is my opinion and may only be worth anything to me.
But please, if you feel strongly on something, don't be afraid to voice your opinion. You may be scorned, but you will feel much better about yourself in the long run.
I'm not a writer, maybe I should be, I don't know. But for everyone that replied with light on the subject or a unique idea, I thank you. Along with Paisleyskye, I enjoyed your article and hope to see more from you. Keep that in mind, even if I post the exact opposite opinion.
-Clovis Taylor, CEO
LuTec Computing, Inc.
-Edited again for words which were censored and/or mistakes made in first post. Wish I knew which words are considered 'bad' so that I can avoid typing them in my posts.
[This message has been edited by Clovis (edited 10-21-2000).] | |
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| GalaxyGal wrote: "...perhaps someone else would care to write? Haven't seen a want ad lately though, so this is wher it ends."
But it doesn't look here: http://www.examnotes.net//makemoney.shtml
where it says "We are also looking for writers to write a new monthly articles about certification. "
Maybe someone could write about consumer rights regarding puchased and resold software? Or the value of resoursefulness as demonstrated in the use of braindumps?
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MCP A+ | |
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| Personally, I would like to see an article on the effects of technology on a large population. Namely, the bad side effects, if any; and how they could be resolved.
I think Tony Smejek's article on youngsters in the IT industry comes pretty close to explaining a potentially bad side effect to technology.
One of the interesting things I've always been concerned with in moving along to a technical field has been the need to adapt to a growing technology. Technology in itself becomes more advanced every day, and to stay in the field you would have to be aware of changes and able to adapt in time to make the best use of them.
I hate to say it, but as we get older our willingness to learn about much of anything decreases; therefore, with the need to keep up to date with technology, we need to really strain ourselves to adapt. This makes me concerned about my career in the future. I fear that one day, someone that is younger than I will have all the needed knowledge to take my position even though I have worked so long and hard to gain my status.
I know this happens on a regular basis, but it concerns me mostly because I have surpassed my father in his technology field. Aside from the actual work experience, I feel I am already qualified to take over his position in the technology field. Namely because he hasn't kept up with technology and I didn't need to learn everything he did about the older technology, just the newer.
Sorry to go so off of the topic there, but I really would like some form of assurance that I won't be outdated in a few years..
This topic is getting quite long, and I fear that many won't read this far into it. Three pages already, and I have a post on each. I might continue this new thread onto another topic post if it seems to spark anyone else's interest.
-Clovis Taylor, CEO
LuTec Computing, Inc. | |
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| To me it all starts with yourself, this article was great and it sparks a kinda dilemma at least for me.
I think if we at least think about it and realize that it IS very wrong and follow through with that thought instead of thinking only of ourselves, then it would be great. But unfortunatly the natural instinct
seems to be of "me, myself and I" and screw everybody else.
But if at least you start with yourself it would be one more person giving example to others! I guess this applies to other things in life as well. I am glad this article was put up as it brings attention to this problem.
In that same vein what do you guys and gals think of this..
At Electronique Boutique you can trade or sell your used games or buy used games.
Why are they allowed to do that???
In other words a bloke like me could say acquire a new game then burn it on another disk and resell the game. Meanwhile they turn around and sell back to some other person. If that same person did the same, burn and sell... think of the lost sales for
the software company!!!
Incredible.
Any opinions on this form of open "piracy"?
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| Clovis:
Thank you so much for your kind words in your last post. I'm glad you enjoyed the article.
Your opinions are your opinions. Like I said earlier in this thread - the world would be a pretty boring place if everybody thought the same way.
Paisleyskye | |
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| Macaries:
I'm not so sure about that. The webmaster already has someone who is good and productive.
The webmaster even made a post earlier in this thread, so obviously he is happy with Paisleyskye's work. Why wouldn't he be? It is obvious at this point that people read her articles.
Besides, I only saw about 6 people in this thread that were actually against Paisleyskye. According to the home page, there are over 3000 members to this site, so 6 upset people aren't going to make much of a difference.
Macaries, everybody else in this thread has gotten off Paisleyskye's back and admitted that she is indeed a very good writer. Why can't you just let it go.
The webmaster obviously likes her, so she's not going anywhere. In his post he even stated that he set the tone for the article.
And Macaries, I really don't think the webmaster here would accept an article about braindumps or Software Piracy being okay anyway. If he has to approve her articles he would have to approve yours.
The bottom line is this. The webmaster obiously likes her writing,and really, so do I. Alot of people, including the person who started this thread have come back and said she was a very good writer and it was a very thought out article. Continuing with this now, makes you appear petty.
Paisleyskye, we may not always see eye to eye, but your still my girl. Keep doing what you are doing, if it wasn't working, there wouldn't be so many posts in this thread.
[This message has been edited by Undercover Angel (edited 10-22-2000).] | |
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| Undercover Angle (1post) are you unwilling to use your regular handle: Logged
Paisleyskye
I will draw your attention to this link where a journalistic integrity question must be answered by you: http://www.examnotes.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000153.html
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MCP A+ | |
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| WOW - thanks angel.
And thank you to everyone who liked the article. I was really suprised to see you finally registered on this site angel. Like you said angel, we may not always see eye to eye, but its nice to be appreciated.
At first I was upset by all of this, but as I read the posts again, I realize that this is a really big issue. Huge! I tackled it, and I got a response like this.
Whether people are agreeing or disaggreeing with me, they are reading the article. Whether people share my opinions or not, they are debating the issue, and it is being brought to light.
I wasn't trying to win anything when I wrote the article, I was just stating the fact that software piracy is theft. I was asked earlier in this thread if I've ever done it - and the cold hard truth is, only when I was researching the article. I wanted to write the article, and I had to know the proper words to use. Some people posting in here may think I used them in my research because I didn't come right out and tell them why I needed the information, and that may be why they have such a problem with the article.
I have four young children (8 and under), and I spend a lot of time teaching them about morals and about how stealing is wrong. I'm not about to turn around and do it myself. | |
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| Macaries,
Thats a pretty serious accusation you just made there. I think you should really think about that, here is not one sole on this site who doesn't know that IPs are logged, and I wouldn't be so stupid as to pull a stunt like that.
For you information, if you really must know, Undercover Angel is my husbands sister Angel Stevens who is visiting with us for the weekend.
She'studying for her MCSE in Hamilton and I have been telling her about this site. I admit I know her, but she didn't even register from this computer, although she did make her post from here. She says she registered last week. I was unaware of some of the things she stated in her post, but I think she did a good job defending me, and I'm not going to let anybody put her down.
Angel and I may not always see eye to eye, but NOBODY says anything bad about her around me. HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR!!!
Obviously you really have a dislike for me personally to make an accusation like that, and that is your problem. I can't do anything about that, except to say to keep your personal feelings out of the forum. They are for people helping people. If you would like to make a personal attack - e-mail me.
Also - for anyone who wants to know about what Macaries was talking about regarding my journalistic integrity:
If you follow the link she so graciously provided in her post it will take you to a post I made quite a while back regarding MCSE's not being stripped of their MCSE status after the NT4 exams retire. Which my Instructor has stated was Microsofts first stand on the issue before they changed the groud rules. At that time, to the best of my knowledge it was a true statement. But it was merely a post in a forum, not a researched article.
Very recently I wrote the Lanop article, which was researched, and in it I stated that NT4 MCSE's would be stripped of their certification if they didn't upgrade by December 31st 2001. This is Microsoft's current stand on the issue.
Immediately underneath my post in the particular forum Macaries is pointing out, she has made a post asking some question about the conflict between the old post and the new article. I am going to make a post to spell it out for her as soon as I finish here.
I hardly think you can use that incidence to put me down Macaries. E-mail me and tell me what your problem is, I'd really like to help.
Paisleyskye
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| Macaries and anybody who cares:
When I made my post, I never expected my sister-in-law to take a beating for it.
If I had of known that this girl really hated Tracey so much, I never would have made it.
Everything I said in my post is true though, people have stopped jumping on her back, and started saying that her articles are good. The webmaster made a post in here and and said he set the tone for the article. I was just saying what I had seen, and I didn't know why someone was still beating her like a dead horse.
I registered for this forum today, Tracey thought it was last week when she made her last post, but it was today before I came here.
She told me there were nice people in here, and that it was a good site to be a part of, and that the people were really friendly.
From what I've seen from this one person in particular, I don't want any part of a site where people treat other people like this. All I did was ask Macaries to leave my sister-in-law alone, and she started throwing accusations around.
I'm sorry but thats just not professional. I don't want to be associated with this.
[This message has been edited by Undercover Angel (edited 10-22-2000).] | |
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| And as I seem to be an important issue all of a sudden, when really Software Piracy should be, I chose my user name for one reason only:
Undercover Angel was a popular song in the 70s, I love the song, and Tracey thought the name would be perfect because everybody always calls me Angel (My real name is Angela). I have been using that name on other sites for a long time now. | |
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| Joe college - You obviously did not read my last post, or didn't understand what I was saying in it. Piracy is not letting someone borrow or use software. Piracy is the illegal reproduction of software (at the simplest definition). Reading books at a bookstore but not paying for them is like using a demo of software in a store without buyin it, which is perfectly legal.
Clovis - that was classy of you to amend your post by pointing out that you weren't meaning to attack Paisleyskye personally. One problem with your example though... in a Medieval society, if the King ever found out, the guy would probably be torured and executed, and his family might have to go through even worse!
Macaries - what is your problem? You seem to have a personal agenda against Paisleyskye. You have gone to a lot of effort to find one little detail in one post (not article, post) that she wrote over a month ago! And to accuse her of coming on as another person to defend herself... that is just a plain stupid accusation. Why in the heck would she do that, when she already has other people coming to her defense, and has had the courage to stand up for herself already? Ok, if it's ok to throw accusations in this thread that are completely groundless, then I accuse you of smoking crack!
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SomeGuy A+ | |
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| I wasn't going to post anything else on this topic, but I reallyt want to know why has this one post brought out the worst in a lot of people the last few days?
You have people jumping on Paisleyskye because of her personal OPINION. She's a good person and does not deserve this kind of treatment.
Undercover Angel was jumped on for no reason at all. Why? Because she defended Paisleyskye.
About a month ago, Paisleyskye talked me into continuing to visit this site after I got tired of reading members and first time visitors getting smart @$$ replys from other members. People come here for answers and not to be belittled or looked upon as stupid.
Everything that has gone on with this posting really upset her and now I am the one trying to convince her to continue to visit the forums. | |
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| STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT ...please This was an awesome thread & one of the first that I've seen where people freely discussed both sides of an issue brought up in an examnotes article. Some new people with alot on the ball entered the conversation because they were invited:
Please note at the end of the article is the statment "Comments? Post them in our forum. Anyone can post a message, no registration is required."
BUT After seeing how the author jumps in not just defending her opinion (which is admirable) but demanding all of oposing opinion to assage her immagined hurt (not admirable) I don't think many will opose again. Then having frends and relatives jump on me just because I wouldn't lie down and say I liked it that's so ..well I don't want to exaserbate this situation just try and think about that from my point of view. I have read all the articles and many I did like but frankly this one had a lecturing tone about it that I didn't like. Why can't I say that without being accused of making a personal attack? It's just my opinion, 1 in 3000 as has been pointed out.
I have participated well in this form and am proud of my handle macaries. You should all be proud of yours as well. I have come here to this forum and got some very good answers to my questions and I have been fortunate to help others with theirs. I have also credited this site with furthering me in my IT profession and I tell everyone I know to come here and make use of the examnotes and the practise exams.
So please here's my advise on how to use this forum: stick to facts, express an opinion as an opinion, have sense of humur and when a thead turns silly like this one have the good sense to end it.
Peace to all | |
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| Ok, Ok,
I am please with the fact that so many people read our articles. We have over 3000 members, but for each registered member there must be about 100 people that just browsing and are not registered members yet.
I think that this thread is not going anywhere and should be closed. Any objections?
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| I think this has gone on long enough. I like the fact that we all shared our opinions the only thing I disliked is being preached to.
Clearly if we disagreed we posted our opinion and strongly.
The last 2 articles are clearly that(preaching), and the webmaster did indeed direct the focus.
Perhaps this is not an open forum, as I thought it was. However it is clear that there is intelligent life out there. I was starting to believe otherwise as some postings would lead you to believe.
I don't take anything too personally. You can't not in this field.
Perhaps too many people here did just that.
Signing off,
GalaxyGal
[This message has been edited by GalaxyGal (edited 10-22-2000).] | |
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| Close the thread. Just a caution to some of the posters on the thread. Boards like this need a mixture of new and experienced members. Experienced people will not stick around when discussion get to the level of personal insults.
Stick to facts and you will earn the respect of your peers. Take a stand and defend it well and you will be respected. Take a stand that is clearly illegal or unethical and you will be taken to task (Not insulted personally).
I found it interesting that the past two articles generated such vigourous discussion. Both of these articles addressed legal issues which have already been settled in court. Very Interesting!!!
I would strongly encourage the author to continue to tackle even more controversial issues related to IT.
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| Wow! When i left court on friday this was a almosted closed discussion. I've read the many additional post and find this one very, very, interesting. Reality Check indicates a good point when it comes to personal attacks and that experienced people are needed and that some will leave when the heat is turned On. If you break these post down you'll find that it's deeper than the article itself. This has gone on long before this board. Paisleyskye indicates some people are angry because that she was using them or something to that effect. I don't know the full 411, and neither do i care. The issues of braindumps and Piracy are two issues that should take the backseat to more important issues, however we choose to tackle it. The legal issues surronding both aren't a mystery. Someone challenged the fact of not being able to post freely here, and you do have to wonder, but any organization or group for that matter have rules and a tolerance, especially When it gets personal. If you bound many pages together which provide questions and answers to a particular subject ,get it licensed and endorsed and Sell it to make money it's called a "Study Guide"... If you bound together many pages which provide questions and answers to a particular subject and don't get it licensed and endorsed and prevent sales for money it's called a "BrainDump".
It's a dead issue, and the debates will go on forever, no matter what anyone says this issue will be just that an issue. I must stat i'm very impressed at the closeness the author paisleyskye has with other members, they rescued her and sided with her and supported her, She's doing something right? People learn from this, you don't gain creditablity and alligiance without substance. Good thing this wasn't a nielsen ratings, because we'd have the number one show.
CyberJudge
"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything". |
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