MCDST - Cert is active and now available

Author

Cert is active and now available

azimuth40

2004-02-10, 12:30 am

No one else has done it so I guess I get first post. Several here have passed. If you have not heard of it this cert forms the floor of Microsoft's new four tier cert pyramid. The top tier cert does not exist yet so for the moment we have MCDST, MCSA, MCSE.

JimJohnson

2004-02-10, 2:07 am

I'm one of those that got the MCDST by taking the beta exams. It's my first Charter membership. It's actually motivating me to take my 70-218 to finish my MCSA.

If anyone has any questions, I'd be glad to answer em if I can. Good luck to all!

- JJ

aznluvsmc

2004-02-10, 11:29 am

I never knew MS was developing a cert that is higher than MCSE.

Hey JimJohnson,

Is there any reason for a person with my certifications to take the MCDST? It seems to me that if you already have MCSE, then the MCDST is just a rehash of the basic topics.

azimuth40

2004-02-10, 2:02 pm

quote:

"Chetan Pal" <chetan.pal@hp.com> wrote in message
news:b95801c3ecb6$86f37110$a00
1280a@phx.gbl...
> How is this different from other certifications like MCSE,
> and if it is different then what are the +ve points
> regarding the same.

Chetan,

Each of the Microsoft credentials are focused on a job role. The MCSE is
targeted at Systems Engineers while the MCDST is targeted at Desktop Support
Technicians. The difference is the job role and the tasks that the people in
that job role perform.

More information about the target audience and the benefits of this
credential can be found here.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcdst/default.asp

--
Alice Ciccu
Assessments and Certification Exams
Microsoft Learning

"This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties and confers no rights."

JimJohnson

2004-02-10, 3:03 pm

Well, it depends on your job role and you're activeness with Windows XP. If you are not a HelpDesk person, and you admin or you work with systems architecture, then no - MCDST is prob not for you. I'm a help-desk/tape monkey at my job. We just rolled out XP across the company so it can't hurt my career. Also, I know a lot of MCSE's that can engineer and design a beautiful network and AD environment, but have no friggin idea as to the low level intricacies of maintaining and fixing desktops. But then again, there are a lot of MCSE's that are helpdesk monkeys and are incredibly over-qualified to do that job. I guess what I'm asking is, what do you do at your job? :-)

aznluvsmc

2004-02-10, 3:15 pm

Well, I'm currently working at the HelpDesk as a coop placement for school. Been here for 13.5 months already and I still have another 5.5 months to go.

I'm expected to graduate with a Diploma in Computer Networking in August 2005 after which I plan to find a junior level position in Network Administration. I believe my experience in troubleshooting desktop clients will greatly enhance my ability to troubleshoot network issues.

I do not plan to take the MCDST as I already have an A+ certification for computer hardware and my MCSE (once I get it) basically covers the Windows OS.

From my experience, I believe troubleshooting desktop clients requires more experience than text book solutions. You won't find an answer to why Outlook all of a sudden started throwing up error messages left, right and centre in the MCDST book.

JimJohnson

2004-02-10, 3:42 pm

Well, I respect your plans for post-graduation, but the way Microsoft is going to be pushing this certification, they may make it seem that being an MCSE/MCSA would not be appropriate for a help-desk position. I don't know how the tech industry is out where you are, but around here, finding the ideal tech job ain't that easy. If you are working with a lot of XP machines, getting the MCDST can't hurt when it comes to job hunting after graduation. You know how PHB's get when Microsoft comes down from the mountain and says "It is so." They may skip right over MCSE's because their knowledge base is so wide and covers so much that it may be out of the scope of a help-desk job. MCDST may be the new cert buzzword like MCSA was 3 years ago. Getting out of college, I'd say A+, Network+, MCDST and *maybe* Security+ would be a good place to launch a career from. I looks at it this way; I'm certified in IBM AS/400 operations (command line ... no gui

) - if I'm applying for a job as an AS/400 systems operator or systems analyst against someone that has some IBM Enterprise architecture certification, the company may want to go with me because I have more hands on knowledge of the actual AS/400. The other guy can set up some awesome network with AS/400, DB2, Trivoli, ATL's, Escon directors and mainframes, but can he do the precise work needed on the AS/400? Can he add PTF's or change the IPL script? I have no idea, he's not certified on the iSeries itself! But of course, that could all be a moot point if he too is a 400 operator but with a much grander (in scope) certification. I like to think of it as starting with a solid base and making a progression. A+, Network+ MCDST, MCSA, Server+, Security+, MCSA: Security, MCSE, MCSE: Security. Thats the progression that I'm working on. I see it as a stack of certifications that have a good foundation. But I also realize that this progression must be in tune with my job positions as well. I would feel like an XXX if I got my MCSE: Security next month because I don't do that kind of work. And I probably won't for a long time. So this progression is slow, but it works. I see you have a lot of good foundation certs, but would a hiring manager look at you straight out of college and see you as a fully qualified, real-world MCSE: Security? Not saying that you aren't of course .. but sometimes you have to look at yourself as a hiring manager with a skeptical eye would look at you. Good luck to you man!!

aznluvsmc

2004-02-10, 3:59 pm

You have a point. I see the MCSE certifications as knowledge and not experience. I'd rather have a new graduate with an MCSE than a new graduate without an MCSE. I don't think any hiring manager would think a new graduate would know everything about networking but having an MCSE is a good foundation to build experience on.

Anyways, good luck on your career path. For me, after 1.5 years at the Help Desk, I'm ready to move forward.

azimuth40

2004-02-10, 4:09 pm

Much of what JimJohnson says rings true. Both he (unless he changed handles) and I just were on the MS live chat with the various product managers. They said as much and are about to launch a major education and advertising campaign. They also hinted that many large companies are already on-board with this cert and it is what these companies wanted to lower training costs.

Actually this should be very good for MCSA/MCSE and stop HR people from demanding these certs for first level support persons. Microsoft is going to finally say that those are the wrong certs for the help desk.

One has to only look at how they have pushed entry certs like the MOS certs which many laughed at until places like Pepperdine U business school started requiring them in the curriculum for MBA degrees.

I think that they should have added a third test with a hardware component. MSPress already had books on A+. Maybe they were afraid of problems from CompTIA since they are a major member.

Now we have to wait for the other shoe to drop with the coming top tier Architect certification. Hopefully that will bring a hands on lab like RedHat's. It seems that someone is finally listening.

azimuth40

2004-02-10, 4:20 pm

BTW I found two things interesting. Microsoft is expecting this to be their most popular cert. Virtual Sound Byte mode.

quote:

Did you know that over 300 people are now MCDST-certified since the certification became available last week? All of these individuals will receive special Charter Membership recognition.

and this one but no hint of where the numbers came from

quote:

A: We expect this one to be as popular (or even more popular) that the MCSA and MCSE certifications. In the US alone, there are over 500,000 positions, with 100,000 of those positions open.

The full transcript will be available next week on the MS learning site.

aznluvsmc

2004-02-10, 5:02 pm

There was an article on Certcities in which the author suggested MS adopt CompTIA A+ as another requirement to MCDST. A Help Desk person is not much use if they can't troubleshoot hardware issues. I highly doubt MS will develop their own hardware certification as A+ is already internationally recognized.

Does MCDST cover basic network configuration and troubleshooting concepts?

JimJohnson

2004-02-10, 5:42 pm

It's an interesting point about requiring A+ for the MCDST, but in a way, it's two different jobs. In the best case scenario for Microsoft, the MCDST will be working in a full Windows XP / Server 2003 environment where they can Remote Desktop into a machine and look at things in the Control Panel, etc. Beyond that, it usually goes to the tech support people that actually go to the customers computer. I know I can troubleshoot hardware problems from here, but if I don't think the customer can follow my directions (even for unplugging and plugging a network cable), I move it to department that actually goes to the location to do the fixing. I know that some smaller companies have a helpdesk that does both, but we have two different organizations. No one in our entire helpdesk dept is certified in *anything* .. they've received some basic and specialized training with NT 4.0 and with XP, and anything they can't handle goes to the next level. I agree though that a helpdesk person should be A+, but I don't think MS will make it a MCDST requirement.

JimJohnson

2004-02-10, 5:49 pm

quote:
Originally posted by aznluvsmc
Does MCDST cover basic network configuration and troubleshooting concepts?

Let me put it to you this way - I'm glad I had my 70-210, 70-215 and A+ before taking the exam. There's a little bit of all three mixed in. Along with some very bad questions to go with the horrid options for answers.

Hopefully they cleaned some of the questions and answers from the beta up a bit ...

JimJohnson

2004-02-10, 6:03 pm

quote:
Originally posted by aznluvsmc
You have a point. I see the MCSE certifications as knowledge and not experience. I'd rather have a new graduate with an MCSE than a new graduate without an MCSE. I don't think any hiring manager would think a new graduate would know everything about networking but having an MCSE is a good foundation to build experience on.

Anyways, good luck on your career path. For me, after 1.5 years at the Help Desk, I'm ready to move forward.

Good point, but I've always believed that one can only gain knowledge through experience. It's kind of the difference between book-smarts and street-smarts. Does the hiring manager want the MCSE who's helped execute the NT 4.0 -> 2003 migration with 1500 clients or the person who's read about how to do the migration? Not saying you don't know how to do it of course ... just a generalization. Of course, if you take the instructor led MCSE classes, you get some hands on experience. I use certifications as an ice-breaker for job interviews. I like to think of certs as a level of familiarity and understanding to the position I'm applying for. I'm not a n00b on the subject, I understand what the process is and I can quickly get up to speed. That's how I tend to use them when they get brought up in an interview. They will see your academic records and your work records more then anything else. To really add value to your portfolio, start begging the MCSE's and MCSA's at your coop to get some project work under your belt. I just got through doing some project work in AIX with some admins that people were really happy with. It's that kind of thing that makes the difference in the job interview. Projects, projects, projects. Get noticed, get experience. The certifications will help, but don't let them define you as a professional. Don't let people think that you are "just" an MCSE: Security.

aznluvsmc

2004-02-10, 6:54 pm

The MCSE's in my work place are not very knowledgeable. Let's just say the bill for our support calls regarding network issues is in the 5 figures. I have more knowledge than they do. They're all NT 4 certified without any academic computer background. We are currently moving to AD as soon as the contractors work out the plan and implement it.

They need support from the Help Desk just to fix their own laptops.

aznluvsmc

2004-02-10, 7:01 pm

As a side note regarding my MCSE certification, I do have hands on experience as I have a 4 computer home lab set up. Although it may not be enterprise level experience I have gained a great deal of knowledge as the labs have not gone as smoothly as I had hoped but I was able to troubleshoot them and build up my personal knowledgebase.

My computer networking program at school deals with a wide array of topics which include Windows, UNIX/Linux, Novell NetWARE, Cisco, AS/400, scripting, databases, network design, security and a host of other courses. I believe this will allow me to show a broad range of skills at the beginner level and then concentrate on my security specialization.

JimJohnson

2004-02-10, 7:42 pm

If you can, get in good with the contractors and talk to them about what you've been learning and if there's anything you can do to help them. That kind of voluntary participation in a major project goes a long way as far as your development goes along with possible career openings. I remember helping a shipping vendor of ours that worked in one of our distribution centers and was having problems with one of their computers. We didn't even own the darn thing! I volunteered and went over to get their PC's working again. I was on the line with one of their managers explaining the problem and how I fixed it and she pretty much offered me a job! It also looked really good on my mid-year and year-end review. Plus we kept them working and shipping out packages which was important for us obviously :-) Get involved if you can, whats the worst they can say, no?

afalbrig

2004-02-15, 5:54 pm

quote:
Originally posted by JimJohnson
I'm one of those that got the MCDST by taking the beta exams. It's my first Charter membership. It's actually motivating me to take my 70-218 to finish my MCSA. If anyone has any questions, I'd be glad to answer em if I can. Good luck to all!

- JJ

How were the tests? I'm MCSE+I (NT4), MCSA (2000), and I haven't extensively studied WinXP, but I've fixed various problems on XP desktops and done a few migrations. I'm interested in getting the cert as well. Should I wait for educational material to come out and then study that, or just sit the tests cold?

JimJohnson

2004-03-06, 5:05 am

quote:
Originally posted by afalbrig
How were the tests? I'm MCSE+I (NT4), MCSA (2000), and I haven't extensively studied WinXP, but I've fixed various problems on XP desktops and done a few migrations. I'm interested in getting the cert as well. Should I wait for educational material to come out and then study that, or just sit the tests cold?

I don't know if you still want a response because I haven't been around, but I'll give you one anyways. Immerse yourself in XP, buy some books, setup a lab and just get comfy. If you have the money and don't want to wait, take one of the tests cold ... it's a good way to see what the test is all about. If you can wait, then wait for the books and immerse yourself. Good luck!

- Jim

tusi2

2004-03-07, 2:02 pm

quote:
Originally posted by afalbrig
How were the tests? I'm MCSE+I (NT4), MCSA (2000), and I haven't extensively studied WinXP, but I've fixed various problems on XP desktops and done a few migrations. I'm interested in getting the cert as well. Should I wait for educational material to come out and then study that, or just sit the tests cold?

My MCSA friend told me that the tests were easy, and that I should just take them cold. I had never taken an MS test before, and was only A+ certified. I signed up to take both tests back to back. Took the XP test first... scored a 783 while I needed a 700 to pass. I found the Apps test to be a bit harder, but perhaps that was because I have more experience with working with just NT. The tests were heavy on: file permissions, DNS, and scenario-based tech support questions. I thought the test was quite interesting, but if you already have your MCSA, and really have the knowledge to back it up, MCDST should be cake for you.

tusi2

2004-03-07, 2:19 pm

quote:
Originally posted by aznluvsmc
There was an article on Certcities in which the author suggested MS adopt CompTIA A+ as another requirement to MCDST. A Help Desk person is not much use if they can't troubleshoot hardware issues. I highly doubt MS will develop their own hardware certification as A+ is already internationally recognized.

Does MCDST cover basic network configuration and troubleshooting concepts?

From looking at their website, it's pretty clear to me that MS considers CompTIA's certs to be equal or lesser than their own. As A+ and Network+ together (or other possible combinations) count as an elective on the MCSA track - MCDST fulfills this same requirement.

Short answer - MS should, but they won't. They've already assigned A+ somewhat equal footing with one of their own (new) tests.

MCDST networking questions? Learn what you can about DNS, IE config and DHCP/ipconfig usage.

afalbrig

2004-03-08, 1:38 am

quote:
Originally posted by tusi2
My MCSA friend told me that the tests were easy, and that I should just take them cold. I had never taken an MS test before, and was only A+ certified. I signed up to take both tests back to back. Took the XP test first... scored a 783 while I needed a 700 to pass. I found the Apps test to be a bit harder, but perhaps that was because I have more experience with working with just NT. The tests were heavy on: file permissions, DNS, and scenario-based tech support questions. I thought the test was quite interesting, but if you already have your MCSA, and really have the knowledge to back it up, MCDST should be cake for you.

I do have MCSA, but it's in Win2000. I have worked on XP boxes before, and it's a lot like Win2000, but I can't say I'm familiar with every little new feature, and I'm wondering if that might trip me up. I'll just have to take a look at some XP materials and give it a try.

isles1

2004-03-08, 9:27 am

quote:
Originally posted by afalbrig
I do have MCSA, but it's in Win2000. I have worked on XP boxes before, and it's a lot like Win2000, but I can't say I'm familiar with every little new feature, and I'm wondering if that might trip me up. I'll just have to take a look at some XP materials and give it a try.

You need specific XP knowledge. Looking over materials, coupled with a decent amount of configuring the user experience (and knowing different ways to do the same thing) will get you through the exams.

IMHO, if you work with XP on a very regular basis, you do not need to study. A simple review of the objectives that you are weak in will sufice.

shahrial

2004-03-08, 11:13 am

quote:
Originally posted by JimJohnson
I'm one of those that got the MCDST by taking the beta exams. It's my first Charter membership. It's actually motivating me to take my 70-218 to finish my MCSA. If anyone has any questions, I'd be glad to answer em if I can. Good luck to all!

- JJ

Like you, I took the beta exams. It was like a game to me. Best part is getting certified for free.

For those who are planning to take it, most of the good advice had been said. Do read-up on troubleshooting email clients (such as Outlook and Outlook Express too.) There are a few questions on those too. Good Luck.

moderators

2004-08-12, 1:57 am

this cert is best

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